No Mr Modi, Sardar Patel never shared your views on India

[Bang Galore]

He went to jail probably thinking that it's a small sacrifice to make to become the first Prime minister of India.....

Ya right. When he went to jail, he probably had no idea whether India would get independence. I have no issue with criticism of the Nehru-Gandhi family post Nehru, they deserve some of it. However while Nehru was certainly not perfect, to call that man a traitor is to be cussed beyond sense. Tasteless & juvenile.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Ya right. When he went to jail, he probably had no idea whether India would get independence. I have no issue with criticism of the Nehru-Gandhi family post Nehru, they deserve some of it. However while Nehru was certainly not perfect, to call that man a traitor is to be cussed beyond sense. Tasteless & juvenile.

The Partition of India was due to Nehru and Jinnah....
Jinnah is naturally considered a hero in Pakistan but how can Nehru be considered a hero in India.....

 

[gslv]

The Partition of India was due to Nehru and Jinnah....
Jinnah is naturally considered a hero in Pakistan but how can Nehru be considered a hero in India.....

but one thing to be honest, partition was one of the best thing happened to India. why to live with those people who dont want to live with us.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

No, Uniform Civil Code is one thing.

1. Shah Bano case stands out very prominently.

2. Even if there is no Uniform Civil Code, in the current Muslim Personal Laws, modifications have not been made to ensure proper alimony and separation standards that are enjoyed by Indian women of other faiths.

3. Inheritance laws for Indian Muslim women are pathetic compared to what other Indian women enjoy.

4. Government of India coming out with gimmicks like Super 30 like coaching for Muslim kids only.

5. GoI coming out with issues of Muslim under trials instead of raising issues of under trials of all faiths

All these are simply pandering for votes. Things that Gandhi, Nehru or Patel would never have done.
he
The bunkum about Muslims deciding at their own time as mentioned by bang galore is correct. Left to it, they would never, just as Hindus would have never agreed to reform - reforms were forced on them.
Its not about buying RSS's concept of Muslims as enemies. Its about having some semblance of unanimity in the country.
These come at the top of the mind at the first thought.

a) Personal law in all forms should necessarily be within the community leaders of those faiths. You, some rich brat from Bangalore can sit on a high horse and talk about Shah Bano case and what not. Those legislations were not challenged even under BJP rule for a reason. In the end, the concept of a forward looking community must be demanded and created through the internal struggles of the muslims themselves- not us

b)'Super 30' is a gimmick? Considering that what the govt needs to do is promote the idea of secular education to make conventional fields attractive to them, why would you have a problem with that unless it's out of
malignance?

c) Under-trials, especially in terror cases is not a wrong decision- Hindus have never been active in terrorism per se except in exceptional cases and asking for those cases to be handled with sensitivity cannot be faulted. 

Shrewd maybe but neither conscionable or correct. The nonsense spewed out that the Muslim community will decide when they are ready, is just that, nonsense. That simply won't happen. Hindus might have been practicing Sati even today had they been given a choice over the matter.



That's not entirely correct. While most will not be drastically effected by it, there will always be an impact of such Un-secular behaviour. It both allows the BJP & others to get away with far more communal stuff as well as points to pseudo secular version of secularism being practiced and allows fora more communal agenda to be brought into play. No one is okay with it, certainly not those who see this behaviour as proof of false secularism. Allowing such a narrative to flourish over such absurd largesse which really are lollypops to the muslim community risks creating larger communal narratives based on such silly stuff.

Oh great wisom, except that your idea that muslims alone are 'backward' is stupid. Hindus also show several such traits of 'backwardness'- the rich educated and urban Indian is the exception not the rule. The Khap Panchayats of Rajasthan and the rural areas of any Indian state will show large scale existence of Backward thinking. In the 1960s caste distinctions in Hinduism was so great that brahmans even in urban cities would eat food only when they themselves made it. If Hindus have changed, why wouldn't the muslims then?

When you talk about 'unsecular' behavior you talk about the Haj- yeah well then think of the Kumbh Melas, annual Vaishno Devi treks and zillions of other events where Indian govt organizes and provides for security and living facilities? How many times over these muslim dole does that cost? You ask for subsidies for Haj cut down? In your 'secular' traditions ask for those facilities to be taken off too. 

The Partition of India was due to Nehru and Jinnah....
Jinnah is naturally considered a hero in Pakistan but how can Nehru be considered a hero in India.....

Oh an the brilliant leadership of veer savarkar and hindu right had a fat chance of leading us to freedom as a 'united' India? You guys didn't contribute even a whit to the independence movement and attacked the muslims repeatedly - you made Jinnah more powerful and so you were responsible for partition.

 

[oFFbEAT]

but one thing to be honest, partition was one of the best thing happened to India. why to live with those people who dont want to live with us.

I've heard this argument many times before but still can't understand why it's OK to give away Indian land to appease those who don't want to be part of India....

By your logic, India should give away Kashmir and parts of N.E India as well....

 

[gslv]

I've heard this argument many times before but still can't understand why it's OK to give away Indian land to appease those who don't want to be part of India....

By your logic, India should give away Kashmir and parts of N.E India as well....

it is once in a lifetime thing. once u had it, u had it. no more demand. if any other person wants to go, let them. but if they want a chunk of our land, shoot them. btw don't u think that it is better that those FATA regions are not under our administration. who want those ppl. good for nothing.

 

[Bang Galore]

a) Personal law in all forms should necessarily be within the community leaders of those faiths. You, some rich brat from Bangalore can sit on a high horse and talk about Shah Bano case and what not. Those legislations were not challenged even under BJP rule for a reason. In the end, the concept of a forward looking community must be demanded and created through the internal struggles of the muslims themselves- not us

Such a lot of garbage. The supreme Court ruled, the Congress government bent over backwards to change it. One of the Congress's top ministers Arif Mohammed Khan resigned over that. Rajiv Gandhi then went on to open the locks at the disputed structure in Ayodhya & the rest is history. The BJP can't do it because they don't want anymore of anti-Muslim tag than they already have. As I said before, Sati would still have been practiced if community leaders were allowed to decide.

Oh great wisom, except that your idea that muslims alone are 'backward' is stupid. Hindus also show several such traits of 'backwardness'- the rich educated and urban Indian is the exception not the rule. The Khap Panchayats of Rajasthan and the rural areas of any Indian state will show large scale existence of Backward thinking. In the 1960s caste distinctions in Hinduism was so great that brahmans even in urban cities would eat food only when they themselves made it. If Hindus have changed, why wouldn't the muslims then?

When you talk about 'unsecular' behavior you talk about the Haj- yeah well then think of the Kumbh Melas, annual Vaishno Devi treks and zillions of other events where Indian govt organizes and provides for security and living facilities? How many times over these muslim dole does that cost? You ask for subsidies for Haj cut down? In your 'secular' traditions ask for those facilities to be taken off too.

The problem with being over the top is you simply don't understand what arguments bother whom, I believe that any & all largesse based on religious grounds is anti-secular. Your argument though would have been made more correctly on Kailash Manasoravar subsidies, not on events happening within India. Even cricket matches & rock concerts get police protection & arrangements & there is tourism involved.

My point is that the reason we have this ridiculous things(like subsidies for Hindu pilgrimages) is because after giving the Haj subsidy, it makes it very difficult for the government to dismiss any other imbecilic claim for more such crap. That is tax money we are talking about and there are better things that it can be spent on. I think the khap panchayats should be dealt in the same way. I certainly don't support your argument that they should be allowed to do things their own way as their community leaders want.


You also talk about Hindus changing. Caste discrimination laws exist, no one made your argument that such laws should be scrapped and people should do so of their own free will. That is not how it works, in the U.S., in South Africa & in India and elsewhere. That is why we are supposed to be a nation of laws. Whether individuals change over time is their issue, whether they be allowed to practice idiotic behaviour that effects the rights of Indian citizens is another matter. The last I saw, Muslim women were still full Indian citizens.

 

[oFFbEAT]

it is once in a lifetime thing. once u had it, u had it. no more demand. if any other person wants to go, let them. but if they want a chunk of our land, shoot them. btw don't u think that it is better that those FATA regions are not under our administration. who want those ppl. good for nothing.

These things can never be a 'one time only' thing buddy.....
why do you think countries like China, Russia etc. suppress their separatist movements with such strong hand?.......because, once you give in to such demands, it will never stop......why do you think Kashmir is still an issue????

 

[bronxbull]

A man who went to jail many times for India's freedom is called a traitor by those enjoying the very freedoms that Nehru worked so hard to pass on. The irony. And the pathetic level of discourse.

Please sir,India would have obtained its freedom one way or the other with or without Nehru.

I respect Nehru because his silly ego won us partition and we got rid of a lot of unwanted baggage.

 

[Bang Galore]

Please sir,India would have obtained its freedom one way or the other with or without Nehru.

I respect Nehru because his silly ego won us partition and we got rid of a lot of unwanted baggage.

Maybe but he still fought for it and Sardar Patel was his home minister. Contrary to what you believe, Home Ministers dont just do whatever they want.

 

[bronxbull]

i am not believing that but in this case it is proven what wanted to do what

 

[oFFbEAT]

Please sir,India would have obtained its freedom one way or the other with or without Nehru.

I respect Nehru because his silly ego won us partition and we got rid of a lot of unwanted baggage.

What do you do to get rid of 'unwanted baggage' in your house.....partition your house to keep the baggage separate or throw them out of your house.......

 

[bronxbull]

no,this is better,
else lot of innocents ll die

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Such a lot of garbage. The supreme Court ruled, the Congress government bent over backwards to change it. One of the Congress's top ministers Arif Mohammed Khan resigned over that. Rajiv Gandhi then went on to open the locks at the disputed structure in Ayodhya & the rest is history. The BJP can't do it because they don't want anymore of anti-Muslim tag than they already have. As I said before, Sati would still have been practiced if community leaders were allowed to decide.




The problem with being over the top is you simply don't understand what arguments bother whom, I believe that any & all largesse based on religious grounds is anti-secular. Your argument though would have been made more correctly on Kailash Manasoravar subsidies, not on events happening within India. Even cricket matches & rock concerts get police protection & arrangements & there is tourism involved.

My point is that the reason we have this ridiculous things(like subsidies for Hindu pilgrimages) is because after the executive has giving the Haj subsidy, it makes it very difficult for the government to dismiss any other imbecilic claim for more such crap. That is tax money we are talking about and there are better things that it can be spent on. I think the khap panchayats should be dealt in the same way. I certainly don't support your argument that they should be allowed to do things their own way as their community leaders want.


You also talk about Hindus changing. Caste discrimination laws exist, no one made your argument that such laws should be scrapped and people should do so of their own free will. That is not how it works, in the U.S., in South Africa & in India and elsewhere. That is why we are supposed to be a nation of laws. Whether individuals change over time is their issue, whether they be allowed to practice idiotic behaviour that effects the rights of Indian citizens is another matter. The last I saw, Muslim women were still full Indian citizens.

No- YOU are full of garbage. Do you even know the relationship between the judiciary and executive? You're full of uneducated drivel.You jump up and down on Shah Bano, do you know that that was not the first time legislative action was used to override judicial decisions? Ask BJP why their hearts bleeds so much when Shah Bano case (10% of population) when the same instrument was used to annual right to property (previously a fundamental right that affected 100% of population). Of course you won't oz you don't know anything about these things to start with.

And don't quibble- the cost of 10 million people in any Indian event will always outstrip anything that Haj pays for.

 

[Bang Galore]

No- YOU are full of garbage.

Reduced to this, are you?

Do you even know the relationship between the judiciary and executive? You're full of uneducated drivel.You jump up and down on Shah Bano, do you know that that was not the first time legislative action was used to override judicial decisions? Ask BJP why their hearts bleeds so much when Shah Bano case (10% of population) when the same instrument was used to annual right to property (previously a fundamental right that affected 100% of population). Of course you won't oz you don't know anything about these things to start with.

I can do without your certification, I find your insistence on making this personal , extremely distasteful. We aren't talking about other legislation, we are talking about this specific instance where the legislative action was done for very cynical, self serving political gains. Though the backlash ensured that there was only more stupidity from the RG led government on the Ayodhya issue. You are free to disagree, there is no reason that I or anyone else needs to agree with you. After all, the main Muslim face in that government who defended the SC judgement did resign in protest.

And don't quibble- the cost of 10 million people in any Indian event will always outstrip anything that Haj pays for.

Doesn't matter, it is still in India. There is a difference between arranging security for a rock concert in India and paying to attend one abroad. Feel free to disagree. Move on.