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No freedom of belief for muslim students in liberal secular Switzerland

oh come on bro i agree these type of people might need little bit of psychological help because they might be little bit shy of opposite gender but they are not psychopath who need to be admitted in a hospital for psychological help in a cell. don't you think its a little bit too extreme
(not defending the people who are refusing it on religious grounds but the people with social anxiety who try to avoid as much public contact as they can)


This has other basics. This is about islamist extremists coming here and thinking they can shove their way on others. Wrong tolerance is totally wrong here,

If they want stay here they have to bow 100% for our customs. If now, they have to be pushed out.

I´m against any tolerance towards enemies.
 
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This has other basics. This is about islamist extremists coming here and thinking they can shove their way on others. Wrong tolerance is totally wrong here,

If they want stay here they have to bow 100% for our customs. If now, they have to be pushed out.

I´m against any tolerance towards enemies.
totally agree with bro don't give these extremist a single inch of the ground they should learn to respect the ways of the country they are living in.
but my question still stand can morally and legally force a person to touch some one else against his or her will and consent isn't it is like a type harassment.
 
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totally agree with bro don't give these extremist a single inch of the ground they should learn to respect the ways of the country they are living in.
but my question still stand can morally and legally force a person to touch some one else against his or her will and consent isn't it is like a type harassment.

I think if you are studying in a school which runs as per the rules of the government of Switzerland, Funded by the Taxpayer of Switzerland, you have to follow the rules which are set by the school. Are these people unaware of the rule when they were seeking admission ? NO. then why did they join the school and now start going against the rules and asking for special treatment ??

THey are ethically and morally obliged to follow the law of the land and the rules set by the school they are studying. Later comes religion. Law of the land is paramount.
 
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totally agree with bro don't give these extremist a single inch of the ground they should learn to respect the ways of the country they are living in.
but my question still stand can morally and legally force a person to touch some one else against his or her will and consent isn't it is like a type harassment.


If they dont like it, they can still leave, cant they?
 
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There is one thing people need to understand, and that is that as a foreign citizen one cannot enter a country and expect them to adapt to your ways. Why go to a country with laws or cultures you don't like? Laws in a country are to be shaped by the citizens of that country, not foreigners.

And don't bring social anxiety into this. There is a huge difference between a mental diagnosis that a person didn't choose to suffer from (who would choose to suffer?) and someone who won't shake someone's hand because their religious character says no...
 
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i just read another thread where China has Halal banned - and no hue and cry there. But french say "no burqa" and the swiss say "hand shake".. suddenly its a big issue.

These myopic people need to embrace other cultures if they want to move to those places. else there are perfectly normal Muslims who live, embrace and thrive in any country in the world - because they have "mutual respect".

The fundamentalism starts with the mindset that "you cannot force me to follow your traditions in your country - you should change your traditions to my beliefs". And those are the real danger for even the normal muslim guy who lives in my neighborhood.

A few years back. I never thought twice inviting him over or talking about stuff with him. these days I have to think a million times.. have I offended him? neither his doing nor mine.. its the doing of these peoples victim mentality wherever they go. and they have poisoned the fabric of brotherhood in so many places.
 
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There is one thing people need to understand, and that is that as a foreign citizen one cannot enter a country and expect them to adapt to your ways. Why go to a country with laws or cultures you don't like? Laws in a country are to be shaped by the citizens of that country, not foreigners.

And don't bring social anxiety into this. There is a huge difference between a mental diagnosis that a person didn't choose to suffer from (who would choose to suffer?) and someone who won't shake someone's hand because their fantasy figure says no...

On this forum you can get in trouble for calling them a fantasy figure. :sick::disagree:

Personal experience.
 
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@Hell hound it was made a law because the immigrants protested that they wont follow a tradition of the country. no one had a to make it a law for thousands of other immigrants (who had no trouble accepting the tradition of the country they CHOSE to go to)
it was made a law because some one has to put a foot down and say, you need to respect our traditions as well and not just go on glorifying yours over everyone else's.

I am beginning to see why Trump is finding so much support at home. its a downward spiral from here.. but it all starts with simple stuff like this.
 
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http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-36382596

Switzerland: Muslim students must shake teacher's hand

Muslim students in Switzerland must shake their teacher's hand at the beginning and end of lessons, a regional authority has ruled.

A controversial exemption from the tradition had been granted for two teenage brothers whose interpretation of the Koran meant they were unwilling to touch a member of the opposite sex.

If they continue to refuse, their parents could face a fine.

The regional authority said teachers "had the right" to demand handshakes.

Country profile: Switzerland

Shaking teachers' hands as a sign of respect is a longstanding tradition in Switzerland.

When it emerged last month that a middle school had allowed two Syrian brothers aged 14 and 15 to avoid the tradition due to their religious beliefs, it sparked anational controversy.

The boys, whose father is an imam, said their faith did not allow them to shake hands with a woman who was not related to them.

Justice Minister Simonetta Sommaruga said on television that "shaking hands is part of our culture".

There are about 350,000 Muslims in Switzerland, which has a population of eight million.

Some Swiss Muslim groups said there was no religious justification for refusing to shake a female teacher's hand and urged the Swiss not to give in to extremist demands. But one Islamic organisation said a handshake between men and women was prohibited.

The family's citizenship process was halted and the migration office in Basel said it was seeking more information about the circumstances under which the boys' father's asylum request was approved.

'Relieved'
The school, in the small northern town of Therwil, had tried to find a compromise in the matter by deciding the boys should not shake hands with male or female teachers.

Later, after considerable media attention, the school turned to regional authorities to settle the matter.

The authorities said in a statement on Wednesday that "the public interest concerning gender equality as well as integration of foreigners far outweighs that concerning the freedom of belief of students".

The school said it was "relieved" at the ruling and that there was now "clarity on how to proceed".

In future, the parents or guardians of pupils in the northern canton of Basel-Country could face fines of up to 5,000 Swiss francs (£3,400; $5,000; 4,500 euros) if the pupils refuse to shake hands with a teacher.

The boys told Swiss media (in German) that "nobody could make them" shake hands with a woman, and that they "could not just delete their culture as if it were a hard drive".


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$5000 for refusing a handshake !!!!! This is the real face of liberal secularism. What prompted them to go so hard on a small minority? Its simple - liberalism is inherently an intolerant ideology. Contrary to what intellectually colonized liberals in the muslim world will have muslims believe , liberalism has some definite conditions for tolerance which is that beliefs and cultures will have to conform to liberal values of the majority - in other words they are inherently intolerant of other beliefs and values. Examples in history and now present day europe is a testimony to this fact. In this case the swiss state has actually decided that swiss beliefs of "gender equality" supersedes the right to freedom of belief of students. In other words they believe that they have the right to force down their majority liberal beliefs on the minority. SO much for tolerance and freedom of belief. Its preposterous that secular liberal west dare blame muslims for things the liberal west is actually guilty off , while muslims are in reality free from such bigotry and intolerance. Now no where in the muslim world does muslims force down Islam on the minorities. History is a proof of Islam's tolerance of other's faiths.

Its really commendable how the two syrian boys are holding an uncompromising attitude and they are so firm in their faith. May Allah (swt) strengthen their faith and keep them steadfast in the way of Islam and make life easy and comfortable for them.

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https://islamqa.info/en/21183 -
Shaking hands with a non-mahram woman




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@Zibago @haviZsultan @Kaptaan @SHK @PersonasNonGrata @madokafc @Salik @Hell hound @A.P. Richelieu @flamer84 @Steve781


OP never open new threads with such sensational titles when jihadis and islamist extremists hack off heads of seculars , liberals, people of minority sects and religions who dare to speak their minds.However poor OP gets very emotionally charged when a person from his religious affiliation is asked to wear a hijab or shake hands in the west (or non muslim majority country) ... Wondering what does that make him ... Hippocratic !? Or jihadi extremist !? Or a hipocratic jihadi extremist !? .. Any other suggestions any one

@T-Rex
 
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No, it`s not right to force anyone to shake hands. But the problem is, we take a step back and they then only really tarnish... I`m tired to be tolerant, Europe is becoming tired of this Bs, how the rising right wing parties proves. We had made many mistakes in the past, we still make mistakes in the present and we will surely make mistakes tomorrow, but don`t tell me, Europe don`t give you the chance to make a better life.
 
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@Hell hound it was made a law because the immigrants protested that they wont follow a tradition of the country. no one had a to make it a law for thousands of other immigrants (who had no trouble accepting the tradition of the country they CHOSE to go to)
it was made a law because some one has to put a foot down and say, you need to respect our traditions as well and not just go on glorifying yours over everyone else's.

I am beginning to see why Trump is finding so much support at home. its a downward spiral from here.. but it all starts with simple stuff like this.
bro its your country and your laws you can do whatever you want i have no say in it but isn't it better to not let them in the country in first place or have a strict screening process then losing your tolerance (the one of the reason you are doing better then others)

No, it`s not right to force anyone to shake hands. But the problem is, we take a step back and they then only really tarnish... I`m tired to be tolerant, Europe is becoming tired of this Bs, how the rising right wing parties proves. We had made many mistakes in the past, we still make mistakes in present and we will surely make mistakes tomorrow, but don`t tell me, Europe don`t give you the chance to make a better life.
then simply don't let them in without strict screening or don't let them in at all believe me some of these guys are so arrogant they will destroy your culture but what i am saying is tolerance and freedom is part of your culture don't let them destroy it either
 
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Imagine being offended by a simple handshake from the opposite gender. Can't believe some cults actually brainswash their followers into believing something like that is wrong.
 
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On this forum you can get in trouble for calling them a fantasy figure. :sick::disagree:

Personal experience.

well.. i was actually banned the first day i registered here because i have replied to a poster who pulled up RAW into some other issue and also because i had a display pic of akhand bharat in saffron color... the mod just sent one msg. u are talking not related to topic and your display pic is disturbing so banned. funny thing is i saw the msg only after ban was removed.. lol... and the one poster who instigated the discussion to go out of bounds was still roaming free...
 
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