What's new

NATO's Shame - NATO Aware it was Firing at Pakistani Troops

AgnosticMuslim, sir it is my small request for you, please kindly ban VCheng extending to longer next time and disable thanks buttons. He will continue to make us very angry and twist words. As your debates many times with him, it wouldn't change him a better person or logical senses.

VCheng suggest us to wait for December 23rd reports again, MastanKhan explained it clearly regarding history of NATO mischevious actions.

Look bro - Its really quite simple. The 23rd of December wont make much difference. It will like recieving an empty box as a present when you are aged 8 and being bitterly disappointed. The last month has shown us the US and Nato have attempted already to muddy the waters by spreading misinformation and discrediting the Pakistasni version. As far as i am concerned i dont and wont believe anything they say as they are liars and their credit worthiness as far as im concerned is questionable to say the least.
The lack of respect they have shown to the death of the soldiers speaks volumes. My thoughts are that the American theory of time is a great healer and time will dilute the anamosity built up is misguided to say the least. Whichever excuse and reason they give is lipservice.
The recent screw turning of stopping aid etc seems to have simply not worked - i hope and pray our government hold steady and doesnt cave in to the pressures.
One last thing - brother VCheng is not fooling anybody by his constant anti Pakistani posts. I dont want him banned nor do i want the thanks button disabled - he is entitled to his opinion and what he doesnt realize is he is not only isolating himself but the nation he defends is not being done any favors by his stance - in fact quite the opposite. Our annoyance grows deeper. Let him be and learn how not to be like him whatever the future holds for us - dont be sold out...
 
Araz is saying the SAME thing as I am saying; so do your comments apply to that as well?

Impartiality is not "venom"; it is the triumph of cold logic over raw emotions.

I would openly state that is exactly what Pakistan needs, as is evident here too: Please learn to think with your brains!

Oh, and should anybody hate me for saying that, I iwll quote the words of the Vice-Chair of the TT here again:


Sir,

Take your own stand---don't put the gun on the shoulder of TT vice chairperson---you put your views many a times before the TT vice chair put his---so, please, don't use that crutch.

And what's up with this comment about " using your brain"---that is a very poor comment coming from you---.


Let me put it plainly---so that we don't have any misunderstanding left---there is too much DECEPTION in your posts VCHENG-----either you have no clue where you stand----or you have made a fool of some of us---there are quite a few who know where you stand----.


Nato is not known for its honesty ever.
 
I would respectfully decline to speculate at this point in time. It is only a few more days.

Edit: I will not post in these threads until 12-23 voluntarily. This is my last post here.


Please find below a post of yours where not only do you speculate but you have already made your mind up without waiting for american report. You have been prepared to condem PA and ISI, we all know in the pastamericans track record of not telling the truth eg WMD in iraq yet you want to wait for american version :

Re: Pakistan Releases Details About NATO Attack
You have provided 'anonymous sources and media accounts', you have not provided two official versions of statements from ISPR/PA that contradict themselves on the 2.5KM/300M issue.

Is your need to be an apologist for the West so great that you can resort to such blatant lying/disingenuity?
Original Post By AgNoStIc MuSliM

The disingenuity lies with those officers of the Pakistan Army/ISI who reported all that unverified information to the press to fan flames, not me, and all those on PDF and the media that propagated it.

All the backtracking that will now happen will not discomfort me at all, but you. I need not say anything after the Pakistani Defence minister announced that supply routes will open after a suitable statement from NATO.

I rest my case.
 
They should be punished as the Crusader punished by Sultan Salahuddin ayyubi after treachery......
 
Hi,

I want you people to read this post---se hopw mucvh hate does an average soldier has towards pakistan---aqnd when it comes out of the mouth of a medal of honor-----you are doomed


ABOUT
//you're reading...
UNCATEGORIZED
Integrity gets Medal of Honor recipiant fired and labeled “mentally unstable”.
POSTED BY MDOCKRY ⋅ NOVEMBER 30, 2011 ⋅ 2 COMMENTS
FILED UNDER AMERICA, BAE, BRITISH MULTINATIONAL DEFENSE, DAKOTA MEYER, MARINE, MARINES, MEDAL OF HONOR, PAKISTAN, POLITICS, WASHINGTON


Not long ago we heard the incredible story of Marine Sgt. Dakota Meyers. Against orders Sgt. Meyers trapped in a situational hell, with the cracking of enemy fire and explosions going on all around him, stormed fearlessly and selflessly, into an enemy strong hold rescuing thirteen Marines and twenty three Afghan Soldiers. He was later awarded the Medal of Honor becoming only the third living recipient of the award since Vietnam. He was the first Marine in four decades to receive the award.

Sgt. Meyers was humble when receiving the award and was probably the only person to question weather he was his actions actually made him worthy of earning his Medal of Honor. At any rate, Sgt. Meyers after serving his country and contract with the United States Marine Corps, decided to leave and pursue a new career in the civilian world. He utilized his experience, and expertise working for a company that trained US troops on how to use thermal imaging to assist in finding improvised explosive devices. After working for the company he later decided to leave the company to work for the British multinational defense firm, aka BAE. He worked as a member of a team who’s job was to sell advanced thermal imaging scopes to Pakistan. Sgt. Meyers became concerned with the sale and brought issue to his supervisors in an email stating “We are taking the best gear, the best technology on the market to date and giving it to guys known to stab us in the back. These are the same people killing our guys.”

After receiving the email his boss began too” belittle” him, laughing at the “pending star status” his Medal of Honor allowed him. Sgt. Meyers than asked to go back to work for Ausgar, the first company he worked for after leaving the military, the company said yes, and Sgt. Meyers went back to work. Only after his resignation with BAE did his bosses say he was “mentally unstable”, and that he had “drinking issues”. The DoD got wind of this and blocked any chance Sgt. Meyers has for working for Ausgar, or any defense company for that matter. The case is pending.

WHY WE SHOULD BE DISGUSTED BY THIS

Nothing that Sgt. Meyers had said or did deserved this type of action. Honestly, what person in their right frame of mind would not question the action of selling highly technologically advanced killing tools to Pakistan. I think mostly everybody knows the certain ramifications and dangers that could potentially and realistically happen. I would be concerned to as I think the majority of any American troops, families and civilians would be as well. The fact of the matter is this man showed some Integrity and Honor attributes that are rarely seen anymore, and what did it get him? He is barred from working and defense job ever again, pending a trial. It is no secret that Pakistan has shady relations with America, it is also no secret that Pakistan harbors terror groups and aides the Taliban by providing safe havens and funds. There’s heaps of supporting documentation and facts supporting it. Shame on BAE for weighing business over right thing. Sgt Myers did nothing wrong, but voice his concern. That was no reason for the actions that followed.
 
One last thing - brother VCheng is not fooling anybody by his constant anti Pakistani posts. I dont want him banned nor do i want the thanks button disabled - he is entitled to his opinion and what he doesnt realize is he is not only isolating himself but the nation he defends is not being done any favors by his stance - in fact quite the opposite. Our annoyance grows deeper. Let him be and learn how not to be like him whatever the future holds for us - dont be sold out...

I don't understand the opposites sides from VCheng. He left out to listen Western musics and support terrorists acts by adversary against Pakistan, he is clearly himself a terrorist supporter no doubt and didn't praise Pakistan's efforts. What he doesn't know is 28 martyers, who deployed in the borders, successfully prevents Taliban attacks last five or six months. Then NATO killed martyers in order to open doors for more terrorists into Pakistan.

Shame on him!
 
Pakistan military insists NATO attack was deliberate - CNN.com

Washington (CNN) -- Pakistan's military insists that the NATO strike last month that killed more than two dozen Pakistani soldiers near the Afghan border was deliberate.

In an effort to pre-empt the results of NATO's official investigation, due out next week, the Pakistani Embassy in Washington invited reporters for a detailed briefing on the incident.

Pakistani military officials at the briefing contended that NATO forces knew they were firing at Pakistani troops throughout the attack and even apologized as they kept firing, evidence they say supports their assertions the attack was deliberate.

U.S. officials have said it was a regrettable case of mistaken identity and miscommunication when NATO attacked the area in support of a nearby U.S.-Afghan joint patrol that believed it was under fire from the Taliban.

"I have a story to tell and this is the story of those brave people who left us in the middle of a cold, November night on a barren mountain top," a senior Pakistani defense official began.

Using maps, photos and PowerPoint charts, he offered a painstaking recreation of the incident from the Pakistani military's point of view, based on interviews with surviving troops and residents where the attack took place.

He and embassy officials at the briefing spoke on the condition of anonymity, preferring for their military and civilian leadership in Islamabad to speak on the record.

At issue is whether Pakistani troops were the target of the attacks.

The Pakistani officials at the briefing argued that well-established operating procedures and an intricate system for operational information sharing were deliberately ignored, which led to the tragic incident that killed 24 Pakistani "martyrs."

American officials told CNN that U.S. forces checked first with their Pakistani counterparts before launching the strike. Before calling in airstrikes, the U.S. forces checked with a Pakistani liaison team. They were not seeking permission -- because the airstrikes were described as a matter of self-defense -- but were making sure Pakistani troops weren't in what was called a poorly marked border area, the officials said.

After that consultation, the U.S. believed there were no Pakistani forces nearby, which turned out not to be true.

U.S. military officials would not comment on the Pakistani assertions, citing the ongoing investigation. But in the past few weeks, U.S. officials have denied vehemently the charge by Pakistan's military that this was a deliberate attack.

"What I can say, absolutely, and I can't imagine anyone in this room wouldn't believe me -- we did not attack a border post, a Pakistan military border post, intentionally," Martin Dempsey, chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said in a speech in Washington last week. "If you think we did, I'd have to ask you in return what in the world would we hope to gain by doing that? So I can say that categorically.

Dempsey said, "They believe we did this intentionally in some way to either discredit them or goad them into further action."

Pentagon spokesman George Little said, "We know enough at this point to say with certainty this was not an intentional attack on Pakistani forces. The Pakistanis are our partners; it defies reason that we would attack them."

But Pakistani officials at the embassy briefing said that not only were the coordinates incorrect, covering an area nine miles north of the attack, but Pakistan's chain of command was in the process of reviewing them when NATO helicopters began the striking Pakistani outpost "Volcano" shortly after midnight. Pakistan only returned fire after its first post was fired upon, which prompted NATO to strike against the second post, "Boulder," the officials said, adding that the commanding officer who ran up the hill to the area with a rescue team was killed.

A NATO officer at the joint coordination outpost in the area even apologized to his Pakistani liaison in the middle of the attack for relaying the wrong location of the area NATO planes were about to fire on, preventing Pakistan from warning this was a friendly post, according to the Pakistani officials. Even after NATO officer acknowledged at about 1:15 a.m. that it was firing on the outposts and confirmed it was pulling back its helicopters, the Pakistanis maintain there was continued fire on the two posts by U.S. attack helicopters and an AC-130 gunship for about another hour until about 2:20 a.m. Neither claim could be verified with NATO and American officials.

Could NATO forces have mistaken the two border posts on the Afghan border for extremist bases, as U.S. officials have suggested?

Highly unlikely, the senior Pakistani defense official said at the briefing. First of all, the structures stood in plain view on the top of a barren ridge -- a place he said, which terrorists probably wouldn't be inclined to use as a hideout. Photos of both posts that suffered the attack show the structures made of stone and sandbags sitting on high ground.

A slide at the presentation called "Mistaken Identity Not Possible" tried to casts further doubt on the U.S. argument.

The slide detailed several ways Pakistan and its NATO counterparts keep track of each other's activities at the border.

The defense official claimed that NATO was even monitoring the Pakistani border posts' radio transmissions reporting it was under fire by NATO aircraft.

What's more, he said, the Pakistani military has shown its counterparts at several coordination centers maps of where it has outposts so as to avoid such misunderstandings.

"It's something which just doesn't make any sense to me given the kind of coordination mechanism we have, the kind of information-sharing we have, given the fact that these locations are mutually known to both sides," he said.

The official would not speculate as to why NATO would deliberately attack two Pakistani outposts about 300 yards from the border, but would only say this was the official conclusion of the Pakistani leadership.

The incident has exacerbated an already fractious relationship between the United States and Pakistan, whose military has been on the defensive since the secret raid by U.S. Navy SEALs that killed Osama bin Laden in May.

Since the attack on bin Laden's compound in Abbottabad, close to Pakistani military installations, tensions have been at record levels. But last month's attack seems to have been the last straw, with Pakistan shutting NATO supply routes until it receives an official apology.

The United States has expressed "condolences" for the loss of the Pakistani soldiers but won't go as far as to issue an "apology" until the NATO investigation is complete. Pakistan has explicitly refused to coordinate with investigation, saying it doesn't trust NATO.

Regardless of the results of the investigation, officials say the incident has further solidified Pakistani military and public opinion against cooperation with NATO and the United States.

"There is a sense of outrage," one senior official said. "It's there on the street, amongst the leadership -- political as well as military -- and among the rank and file of the military. The sheer magnitude of this thing is unbelievable."
 
In this convoluted war of shifting alliances, one gets the sense that the average American soldier sees no difference between the terrorists and Pakistanis...whether it is the Pakistani army or a terrorist crossing over, we seem to have been caught in a vast net cast in regards to cultural generalization.
I am uncomfortable to comment with only one side of the story readily available, but the recent history has revealed that NATO has shown a general disregard for Pakistani life...as if killing Pakistanis is all part of killing terrorists. The disconnect between Pakistan and the US has never been more apparent. I don't believe NATO soldiers are crazy animals wanting to kill everyone in sight, but the angle the American media and leadership have taken in regards to Pakistan has painted us as the enemy...it is hardly shocking then that we are being slaughtered with little remorse...after all, we are the "terrorists".
 
No one should be surprised at the actions of the US (NATO) and General Petraeus. It was 10 years ago that Colin Powell and Richard Armitage were threatening to bomb Pakistan back into the stone age if they did not cooperate after 9/11. Now it's been taken to another level, as Pakistan has been bombed almost daily with drone attacks for years, with tacit cooperation from the
"elites" of Pakistan. However, the true face of US/NATO has now been revealed. Their aim has always been to destabilize Pakistan, and to eliminate any opportunity for an energy corridor from Iran to China, as well as their agenda for the de-nuclearization of Pakistan.

Imagine the reaction of Americans if Mexico bombed a US military base near the border in Texas or Arizona,
and killed 25 American troops. It would be considered an act of war...
 
This for cheng I mean its actually not pro us govt but then hey what born in the USA not

Agnostic/Mods mate please dont delete it lol

Bruce Springsteen - Born In The U.S.A. - YouTube

The song's lyrics indeed apply to the current situation ......

And so they put a rifle in my hands, Sent me off to a foreign land, To go and kill the yellow man

the yellow man kicked their butt and sent them packing , now its the turn of the brown man to kick their butt and send them packing.

Americans and their supporters are a disgrace to humanity
 
No one should be surprised at the actions of the US (NATO) and General Petraeus. It was 10 years ago that Colin Powell and Richard Armitage were threatening to bomb Pakistan back into the stone age if they did not cooperate after 9/11. Now it's been taken to another level, as Pakistan has been bombed almost daily with drone attacks for years, with tacit cooperation from the
"elites" of Pakistan. However, the true face of US/NATO has now been revealed. Their aim has always been to destabilize Pakistan, and to eliminate any opportunity for an energy corridor from Iran to China, as well as their agenda for the de-nuclearization of Pakistan.

Imagine the reaction of Americans if Mexico bombed a US military base near the border in Texas or Arizona,
and killed 25 American troops. It would be considered an act of war...

Yet some pakistanis want to wait until we get the american version???
 
In this convoluted war of shifting alliances, one gets the sense that the average American soldier sees no difference between the terrorists and Pakistanis...whether it is the Pakistani army or a terrorist crossing over, we seem to have been caught in a vast net cast in regards to cultural generalization.
I am uncomfortable to comment with only one side of the story readily available, but the recent history has revealed that NATO has shown a general disregard for Pakistani life...as if killing Pakistanis is all part of killing terrorists. The disconnect between Pakistan and the US has never been more apparent. I don't believe NATO soldiers are crazy animals wanting to kill everyone in sight, but the angle the American media and leadership have taken in regards to Pakistan has painted us as the enemy...it is hardly shocking then that we are being slaughtered with little remorse...after all, we are the "terrorists".


Hi,

The poor guy---Cameron Minter has been making rounds in pakistan and telling the public about how it was a mistake and how sypathetic the american public is---what a bunch of hog-wash and bolognie----americans hate pakistan army with a passion---this report by the medal of honor----threw gasoline on the fire----his mindset tell the true opinion the u s millitary has of pakistan.

10 years it has been----the murdering of muslims has not ended---and they want us to murder more muslims---it is beyond sickening----,

We have a gutless elected prime minister, a president who sold a country and general Kiyani---who is clueless to what is happening around in the country and around the world, the air chief who is asleep at his job and the millitaqry general headquarters----who are lulled into misinformation---their base has lost connection and these idiots are waiting for the connection to be restored---so that they can call the base after two hours to find out if everthing is fine and well.
 
Back
Top Bottom