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New Kashmiri Weapon Against India

I need to know one good reason, other then religion that Kashmiri's should choose Pakistan. ?

That is for the Kashmiris to decide. If they don't like the idea of joining Pakistan, so be it. But we won't know until they have been given the option.

Also, as I said before, Indians tend to view Kashmir through a tangible 'cost benefit lens'. The argument is always about Kashmiris being 'anti establishment because of a lack of development etc. (despite getting a huge amount of taxpayer subsidies and 'special status').

The reality is that the movement is ideological and about nationalism and the right for Kashmiris to themselves determine their future.
 
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I need to know one good reason, other then religion that Kashmiri's should choose Pakistan. ? Joining Pakistan will just invite more trouble for them, already a bankrupt country will not be able to provide infrastructure to them. Where as Democratic govt in Kashmir with already approved huge funds from India will do lot of Good. More over Kashmir was prosperous bec. of Indian and International tourists. Tourism is and always was biggest industry in Kashmir, and Kashmiri people know taht, they have grown up before Militancy , seeing that. Pakistan will not be able to provide similar number of Tourists (1/10th the population of India), 2. Already weak Economy 3. High inflation, 4. High Oil prices. And Forgien tourist will not take a Pakistani visa to Visit Kashmir.

And If Kashmir wants to be independent , then it would want kashmir with Pakistan to also join it to be Free, but in that case it will be Land locked between 2 Hostile countries.
With No Economy other then tourism.
So only viable solution for them is what they are doing, meaning voting and selecting Govt. and maybe seek some sought of Atonomy. as part of negotiation. Mir waiz will also be looking at settling at that eventually, today he may want to become popular. But at the end of the day do not forget he is also a politician and could be aspiring to be the CM of the state in future who knows, Indian politics have huge money mate....
and Money is above all!!

Pakistan's infrastructure is in a lot better condition than India's. This is universally known, for example the roads etc.

The only reason that India has a big economy is the size of the population. When you even things out on a km by km scale, Pakistan is easily level with India, and perhaps better, certainly for Kashmiris which is why they put the Pakistani National Anthem on their mobile phones.

But plebiscite is the way to go. Why is it that Pakistanis are all for plebiscite, and Indians are not? Do they know the Kashmiris will not choose India, or something? If so, this is a land grab. An occupation. Stealing.
 
Just had one point to make to all people who say that India does not accept the 1948 UN declaration and conduct a plebecite

Please go through the below UN resolution. It is googlable


U.N.RESOLUTION AUGUST 13, 1948

on J&K August 13, 1948

The United Nations Commission for India and Pakistan.
Having given careful consideration to the points of view expressed by the representatives of India and Pakistan regarding the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir; and
Being of the opinion that the prompt cessation of hostilities and the correction of conditions the continuance of which is likely to endanger international peace and security are essential to implementation of its endeavors to assist the Governments of India and Pakistan in effecting a final settlement of the situation;
Resolves to submit simultaneously to the Governments of India and Pakistan the following proposal:
PART I: CEASE-FIRE ORDER
A. The Governments of India and Pakistan agree that their respective High Commands will issue separately and simultaneously a cease-fire order to apply to all forces under their control and in the State of Jammu and Kashmir as of the earliest practicable date or dates to be mutually agreed upon within four days after these proposals have been accepted by both Governments.
B.The High Commands of the Indian and Pakistani forces agree to refrain from taking any measures that might augment the military potential of the forces under their control in the State of Jammu and Kashmir. ( For the purpose of these proposals forces under their control shall be considered to include all forces, organized and unorganized, fighting or participating in hostilities on their respective sides.
C.The Commanders-in-Chief of the forces of India and Pakistan shall promptly confer regarding any necessary local changes in present dispositions which may facilitate the cease-fire.
D. In its discretion and as the Commission may find practicable, the Commission will appoint military observers who, under the authority of the Commission and with the co-operation of both Commands, will supervise the observance of the cease-fire order.
E. The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan agree to appeal to their respective peoples to assist in creating and maintaining an atmosphere favourable to the promotion of further negotiations.
PART II: TRUCE AGREEMENT
Simultaneously with the acceptance of the proposal for the immediate cessation of hostilities as outlined in Part I, both the Governments accept the following principles as a basis for the formulation of a truce agreement, the details of which shall be worked out in discussion between their representatives and the Commission.
A.
1. As the presence of troops of Pakistan in the territory of the State of Jammu and Kashmir constitutes a material change in the situation since it was represented by the Government of Pakistan before the Security Council, the Government of Pakistan agrees to withdraw its troops from that State.
2. The Government of Pakistan will use its best endeavour to secure the withdrawal from the State of Jammu and Kashmir of tribesmen and Pakistani nationals not normally resident therein who have entered the State for the purpose of fighting.
3. Pending a final solution, the territory evacuated by the Pakistani troops will be administered by the local authorities under the surveillance of the commission.
B.
1.When the commission shall have notified the Government of India that the tribesmen and Pakistani nationals referred to in Part II, A, 2, hereof have withdrawn, thereby terminating the situation which was represented by the Government of India to the Security Council as having occasioned the presence of Indian forces in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, and further, that the Pakistani forces are being withdrawn from the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Government of India agrees to begin to withdraw the bulk of its forces from that State in stages to be agreed upon with the Commission.
2. Pending the acceptance of the conditions for a final settlement of the situation in the State of Jammu and Kashmir, the Indian Government will maintain within the lines existing at the moment of the cease-fire the minimum strength of its forces which in agreement with the commission are considered necessary to assist local authorities in the observance of law and order. The Commission will have observers stationed where it deems necessary.
3. The Government of India will undertake to ensure that the Government of the State of Jammu and Kashmir will take all measures within its powers to make it publicly known that peace, law and order will be safeguarded and that all human political rights will be granted.
4. Upon signature, the full text of the truce agreement or a communique containing the principles thereof as agreed upon between the two Governments and the Commission, will be made public.

PART III
The Government of India and the Government of Pakistan reaffirm their wish that the future status of the State of Jammu and Kashmir shall be determined in accordance with the will of the people and to that end, upon acceptance of the truce agreement, both Governments agree to enter into consultations with the Commission to determine fair and equitable conditions whereby such free expression will be assured.

Source: United Nations

This makes it pretty clear that pakistan needs to pull trrops out of the part of state of J&K that it controls. Then when the UN notifies India that Pakistan has done so, it falls on India to remove troops from J&K and make sure that free and fair elections are conducted there.

Anyways, now its been over 60 years from the day the declaration was made and it is a bit antiquated, but I am sure that India will still follow the declaration if Pakistan will. Still Game?
 
yea , but unline your ppl we ddint send intruders to captured kashmir. If you ddint try to captured kashmir, it will be free country then.

You started the trouble their. Read History, who send the Army first their.

As for Kashmir, kashmiri never wanted to go with PAK, So you are only dreaming.

lmao u have no clue what ur talking about
its india that has yet to let the kashmiri people choose if they want to be with pakistan or india, u know y? because india knows kashmir will choose either pakistan or become independent. plz know ur history before u spit out some krap like that.
and what evidence has india provided about the mumbai attacks???? NONE
and AS A KASHMIRI i know most kashmiris want to be with pak
 
I am aware of some resettlement in the NA's under Zia, but not in AK. Besides, there has been a huge movement of Kashmiris out of Kashmir into other parts of Pakistan as well.

You can find them all over the country.

my family is one of them =]
 
I need to know one good reason, other then religion that Kashmiri's should choose Pakistan. ? Joining Pakistan will just invite more trouble for them, already a bankrupt country will not be able to provide infrastructure to them. Where as Democratic govt in Kashmir with already approved huge funds from India will do lot of Good. More over Kashmir was prosperous bec. of Indian and International tourists. Tourism is and always was biggest industry in Kashmir, and Kashmiri people know taht, they have grown up before Militancy , seeing that. Pakistan will not be able to provide similar number of Tourists (1/10th the population of India), 2. Already weak Economy 3. High inflation, 4. High Oil prices. And Forgien tourist will not take a Pakistani visa to Visit Kashmir.

And If Kashmir wants to be independent , then it would want kashmir with Pakistan to also join it to be Free, but in that case it will be Land locked between 2 Hostile countries.
With No Economy other then tourism.
So only viable solution for them is what they are doing, meaning voting and selecting Govt. and maybe seek some sought of Atonomy. as part of negotiation. Mir waiz will also be looking at settling at that eventually, today he may want to become popular. But at the end of the day do not forget he is also a politician and could be aspiring to be the CM of the state in future who knows, Indian politics have huge money mate....
and Money is above all!!

money isnt everything
pakistan doesnt go around killing innocent kashmiris like india does
maybe its not the culture that unites us but it is the common enemy! :pakistan:
 
Just had one point to make to all people who say that India does not accept the 1948 UN declaration and conduct a plebecite

Please go through the below UN resolution. It is googlable




This makes it pretty clear that pakistan needs to pull trrops out of the part of state of J&K that it controls. Then when the UN notifies India that Pakistan has done so, it falls on India to remove troops from J&K and make sure that free and fair elections are conducted there.

Anyways, now its been over 60 years from the day the declaration was made and it is a bit antiquated, but I am sure that India will still follow the declaration if Pakistan will. Still Game?

let me ask u something
has india EVER ask the kashmiris if they want to be a part of india or not?
NO THEY HAVENT
instead they just placed a gun on our heads :angry:
u will never see this in azad kashmir :pakistan:
 
Your refusal to see the reality sitting 5000 miles away doesn't change the facts. The deterioration had set in during the Zia days. Every serious Pakistani commentator acknowledges that. The worst sectarian killings, mosque bomb blasts of rival sects, killing of Shia doctors and professionals, the Sipah-e-Sahabas, the Lashkars, The Jaishs..

Do tell me when JuD or LeT where involved in sectarian killings?

The powerful and the wealthy will likely scoot to foreign locations like you and leave the poor and the miserable more so...

I am neither powerful or wealthy nor did i "scoot to a foreign location"...i was born in the UK.


The problem with people like you is that you never learn from your failures. That is the reason for the present state of your country. You may have been "talked out" and sitting safely away in Britain now (not sure if you informed the British authorities of your activities before being "talked out") but you want other poor sods continue wasting their lives!...

Why dont you join the indian army and fight in kashmir....or is some poor sod wasting his life doing that already?

The billions on the war machine (much beyond their means) are being spent by Pakistan, not India. You have almost broken your back with this policy that is bound to fail if not failed already. You need to be "rescued" so often that even China and Saudis are no longer interested...

Count the amount of poor in india compared to pakistan...your slums are bigger then our cities.
India is just a third world country that thinks it is some sort of power........the whole world laughs at you when you turn your back.


I have more humanity than you and feel that those billions should go towards Pakistani and Indian poor instead of needlessly killing people whether Pakistanis or Indians.

Would you have a problem with india being ruled by the british just as long they spent billions on the poor?



Exactly. That is the reason we have not given in to terror and extremism coming from your side..

And thats the same reason why the kashmiris will never give in to indian terror.



You have tried that for 60 years and failed. Is that too difficult to understand! Now even your army knows it can't do it. They realized it decades back after multiple failures (and division of the country in the process) and hence the 1000 cut policy and Even that failed and many of them have realized it except the rogue elements...

Again your way off the mark......pakistan wants to bleed the indian army and it was doing fine until 9/11.....the kashmiri fighters are just waiting for the nod from the pak govt to attack the indian army.

India will not give in to terror....

So wont the kashmiris!



Doesn't matter what you think or don't think. Don't presume to speak for the Kashmiris. They are Indians.....

My family are from kashmir...both sides off the border,i have the total right to speak about kashmiris ....are you from kashmir?

Why not have a vote under the UN and see if the kashmiris want to be indian.......you know and i know what the the outcome of such a vote would be.....INDIA OUT!



No just "talk out" the others too. Let them take it out on the forums instead of the streets and forests of Kashmir.

You dont have to cross the LoC to come under artillery-motar attack....be shot at....cross minefields ect.
I have at least been there on the border and put my life at some sort of risk.......what about you,have you been to the LoC and helped the indian army...been attacked by freedom fighters?
 
Do tell me when JuD or LeT where involved in sectarian killings?

Don't change the topic. The sectarian killings were the result of the rising extremism in Pakistani society that was caused by the support to terror in Kashmir and also the Afghan struggle.

I am neither powerful or wealthy nor did i "scoot to a foreign location"...i was born in the UK.

Does that change anything?

Why dont you join the indian army and fight in kashmir....or is some poor sod wasting his life doing that already?

It is you who is advocating the continued bloodshed, not me!

Count the amount of poor in india compared to pakistan...your slums are bigger then our cities.
India is just a third world country that thinks it is some sort of power........the whole world laughs at you when you turn your back.

You are mistaken. The poverty % is similar. Yours is growing. You have a lower HDI. We are both in bad shape. At least our direction is towards betterment.

Would you have a problem with india being ruled by the british just as long they spent billions on the poor?

Irrelevant.

And thats the same reason why the kashmiris will never give in to indian terror.

No one should ever give in to terror.

Again your way off the mark......pakistan wants to bleed the indian army and it was doing fine until 9/11.....the kashmiri fighters are just waiting for the nod from the pak govt to attack the indian army.

9/11 came as a boon to Pakistan. Read up about it. It was in much worse shape before that. About to default, Musharraf shunned by everyone...

My family are from kashmir...both sides off the border,i have the total right to speak about kashmiris ....are you from kashmir?

Why not have a vote under the UN and see if the kashmiris want to be indian.......you know and i know what the the outcome of such a vote would be.....INDIA OUT!

You may be from Kashmir but you don't care for them. You want to continue their sufferings with the actions you propose.

You dont have to cross the LoC to come under artillery-motar attack....be shot at....cross minefields ect.
I have at least been there on the border and put my life at some sort of risk.......what about you,have you been to the LoC and helped the indian army...been attacked by freedom fighters?

I have been to the Wagah border. ;)

All my support to the Indian army in taking on the terrorists and saving our Kashmiri brethern from them.
 
let me ask u something
has india EVER ask the kashmiris if they want to be a part of india or not?
NO THEY HAVENT
instead they just placed a gun on our heads :angry:
u will never see this in azad kashmir :pakistan:

Captain03, i am ready to accept that there is propaganda on both sides
But all I was doing was reply to people who said India is not ready for a plebiscite only Pakistan was.

So the only reference I used was a United Nations declaration that Pakistan refers to in its propaganda.

Regarding the gun on the head, wouldnt it have been easier for India just to scrap article 370 which prohibits Indians from other states from owning land in J&K and then shift people into J & K just like china is doing to tibet. Its not done that... maybe that should tell you something.

Maybe propaganda is not something that intelligent people should fall for.
 
Captain03, i am ready to accept that there is propaganda on both sides
But all I was doing was reply to people who said India is not ready for a plebiscite only Pakistan was.

So the only reference I used was a United Nations declaration that Pakistan refers to in its propaganda.

Regarding the gun on the head, wouldnt it have been easier for India just to scrap article 370 which prohibits Indians from other states from owning land in J&K and then shift people into J & K just like china is doing to tibet. Its not done that... maybe that should tell you something.

Maybe propaganda is not something that intelligent people should fall for.

if no one is allowed to own land in ihk than where do the 700,000 troops in ihk live? they must live somewhere right? because i saw their faces in the news they look nowhere like kashmiris
let me tell u one thing
india has never cared for the kashmiri people and every kashmiri acknowledges that
inshallah one day kashmir will be azad :pakistan:
 
if no one is allowed to own land in ihk than where do the 700,000 troops in ihk live? they must live somewhere right? because i saw their faces in the news they look nowhere like kashmiris
let me tell u one thing
india has never cared for the kashmiri people and every kashmiri acknowledges that
inshallah one day kashmir will be azad :pakistan:

Troops do not own any land in J & K.
Just as Pakistan army when in PHK+Northern areas do not own land there (or do they??).
I have lesser hopes. I hope the bullets die down.
Militancy just provokes a harder response. Its a vicious circle.
With a peaceful J&K (like from 1948 - 1989) maybe we can talk and actually make a try with peace. There are a lot of creative solutions to J&K situations that are possible if we look for them. However, militancy (esp. ideological) will not succeed and will not be allowed to succeed.
 
Neither will the Indian Military, you can only suppress the identity and will of a people for so long...
 
Neither will the Indian Military, you can only suppress the identity and will of a people for so long...

Ok. To each his own belief.We can debate all night long but in the end only time will tell what will happen.

I believe that J&K will be quiet one day when some amount of foreign interference stops. I maintain that the common man is more interested in making his daily loaf of bread and amenities, and cannot support militancy beyond a point. After all its exactly this militancy that has ruined what was till 1989 a flourishing tourist trade.

However, I also do hope that AJK(including northern areas) also comes to the same realization that a Pakistani Military can only suppress them so much :). There have been similar protests on in Baluchistan, I am sure you donot call it a "New Baloch Weapon against Pakistan". Maybe the whole language needs to change. There is an old saying "People living in glass houses should not throw stones".
 
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Well our glasses are bullet proof, and Balochistan is not UN recognized 'Disputed Territory' and thousands of civilians haven't been raped, murdered, kidnapped in Azad Kashmir either so we can throw rocks at all those who kill our brothers..."PHK(including northern areas) also comes to the same realization that a Pakistani Military can only suppress them so much" LOL. Funny guy.
 
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