No J-10B for PAF | A.C Khalid, calls for a focus on 5th generation platform instead.

[Kompromat]

Scrap?

The F-35 will mature into a great platform, please mark my words.

Yes - Scrap.

Britain 'should consider scrapping F-35 stealth fighter' - Telegraph

MP blasts F-35 jet deal - The West Australian

 

[VCheng]

Yes - Scrap.

Britain 'should consider scrapping F-35 stealth fighter' - Telegraph

MP blasts F-35 jet deal - The West Australian

Scrapping a deal is a very different meaning than calling the F-35 scrap. Like I said, this plane will mature very nicely. Undoubtedly.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Scrapping a deal is a very different meaning than calling the F-35 scrap. Like I said, this plane will mature very nicely. Undoubtedly.

You are right, it will mature. But that will take some time, quite possibly 8, 10, or more years. For now, it's too expensive to be justified. One could argue buying an F16 Block61, would be better.

 

[VCheng]

You are right, it will mature. But that will take some time, quite possibly 8, 10, or more years. For now, it's too expensive to be justified. One could argue buying an F16 Block61, would be better.

Either more F-16s, or the J10B or similar Chinese planes. Whatever is on offer for PAF, including financing, right?

 

[Indus Falcon]

Either more F-16s, or the J10B or similar Chinese planes. Whatever is on offer for PAF, including financing, right?

Inducting a new platform is never easy. You always have teething issues. Just as an example look at the 777. The operators are minting money right now. But back in the mid/ late 90's it was called the "trouble seven."

Secondly, the J-10b sits somewhere slightly above, a JF17 and well below a Blk52+. In terms of capability, it does not offer a lot more than the JF17 to justify it's induction.

Our teething issues were quite limited with the JF17 because we were involved in it from day one, and besides that we are manufacturing it as well.

In my opinion, (which could be severely flawed since I'm not an air force guy), Pakistan should stick to the F16 - JF17 combo and look for a 5th gen aircraft.

TO finance additional F16's should not be an issue, should Pakistan play it's cards right, and common sense prevails. The US could always do it with soft loans / grants, in the interest of keeping the line open, and maintaining good ties with Pakistan.

 

[Indus Falcon]

Can you tell me that were the earlier 50 JF-17s were Chinese funded and will the next 50 will again be Chinese funded?

Nishan, I have really come to enjoy your posts. During a stressful day, your posts can be be very helpful. Thanks!!

Dear Mods, Kindly do not ban him this time.

 

[sancho]

As you know PAC has 58% share in the JFT .That means profits will be shared in that order. I think it would be fantastic not only for PAC but also for JFT as it would boost its prospects of export.

In JFT, but also in FC1? JFT is basically the export version, which Pakistan has co-developed including the customisations with avionics from Pakistan and under requirements of PAF. But FC 1 is meant to be the Chinese version and why would they pay money to Pakistan, for a fighter that they don't just produce under licence, but as the prime manufacturer, which includes mainly Chinese techs and weapons anyway?
Besides I don't think that it makes any financial or operational sense for China to go for FC 1, when it means to add a new type of fighter, with different radar, engines and spares. Adding more J10s would be the more logical and most likely even cost-effective choice, obviously without sharing any paymeants with Pakistan either.

 

[Bilal.]

@sancho jft/fc-1 was co-developed and any export of either jft configuration or fc-1 will follow revenue sharing model. That's why all marketing is being done jointly.

 

[sancho]

@sancho jft/fc-1 was co-developed and any export of either jft configuration or fc-1 will follow revenue sharing model. That's why all marketing is being done jointly.

Marketing of the "JFT" for "export customers", China is not an export customer!

 

[Bilal.]

Marketing of the "JFT" for "export customers", China is not an export customer!

Oh so you are talking in case Chinese produce it for their own use? Yes in that case I dont think there will be anything paid to PAC unless there is work sharing involved.

 

[dexter]

Nishan, I have really come to enjoy your posts. During a stressful day, your posts can be be very helpful. Thanks!!

Dear Mods, Kindly do not ban him this time.

Nishan : Pakistan should get 1000 F-22 raptors , 200000 Leapord tanks , 50 aircraft carriers etc etc

 

[blain2]

Disappointed and outrage. It will leave our sky valuable for French Rafale threat.

Unfortunately PAF is lagging behind.

Not every shiny new toy is the best or the best against us. Any new system will take years to build inventory and its effective employment is an even longer endeavor. PAF is doing just fine. The high state of operational readiness and the pace of modernization within the PAF has escaped many. Most are happy comparing specifications on paper to come to negative conclusions about the PAF's capabilities yet the reality is quite different. In the new and MLU F-16s, JF-17s and AEW platforms, we have a very robust offensive/defensive capability in place.

 

[Drebin]

Not every shiny new toy is the best. PAF is doing just fine. The high state of operational readiness and the pace of modernization within the PAF has escaped many. Most are happy comparing specifications on paper to come to negative conclusions about the PAF's capabilities.

Sir, how can a laymen get a better understanding of his/her Air Force if not for the paper specification? Please don't get me wrong but, we've no reliable or agreed upon measure -at least by senior mods and members like yourself- to put the capabilities of an Air Force to litmus test. While, our blind/unguided enthusiasm and patriotism can only get us so far. So, this isn't the place or time but, I'd take this opportunity to request creating a sticky thread via which one can educate oneself and have healthy discussion(s) on the subject.

 

[ziaulislam]

Marketing of the "JFT" for "export customers", China is not an export customer!

Being a senior member I thought you would know how fiance deals works..jf-17 is joint venture between two.contractors, the Chinese if they want to, will buy it from these contractors (I.e Pac,cac) under which 58% airframe will be produced here and rest in China( even for aircarfts that are build for paf) however this is only for airframe. The avionics Chinese will have their own. Meaning only a fraction of profit (if any) will be earned by Pac,the Chinese wouldn't mind as setting another assemble line and manufacturing the half of the aircraft will cost them even more.....
A good example will be of f-16when some aircrafts flown by USAF had foreign parts under the joint venture.
However whether the chinse buy them or not is to be seen. They did made a commitment of 100 at the beginning. The only real advantage to pad will be that cost of production will go down as profit for the contractors is based upon the nos produced.

 

[Drebin]

@Drebin | F-35s are not available for PAF, We cant afford the, even if we could they are not up to the job as many nations consider to scrap it due to poor performance.

We have an option (given the economy) to become a partner in the PT-31001 program. It would have immense industrial benefits for Pakistan's aviation industry on top of its operational benefits.

Sir, is such an option indeed on the table for PAF or is it your assumption based on Sino-pak relationships? And assuming we do then, what kind of expertise or knowledge could we bring to such a project?