NATO's Shame - NATO Aware it was Firing at Pakistani Troops

[araz]

Every year on 26th of November at least on PDF this day should be remembered.
We shouldn't forget this betrayal from NATO.

Absolutely!! Not only did we lose good men ,but our country was invaded by our so called friends . We should cry and shout to anyone that cares to listen. But wait!! No one wants to listen to us or is interested in our view point!! We use the media and create an impartial channel that tells the world the way things are. We did not think of it ten yrs ago when we should have established the channel in good times to allow it to mature. But even now___ better late than never.!!
Araz

 

[Windjammer]

The release date for the report of inquiry, i do find questionable....23rd December.!!

Next day, all the crusaders will go into hibernation along with stockings and stuffed Turkeys.
Hell, that Rudolph is flying across a murky sky this year.

 

[araz]

Araz is saying the SAME thing as I am saying; so do your comments apply to that as well?

Impartiality is not "venom"; it is the triumph of cold logic over raw emotions.

I would openly state that is exactly what Pakistan needs, as is evident here too: Please learn to think with your brains!

Oh, and should anybody hate me for saying that, I iwll quote the words of the Vice-Chair of the TT here again:

Vchang
Any post taken out of its context can be open to misinterpretations. It is standard norm to listen to both sides before making the decision, however to stop making any noise at all is also not the right thing. This is strategically the time to gain the moral upper hand in diplomatic world. The more we shout the more we will be listened to. If at the end of the day a compromise is reached , that would be a different issue.
As to my advice about thinking before what people write, it was in relation to aggressive designs and breaking off relations,. You very conveniently ignored the bit about pushing the right buttons which is what I have alluded to. Mastan and i as well as the rest of the forum have more or less engaged in the policy on similar footings.
Araz

 

[araz]

AgnosticMuslim, sir it is my small request for you, please kindly ban VCheng extending to longer next time and disable thanks buttons. He will continue to make us very angry and twist words. As your debates many times with him, it wouldn't change him a better person or logical senses.

VCheng suggest us to wait for December 23rd reports again, MastanKhan explained it clearly regarding history of NATO mischevious actions.

Quite contrary to it, I say listen to him. he presents to you another way of thinking. You may not agree with it as it defies your way of thinking and your patriotism, but none the less it needs to be listened to and responded to. Look at and read again and again his post in response to Agno's post(post 39). You need to read and understand what he is saying.
Araz

 

[araz]

They should be punished as the Crusader punished by Sultan Salahuddin ayyubi after treachery......

And who will be the Salah uddin of today___ Mr Zardari? man he is already in hospital holding on to his heart.
Araz

 

[Developereo]

Pakistan claims a number of conversations took place with NATO officials. My question is: doesn't the military record conversations between posts, especially conversations with NATO?

I know my bank and credit card company record every phone call. I would have thought such recordings would be normal, if only to aid internal investigations. The recordings could be provided to independent organizations for voice print confirmations, etc.

I must say I was very surprised and deeply disappointed after the Abbotabad incident to see the area not secured, even as late as the following morning. Civilians were strolling around and neighborhood kids taking souvenirs from the Bin Laden compound. You expect this kind of incompetence in Somalia or Zimbabwe, not from a nuclear capable military. It really makes me wonder where else the Pakistani military has an unprofessional "chalta hai" attitude.

PS. We should demand voice recordings as evidence from the NATO report also.

 

[lem34]

Quite contrary to it, I say listen to him. he presents to you another way of thinking. You may not agree with it as it defies your way of thinking and your patriotism, but none the less it needs to be listened to and responded to. Look at and read again and again his post in response to Agno's post(post 39). You need to read and understand what he is saying.
Araz

Araz

Forgive me for being a bit of topic Chengs views are 10 a penny. It doesnt even support american people. Its just blind support of american govt no matter what. Its just that he carries our flag that attracts attention and propogates american govt policies. I have gone to the trouble of looking at all the threads hes puts up here and the posts that he has put up here. My interpretation is that at times he revels in attention seeking and often lacks substance and his arguments are often circular. At times I think he says something not out of belief but to attract attention.

As I have posted before he remind me of my boy whose now 4 years old and I tell him a bed time story and after I have finished he says and then what happend?

Back on topic. Whatever happend that fatefull day its telling that Obama can not come around to appologising. To Obama his appearance of not wanting to be seen to be appeasing us is more important than the 26 pakistani lives

 

[LEGENDARY WARRIOR]

Pakistan claims a number of conversations took place with NATO officials. My question is: doesn't the military record conversations between posts, especially conversations with NATO?

I don't think they do. They just go through verbal agreements like Musharaf did...

 

[Developereo]

I don't think they do. They just go through verbal agreements like Musharaf did...

A record of communications can be critical to analyze an event, especially in a life and death situation like a military operation. I would have thought things would be recorded. I guess not.

 

[regular]

Araz

Forgive me for being a bit of topic Chengs views are 10 a penny. It doesnt even support american people. Its just blind support of american govt no matter what. Its just that he carries our flag that attracts attention and propogates american govt policies. I have gone to the trouble of looking at all the threads hes puts up here and the posts that he has put up here. My interpretation is that at times he revels in attention seeking and often lacks substance and his arguments are often circular. At times I think he says something not out of belief but to attract attention.

As I have posted before he remind me of my boy whose now 4 years old and I tell him a bed time story and after I have finished he says and then what happend?

Back on topic. Whatever happend that fatefull day its telling that Obama can not come around to appologising. To Obama his appearance of not wanting to be seen to be appeasing us is more important than the 26 pakistani lives

Man! Mr. VCheng is just doing his job , he gets paid for here....

 

[araz]

Araz

Forgive me for being a bit of topic Chengs views are 10 a penny. It doesnt even support american people. Its just blind support of american govt no matter what. Its just that he carries our flag that attracts attention and propogates american govt policies. I have gone to the trouble of looking at all the threads hes puts up here and the posts that he has put up here. My interpretation is that at times he revels in attention seeking and often lacks substance and his arguments are often circular. At times I think he says something not out of belief but to attract attention.

As I have posted before he remind me of my boy whose now 4 years old and I tell him a bed time story and after I have finished he says and then what happend?

Back on topic. Whatever happend that fatefull day its telling that Obama can not come around to appologising. To Obama his appearance of not wanting to be seen to be appeasing us is more important than the 26 pakistani lives

Till they have an enquiry, which is their way of buying time they will not say anything. If you look at the US history they have never apologized over any incident. However, we are in a difficult position. We have been made a scape goat for US incompetence and the whipping boy of their " Do more policy". The fact that our military has jumped into bed with them along with our politcal implants along with our casual attitude has not helped.
However, as always my thoughts are about what we should do. We need to use this opportunity to salvage some pride out of this relationship and extricate ourselves from a no win situation as we can clearly see the gist of the direction the US is going to take contrary to their claims. We need to do this in a way that we don't annoy our partners enough that they open hostilities with us, yet get the maximum possible benefit out of this. No one is willing to listen to us, but we still have to shout out as loud as we can and increase the pressure on the US Government to gain some moral advantage from it. We could use the threat of reviewing our cooperation with the US to maximum benefit. Even if we only get a moral victory out of it, we can dangle it to future advantage.
I know it sounds simplistic, and crass to play this game at the expense of 24 lives of our precious countrymen, but even if we are able to gain some relief it would be a very welcome victory. As an off shoot to it we can extrapolate all sorts of reviews of how we want to engage US, taliban , Afghan Govtt, and even Iran to regain our respect in the region as an independent nation rather than a stooge of the US
This is why I say listen to Vcheng as an alternative view point. His insight is very valuable to us all.
Araz
Araz

 

[Super Falcon]

well time has came for pakistan to be in the elite group of china russia iran and few other nations who want to get rid of US as china and russia quited dollar trade we should make new friends and powerfull friends

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Attacking Pakistan seems to be a warning to China.

BWT, the best solution is to wait till they cannot support their troop in Afghanistan anymore.

 

[lem34]

Till they have an enquiry, which is their way of buying time they will not say anything. If you look at the US history they have never apologized over any incident. However, we are in a difficult position. We have been made a scape goat for US incompetence and the whipping boy of their " Do more policy". The fact that our military has jumped into bed with them along with our politcal implants along with our casual attitude has not helped.
However, as always my thoughts are about what we should do. We need to use this opportunity to salvage some pride out of this relationship and extricate ourselves from a no win situation as we can clearly see the gist of the direction the US is going to take contrary to their claims. We need to do this in a way that we don't annoy our partners enough that they open hostilities with us, yet get the maximum possible benefit out of this. No one is willing to listen to us, but we still have to shout out as loud as we can and increase the pressure on the US Government to gain some moral advantage from it. We could use the threat of reviewing our cooperation with the US to maximum benefit. Even if we only get a moral victory out of it, we can dangle it to future advantage.
I know it sounds simplistic, and crass to play this game at the expense of 24 lives of our precious countrymen, but even if we are able to gain some relief it would be a very welcome victory. As an off shoot to it we can extrapolate all sorts of reviews of how we want to engage US, taliban , Afghan Govtt, and even Iran to regain our respect in the region as an independent nation rather than a stooge of the US
This is why I say listen to Vcheng as an alternative view point. His insight is very valuable to us all.
Araz
Araz

I hear what you have to say. I accept and agree that crass as it feels and sounds we need to maximise what pakistan can get out of it but I think you are being more than a bit generous to chengs contribution. Cheng does not advocate anything that you are suggesting check his posts carefully

 

[fd24]

Vcheng,

Why did you highlight the post in RED CAPS-----. Are you stating that NATO is the final word in this case---or is NATO'S word, the word of god or something----.

Or, are you stating that truth only come out when nato speaks!!!!!!

MastanKhan - you speak words of wisdom and have nailed VChengs loyalties on the head.
In Chengs eyes we are all equal - but of course NATO are MORE equal others -(George Orwell). I cringe at the thought that i believe whatever Nato say the likes of Cheng will believe them.
Sometimes living in the UK i am saddened at events in my fatherland and it hurts - the fact i am limited at what i can do. However i pray things get better and my fellow Pakistanis prosper. I always will give my nation the benefit of the doubt to my Pakistan and will never sell me soul down the river - id rather die than lose my identity.