No Mr Modi, Sardar Patel never shared your views on India

[Guynextdoor2]

First of all. Its almost guaranteed that Sardar Patel would not have liked setting up of such a massive statue in India. He would have preferred something more tangibly useful like a Hospital or a University.

Nonetheless to my mind why this is important now is that setting up Sardar Patel statue as a tourist magnet and something that is actively promoted by a Government(Gujarat) would bring in a counter narrative that the Congress has been feeding Indians for decades.
To my mind - as in the mind of millions of others - Congress now stands for twisted secularism. This twisted secularism is nothing but communalism, wherein Congress panders to one religious group and deliberately incites another religious group to get electoral gains. Votebank politics and 'politics of Fear' of a particular kind.

The meaning of the word itself has changed because of these actions
This is not the secularism. Secularism as envisioned and practiced by the likes of Gandhi, Nehru or Patel.

Highlighting Patel brings in a counter narrative of what secularism is truly about.
It brings intangible benefits to the kind of political and social discourse that takes place in this country. And no Hospital, no University could have done that.

Maybe you guys should stop pulling this stuff out of your @$$. If Patel indeed had been the PM of INdia or, had even lived longer as HM than the 3 years post independence that he did, he would have DEFINITELY uprooted the RSS. He hated them, hated modi types and their ilk and would have seen them to prison. His 'conternarrative' was always exacltly aligned to Congress, was always loyal to Gandhiji and no matter what sort of BS you guys like to speculate, he was completely ok with giving up the PM post to Nehru since that was Gandhiji's decision. This entire debate is futtile and BS.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

I do not think so. The statue will attract tourists in their thousands, just as it will attract ice-cream wallas, balloon wallas and channa wallas . That is hardly what the Sardar needs (or would have wanted). There is an university town called Vallabh Vidyanagar next to Anand in Gujrat. Its famous for two things: the Colleges there as well as the Amul Dairy nearby. There also happens to be a memorial to the Sardar there; elegantly small but informative about Sardar as well as his brother Vithalbhai. No tamasha; least of all one orchestrated by any politician. Its relevant to anybody who wants to know more about him sans the tamasha.
And before I forget; even Vallabh Vidyanagar is still a living testament and memorial to Vallabhbhai even now. Trust politicians to fight like bloody mongrels on people who were part of our history and heritage. There is a surfeit of Gandhi (Mohandas, I mean) as it is, apart from Nehru adorning every sarkari name-board as it is. What difference has that made to me as an Indian citizen after a point? I know that Gandhi-baba's face is printed on currency notes and (in the famous words of Munnabhai); he is responsible for one more dry-day in India! Have any of the multitude of Gandhi statues contributed anything positive? Or the fact that there is a J.N. Road in every city and town in India? Just crass symbolism; that Indians love to lap up. So Modi is dishing out even more of it, to a foolish janta.
Will the biggest Statue of the Sardar radiate more knowledge, information and awareness about him?
Just as another asinine project to build a Shivaji Statue in the sea of Bombay will provide a better living to some batata-wada wallas and bhel-puri wallas.

If that is what you are looking for, you'll be sure to get it.
Guaranteed....

And additionally...expect great 'tourist' destinations (I Mean both statues) to quickly become dirty and badly managed like all our memorials (one thinks of charminar & several such places).

 

[Capt.Popeye]

First of all. Its almost guaranteed that Sardar Patel would not have liked setting up of such a massive statue in India. He would have preferred something more tangibly useful like a Hospital or a University.

Nonetheless to my mind why this is important now is that setting up Sardar Patel statue as a tourist magnet and something that is actively promoted by a Government(Gujarat) would bring in a counter narrative that the Congress has been feeding Indians for decades.
To my mind - as in the mind of millions of others - Congress now stands for twisted secularism. This twisted secularism is nothing but communalism, wherein Congress panders to one religious group and deliberately incites another religious group to get electoral gains. Votebank politics and 'politics of Fear' of a particular kind.

The meaning of the word itself has changed because of these actions
This is not the secularism. Secularism as envisioned and practiced by the likes of Gandhi, Nehru or Patel.

Highlighting Patel brings in a counter narrative of what secularism is truly about.
It brings intangible benefits to the kind of political and social discourse that takes place in this country. And no Hospital, no University could have done that.

Well you are entitled to whatever appeals to your mind.
Now about Secularism: even Gandhi, Patel and Nehru had rather different interpretations of that that; but the word itself has been interpreted, re-interpreted, used and mis-used so many times by so many people so as to mean so many things and also thus be rendered some what meaningless.

From your post; I gather that you will find it easier to travel to the Statue than to Vallabh Vidyanagar. I've been to Vallabh Vidyanagar a couple of times and will be inclined to re-visit that place again, very easily. My inclination towards channa-wallas, balloon wallas and bhel-puri wallas is less than towards searching out who the Sardar really was.
But then; that is what appeals to my mind.

 

[Contrarian]

Maybe you guys should stop pulling this stuff out of your @$$. If Patel indeed had been the PM of INdia or, had even lived longer as HM than the 3 years post independence that he did, he would have DEFINITELY uprooted the RSS. He hated them, hated modi types and their ilk and would have seen them to prison. His 'conternarrative' was always exacltly aligned to Congress, was always loyal to Gandhiji and no matter what sort of BS you guys like to speculate, he was completely ok with giving up the PM post to Nehru since that was Gandhiji's decision. This entire debate is futtile and BS.

Yes, he was always aligned to Gandhi. But Gandhi and Nehru practiced fair treatment and true secularism, not the kind of politics that Congress has done over the last few decades and continues to do so. 

Well you are entitled to whatever appeals to your mind.
Now about Secularism: even Gandhi, Patel and Nehru had rather different interpretations of that that; but the word itself has been interpreted, re-interpreted, used and mis-used so many times by so many people so as to mean so many things and also thus be rendered some what meaningless.

From your post; I gather that you will find it easier to travel to the Statue than to Vallabh Vidyanagar. I've been to Vallabh Vidyanagar a couple of times and will be inclined to re-visit that place again, very easily. My inclination towards channa-wallas, balloon wallas and bhel-puri wallas is less than towards searching out who the Sardar really was.
But then; that is what appeals to my mind.

I deliberately used the phrase 'to my mind' to imply my own opinion and not try to pass it off as a statement of fact.
We can agree to disagree.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

Yes, he was always aligned to Gandhi. But Gandhi and Nehru practiced fair treatment and true secularism, not the kind of politics that Congress has done over the last few decades and continues to do so.

But that's not the implication modi is drawing isn't he? The entire stunt is to prove that Nehru Gandhis were viscerally jealous of Patel and somehow schemed him out of his destiny. Fact is Patel and Nehru could get along with each other and had great respect for each other. I think Patel thought Nehru was too theoretical and Nehru thought that Patel needed to be more 'idealistic'. These kinds of controversies are expected and in no way indicate a split camp. Besides, no matter what BJP tries to say, no matter what Nehru's shortfalls---he won elections again and again and again till his death, indicating that he enjoyed people's confidence. In any case India doesn't have a presidential system- the party has to decide who becomes PM and this was their choice. So 'outside' parties have no business criticizing it. This whole exercise is hogwash.

 

[gslv]

[quote="[Bregs], post: 4918876, member: 148509"
Patel was no bigot and certainly not the anti-Muslim (though my uncles will be horrified to be told this) figure that those who lionize him for this reason seem to believe. He was instrumental, according to Zakaria, in giving Indian Muslims the right to proselytize and convert Hindus to Islam.


Read more at: http://www.firstpost.com/politics/n...-on-india-1208885.html?utm_source=ref_article[/quote]

this sentence sums up the mindset of the Anti-Hindu Bigots con-gressis. Shameless sickulars.

 

[Contrarian]

But that's not the implication modi is drawing isn't he? The entire stunt is to prove that Nehru Gandhis were viscerally jealous of Patel and somehow schemed him out of his destiny. Fact is Patel and Nehru could get along with each other and had great respect for each other. I think Patel thought Nehru was too theoretical and Nehru thought that Patel needed to be more 'idealistic'. These kinds of controversies are expected and in no way indicate a split camp. Besides, no matter what BJP tries to say, no matter what Nehru's shortfalls---he won elections again and again and again till his death, indicating that he enjoyed people's confidence. In any case India doesn't have a presidential system- the party has to decide who becomes PM and this was their choice. So 'outside' parties have no business criticizing it. This whole exercise is hogwash.

And where do you find me disagreeing with this part.
This is completely true.

I used the word counter narrative did I not?
BJP and Modi are trying to distort Patel's legacy. However since Congress has moved away from Nehru's ideals and practices and still try to pass everything off in his name, BJP is trying the same trick.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

But that's not the implication modi is drawing isn't he? The entire stunt is to prove that Nehru Gandhis were viscerally jealous of Patel and somehow schemed him out of his destiny. Fact is Patel and Nehru could get along with each other and had great respect for each other. I think Patel thought Nehru was too theoretical and Nehru thought that Patel needed to be more 'idealistic'. These kinds of controversies are expected and in no way indicate a split camp. Besides, no matter what BJP tries to say, no matter what Nehru's shortfalls---he won elections again and again and again till his death, indicating that he enjoyed people's confidence. In any case India doesn't have a presidential system- the party has to decide who becomes PM and this was their choice. So 'outside' parties have no business criticizing it. This whole exercise is hogwash.

The parties choice at that time of PM was not Nehru but Patel , only Gandhi proposed Nehru's name and forced to accept it.
No matter what modi says it was a fact that The Congress deliberately hid the legacy of likes of Patel and Netaji. It wired that they found a new love of Patel when Modi says something?
Mr Patel made sure none of his son or daughter enjoyed political mileage or benefit because of him, which the congress party leadership lakes right from the Independence.
As Capt Popeye says Patel as a grande figure rather than a statue would be nice.

 

[Capt.Popeye]

And where do you find me disagreeing with this part.
This is completely true.

I used the word counter narrative did I not?
BJP and Modi are trying to distort Patel's legacy. However since Congress has moved away from Nehru's ideals and practices and still try to pass everything off in his name, BJP is trying the same trick.

As I said earlier trust the mongrel politicians (of all hues and parties) to fight over things like this and trust the stupid janta to lap it all up.
The tragedy of it all is that there is no "real inheritor" of Patel's Legacy (or Waris) so all kinds of pretenders, frauds and charlatans (past and present) are seeking to usurp it and then wave it around triumphantly like a "parcham" or flag. And a good lot of us even lack the sense to see through that subterfuge.

 

[Guynextdoor2]

And where do you find me disagreeing with this part.
This is completely true.

I used the word counter narrative did I not?
BJP and Modi are trying to distort Patel's legacy. However since Congress has moved away from Nehru's ideals and practices and still try to pass everything off in his name, BJP is trying the same trick.

And what are these 'great sins'? That we didn't implement Uniform Civil Code? That we spend some money on Haj? The stand of the government is that this is a decision that the muslim community has to take when it is ready, and it is a shrewd one. You aren't getting the bigger picture of how irrelevant these arguments are. Before 1947 when muslims were a good 40% of Indian pop, an organization like the RSS could flourish because the pop of the other community was truly substantial. Come 2013, these jokers haven't understood that after 1947 that community has dropped down to some 10%. To rant the same nonsense that was said pre 1947 thinking that hindus are sissies and will want 'protection' from these enemies by turning to BJP is the stupidity. BJP should have reinvented itself as a non communal organization taking into account post 1947 realities. They didn't do that and are still trying whip up the imaginary enemy. Indian's don't even bother with so called 'big' largesses that are supposed to be given to muslim communities and are actually ok with it. 

The parties choice at that time of PM was not Nehru but Patel , only Gandhi proposed Nehru's name and forced to accept it.
No matter what modi says it was a fact that The Congress deliberately hid the legacy of likes of Patel and Netaji. It wired that they found a new love of Patel when Modi says something?
Mr Patel made sure none of his son or daughter enjoyed political mileage or benefit because of him, which the congress party leadership lakes right from the Independence.
As Capt Popeye says Patel as a grande figure rather than a statue would be nice.

No- if the Party president suggests an alternative and is accepted by the person concerned it's just fine. And before you spill more BS, unlike Bose, whose candidature for the Presidency of the Party session was also opposed by Gandhi, Patel chose to accept the decision of his leader. Rest of your post is BS.

 

[Bang Galore]

And what are these 'great sins'? That we didn't implement Uniform Civil Code? That we spend some money on Haj? The stand of the government is that this is a decision that the muslim community has to take when it is ready, and it is a shrewd one.

Shrewd maybe but neither conscionable or correct. The nonsense spewed out that the Muslim community will decide when they are ready, is just that, nonsense. That simply won't happen. Hindus might have been practicing Sati even today had they been given a choice over the matter.

Indian's don't even bother with so called 'big' largesses that are supposed to be given to muslim communities and are actually ok with it.

That's not entirely correct. While most will not be drastically effected by it, there will always be an impact of such Un-secular behaviour. It both allows the BJP & others to get away with far more communal stuff as well as points to pseudo secular version of secularism being practiced and allows fora more communal agenda to be brought into play. No one is okay with it, certainly not those who see this behaviour as proof of false secularism. Allowing such a narrative to flourish over such absurd largesse which really are lollypops to the muslim community risks creating larger communal narratives based on such silly stuff.

 

[Contrarian]

And what are these 'great sins'? That we didn't implement Uniform Civil Code? That we spend some money on Haj? The stand of the government is that this is a decision that the muslim community has to take when it is ready, and it is a shrewd one. You aren't getting the bigger picture of how irrelevant these arguments are. Before 1947 when muslims were a good 40% of Indian pop, an organization like the RSS could flourish because the pop of the other community was truly substantial. Come 2013, these jokers haven't understood that after 1947 that community has dropped down to some 10%. To rant the same nonsense that was said pre 1947 thinking that hindus are sissies and will want 'protection' from these enemies by turning to BJP is the stupidity. BJP should have reinvented itself as a non communal organization taking into account post 1947 realities. They didn't do that and are still trying whip up the imaginary enemy. Indian's don't even bother with so called 'big' largesses that are supposed to be given to muslim communities and are actually ok with it. 

No, Uniform Civil Code is one thing.

1. Shah Bano case stands out very prominently.

2. Even if there is no Uniform Civil Code, in the current Muslim Personal Laws, modifications have not been made to ensure proper alimony and separation standards that are enjoyed by Indian women of other faiths.

3. Inheritance laws for Indian Muslim women are pathetic compared to what other Indian women enjoy.

4. Government of India coming out with gimmicks like Super 30 like coaching for Muslim kids only.

5. GoI coming out with issues of Muslim under trials instead of raising issues of under trials of all faiths

All these are simply pandering for votes. Things that Gandhi, Nehru or Patel would never have done.

The bunkum about Muslims deciding at their own time as mentioned by bang galore is correct. Left to it, they would never, just as Hindus would have never agreed to reform - reforms were forced on them.
Its not about buying RSS's concept of Muslims as enemies. Its about having some semblance of unanimity in the country.
These come at the top of the mind at the first thought.

 

[oFFbEAT]

Don't know exactly what views of Modi, Sardar Patel would not agree with........but he would be ashamed to call himself a Congressi today if he were alive......

There is a deliberate attempt in congress to highlight only those figures who are related to Nehru family.....as if the Congress Party is a private property of the Nehru family.....
The Congressis are creating such a hue and cry today but it's only because of Modi they're forced to discuss Sardar Patel......they're angry because Mody is trying to shift the focus to the real heroes of Congress from traitors like Nehru and his 'legacy'....

 

[Bang Galore]

.
The Congressis are creating such a hue and cry today but it's only because of Modi they're forced to discuss Sardar Patel......they're angry because Mody is trying to shift the focus to the real heroes of Congress from traitors like Nehru and his 'legacy'....

A man who went to jail many times for India's freedom is called a traitor by those enjoying the very freedoms that Nehru worked so hard to pass on. The irony. And the pathetic level of discourse.

 

[oFFbEAT]

A man who went to jail many times for India's freedom is called a traitor by those enjoying the very freedoms that Nehru worked so hard to pass on. The irony. And the pathetic level of discourse.

He went to jail probably thinking that it's a small sacrifice to make to become the first Prime minister of India.....