No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[Kompromat]

Sir, is such an option indeed on the table for PAF or is it your assumption based on Sino-pak relationships? And assuming we do then, what kind of expertise or knowledge could we bring to such a project?

There is certainly chatter among the blue caps in regards to a strategic induction of a 5th gen platform. My hunch is that Indian Rafale is going to be delayed and won't arrive in full strength before 2022-23. PAF will mitigate the threat by procuring surplus F-16s in numbers then inducting them after MLU. This will boost PAF's fighting abilities, morale and would take burden off the JF-17s so the PAF would seek to develop it much more vigorously in further blocks. PAF in my opinion wants to have as many F-16s as it can get to replace F-7Ps while the JF-17 will replace the Mirages. More F-16s also add more capability to the JF-17s when flying in a team. Together they can take care of anything IAF has to throw including the Rafale.

If my assessment is correct then, PAF would save up (good if more JFT, Mushak exports come along) to opt for project the 31001 instead of the J-10B/C.

 

[RAMPAGE]

If my assessment is correct then, PAF would save up (good if more JFT, Mushak exports come along) to opt for project the 31001 instead of the J-10B/C.

What's with the fascination with J-31 ???

Why not jump in with the Koreans or the Turks. This way, there'll be maximum Pakistani input in our NG aircraft.

 

[blain2]

Sir, how can a laymen get a better understanding of his/her Air Force if not for the paper specification? Please don't get me wrong but, we've no reliable or agreed upon measure -at least by senior mods and members like yourself- to put the capabilities of an Air Force to litmus test. While, our blind/unguided enthusiasm and patriotism can only get us so far. So, this isn't the place or time but, I'd take this opportunity to request creating a sticky thread via which one can educate oneself and have healthy discussion(s) on the subject.

In all honesty, if there is something about which I lack knowledge, and there is plenty of that, it would be much better if I held back my verdict on it. Perhaps the poster needs to expand on the statement "PAF is lagging behind". What does that mean? Are our sqns understrength? Are we lacking a very specific force wide capability for us to judge the PAF as lagging behind? Lets try to quantify that and not simply go by the fact that we have old aircraft in service since we certainly are not the only ones in the Indo-Pak context or even beyond to be in that situation. Obsolescence is part and parcel of aircraft lifecycle in any Air Force. We also should not be taken in by marketing that goes around each new weapon systems. I can very easily argue that given the iterations of upgrades and the amount of research that has gone into the F-16 program, there is nothing revolutionary in the Rafale for it to become a game changer in Pakistan's context.

One constant for us is that IAF will always have more of everything but that is something that the AHQ considers in all of its planning. Ours is primarily a defensive Air Force with a very potent offensive capability. There is significant early warning and stand-off attack capability on hand in the PAF now to do a very robust job of defending Pakistan's air space. I liken our capabilities to a decent Swiss Army knife that we have on our side and perhaps it does not have every single tool in the world, but what it does have is good enough for our region. Such is the case with the PAF. There is a thread on this forum about the Israeli Air Force chief commenting that his force will have 400% more capability at the end of 2014 than it had 2-3 years ago. All of that is being attained through integration of force multipliers and aircraft that can do a whole lot more in the air with precision attack. The situation with the PAF is not that different. As an example, each JF-17 that is inducted provides PAF with a 3 times more capable platform than the one its replacing. The doctrine is very quickly moving away from dedicated roles to multi/omni role capabilities across the spectrum for the PAF. With the existing force levels, the service (PAF) can do a whole lot more than it has been able to in the past. We have much greater threat awareness, much longer stand off attack capability and much better survivability on our aircraft. When seen as a whole, this is a very competent and effective capability.

Lastly, I would say, judging PAF's performance in light of the OBL episode alone perhaps misleads many. There are very many technical reasons for why the PAF was not there, but I know for a fact that in a force on force conflict, PAF remains as relevant as it has since the late 50s when the force started modernizing and came of age.

 

[Kompromat]

What's with the fascination with J-31 ???

Why not jump in with the Koreans or the Turks. This way, there'll be maximum Pakistani input in our NG aircraft.

None of them have real experience or working prototypes of those jets so far nor would their projects be ready when we need them to be. We can and should join Turkey's TFX program as a study partner.

 

[ziaulislam]

Nishan : Pakistan should get 1000 F-22 raptors , 200000 Leapord tanks , 50 aircraft carriers etc etc

I am pretty sure he doesnt exaggerate it this much....

 

[think@best]

Rafales aren't confirmed at all -- secondly those 180 Su-MKi aren't only for pakistan. there is a fleet bigger than indian in china.

Thanks for comments !

@Side-Winder we know, but if war happened or situation like BOMBAY TERROR ATTACK all will move towards us. My point was to maintain credible concrete balance of power between Pak-Ind ( Air Force only ) as we know we are fare behind from Indian Navy, Army and Airforce Inventory.
If we maintain PAF with high tech fighter jets we will be able to counter IND force in all three category.

 

[NALANDA]

Haha, you have to understand that India always like to compare with others, but most of the time, India is always smaller than others, especially China.

"丶勿谓言之不预 = भारतीय कि अग्रिम नहीं करते मत कहो = Indian do not say that do not advance "

What is the meaning of your profile name?

 

[Side-Winder]

Thanks for comments !

@Side-Winder we know, but if war happened or situation like BOMBAY TERROR ATTACK all will move towards us. My point was to maintain credible concrete balance of power between Pak-Ind ( Air Force only ) as we know we are fare behind from Indian Navy, Army and Airforce Inventory.
If we maintain PAF with high tech fighter jets we will be able to counter IND force in all three category.

Indians can't 'completely' evacuate all of their bases alongside china, even during war with pakistan.
India is a bigger economy with more resources than us. There will always be a technological and quantitative gap. Look at their mammoth defence budget compared to us.

We can't bring balance of power with 5 times less defence budget. But let me assure you, we are good enough to give them a bloody nose anyday!

 

[MastanKhan]

Indians can't 'completely' evacuate all of their bases alongside china, even during war with pakistan.
India is a bigger economy with more resources than us. There will always be a technological and quantitative gap. Look at their mammoth defence budget compared to us.

We can't bring balance of power with 5 times less defence budget. But let me assure you, we are good enough to give them a bloody nose anyday!

Sir,

This pakistani concept of BLOODY NOSE need to be changed----. You know what happens to the girl who gives a bloody nose to the rapists----she is molested---raped---beaten the sh-it out of her---thrashed----smashed---you name it and she gets it----.

Brutality just begins after the bloody nose----it is just the tip of the iceberg---.

 

[aliyusuf]

Sir,

This pakistani concept of BLOODY NOSE need to be changed----. You know what happens to the girl who gives a bloody nose to the rapists----she is molested---raped---beaten the sh-it out of her---thrashed----smashed---you name it and she gets it----.

Brutality just begins after the bloody nose----it is just the tip of the iceberg---.

If bloody nose is taken as the context then you are spot on ... as usual.

But I don't think Pakistan Armed Forces are so feeble in their objectives and preparations.
Here in my opinion Bloody Nose = Significantly Unacceptable Level of Losses for the aggressor (i.e. India).
India is too big with too much resources at their disposal for Pakistan to hope to attain an outright conventional military victory.

But we can make it unfeasible / impractical / painful enough, in terms of material and manpower losses, thus forcing India to abstain from implementing any of its aggression oriented objectives regarding Pakistan.

In my opinion, Pakistan is still not 100% where it needs to be (conventional capability wise) but we are well on our way in getting there.

Just my humble 2 cents.

 

[ziaulislam]

Sir,

This pakistani concept of BLOODY NOSE need to be changed----. You know what happens to the girl who gives a bloody nose to the rapists----she is molested---raped---beaten the sh-it out of her---thrashed----smashed---you name it and she gets it----.

Brutality just begins after the bloody nose----it is just the tip of the iceberg---.

the concept is valid if you have nukes..well the rapist the woman if she has a bomb??..the purpose is to have enough conventional power to stop any surgical strikes and prolong a war to such a level that might risk a nuclear war forcing both parties to reconsider war...
having said that i think army has to change is attitude and allow most of the funding to go to PAF..even if it has to decrease it no.s slightly

 

[MastanKhan]

Sirs,

This bloody nose thing---there is no reason to make these stupid statements----. Have you children seen the Inoki / akram pehalwan kushti-----if not ask your parents----.

He used to brag the same things-----Inoki---in turn broke his arm and the rest is history---------.

 

[aliyusuf]

Sirs,

This bloody nose thing---there is no reason to make these stupid statements----. Have you children seen the Inoki / akram pehalwan kushti-----if not ask your parents----.

He used to brag the same things-----Inoki---in turn broke his arm and the rest is history---------.

Sorry our opinions seem stupid to you.
But with in a discussion forum everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
You are certainly entitled to yours.
Having such an uncivil tone in reply is certainly not what I would have expected from you.
By the way Inoki had held Akram in an arm lock and the Akram foolishly tried to power his way out and in the process had his shoulder dislocated.

 

[MastanKhan]

Sorry our opinions seem stupid to you.
But with in a discussion forum everyone is entitled to his or her opinion.
You are certainly entitled to yours.
Having such an uncivil tone in reply is certainly not what I would have expected from you.
By the way Inoki had held Akram in an arm lock and the Akram foolishly tried to power his way out and in the process had his shoulder dislocated.

Hi,

You are back----it is not bear huinting season yet.

It was akram's bragging that was the more interesting part----he strutted around Inoki like you are doing---and when Inoki got him in the armhold-----aki ended up losing his limb----he was crying afterwards saying----JI PEHLaY US NaY MERI aaNKH MEIN UNGLI MaRI----PHIR US NaY MERa BaZOO TOR DaIa.

100 littar wi khaiy-----tay 100 ganday wi khaiy----hein ji phirrr uh

 

[aliyusuf]

----he strutted around Inoki like you are doing---

To whom are u comparing Akram's neanderthal like bragging to?
You could have made your reply without the ... the phrase in quotation ....
Is it really in good spirit or taste?
I fail to see where I have strutted anything?
I thought we were having a discussion here and everyone was entitled to post and discuss in a sober and amicable manner.
But phrases like "You are back----it is not bear huinting season yet" really reeks of a condescending mindset.
Well Sir this is the last time I am responding to you and I will not make the mistake of quoting to any of your posts again.