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NATO Attacks Pakistani Check-post

You almost made it sound as if our army is scared of an incompetent one in S. Asia

mate.. army's are a different story (though once we commit, you'll know what you are up against), we're talking about consequences here.. You might win in the end if a war break down (MIGHT) but that'll be the end of US as it is now, too big a risk for even YOUR government to take.. Thats the reason for your cowboys for holding back, otherwise, OBL's drama gave your govt. enough reasons to invade.. They have done it on a lot less convincing reasons (WMDs)..

Hope your horses are held now :P
 
Which is why I reject the notion each time whenever a pro-GHQ proponent suggests that its Zardari that has not given the army the permission to fight back, that the defence of Pakistan is a given for the army. You don't need to call up Zardari "Ji Pakistani ki band baj rahi hai, kya main Pakistan ko bacha loon?" Drones come to attack Pakistan you HAVE to take them down. PAF chief saying they just need the nod from the government is ridiculous. If so, PAF chief should have instead said that the government has stopped us. He didn't say that.

I guess it is not every time that they seek permission.. given once, it would be enough for army to justify that the steps they took were supported by elected government, so now that it is in the open, and chief has thrown the ball in Politician's court.. why not hit it??.. why not "publicly" give permission for PA to go ahead and hit down any invader?? whats stopping them now?.. Nation is ready, Army is ready, Air force is ready, whats the holdup? Assets and families abroad??
 
Bilal
The Army knows that, the civilian Govt. doesn't have any guts to get on with issuing orders to kill the drones, because they fear the amount of aftermath by the Americans of shooting them down, the Army and Airforce on the other hand are waiting for the Govt's orders to shoot them down, which they'll never get and will sit like ducks unless and until an order has been issued. What a vicious circle we are in.

As of now, the Armed Forces are in no position of overthrowing the civilian government, or going against its wishes. They need authorization from the civilian government to act differently. The Army is being targeting by the West anyways, & for Kayani to try to illegally overthrow the elected Zardari regime would render the Pakistan Army a terrorist organization. So the Pakistan Defense Forces (Army, Air Force) are on a tight leash now. However, if legal means were pursued, & the civilian Pakistani government (that is in power) told the US to stop the drone attacks, & if they didn't, gave the Pakistan Air Force authorization to shoot down the drones, that would not be harmful to the Pakistan Defense Forces as they would go through the legal means of acting like they do. In my opinion at least.
 
The US says it doesn't want Islamic extremism to rise in Pakistan, but its actions (drones & others) do exactly that. So what's really going on? That's the question that needs to be asked.
 
sir,
they "DO" shoot back

our commanders will investigate and demand explanations from NATO forces for this incident .

HAHAHAHAHA

AAAAAAAAAAHHHHAAAAAA HA HA HAHAHA!!!

YOU SHOULD GET A JOB AT ISPR. THEY NEED PEOPLE LIKE YOU.
 
Don't worry Kiyani and pasha will give a very strong response (on T.V ONLY) our army is just another arm of NATO don't u still get it ? We as a nation should stand up against these corrupt generals and politicians it's time to take our country back
 
Yes, you clearly don't get it. Let me explain it to you. The government is a sell-out, on the payroll of the US. The Air Chief clearly said that if the civilian government gave the go-head to bring the drones down, they would bring them down right away. Remember, what he said was not whimsical, but an official statement made in the parliament of Pakistan in a 10 hour session. Unlike the military, the civilian government has not even once (in public or private) condemned the drone strikes against innocent civilians. This is the reason why the US government has been saying nice things about Zardari & the civilian government, but are really going after the Pakistan Army (Defense Forces) & the ISI. The US doesn't want the Zardari government toppled over as it get everything it wants from it.

hypothetically, what happens if India decides to fly over Pakistan with a few bombers? Does PAF have to call up the civilian government on its special hotline to authorize action?

I'm just curious to see how selective we are over our sovereignty.

Otherwise we should dismantle our radars and auction our airspace since it holds no real purpose. Compare our response of empty rhetoric and "strongly worded letters" to that of China when US spy plane decided to fly over its skies. They made it land, practically dismantled it and sent them back a shell.

It hasn't happened since.

When you give into a bully, he continues to bully.
 
hypothetically, what happens if India decides to fly over Pakistan with a few bombers? Does PAF have to call up the civilian government on its special hotline to authorize action?

I'm just curious to see how selective we are over our sovereignty.

Otherwise we should dismantle our radars and auction our airspace since it holds no real purpose. Compare our response of empty rhetoric and "strongly worded letters" to that of China when US spy plane decided to fly over its skies. They made it land, practically dismantled it and sent them back a shell.

It hasn't happened since.

When you give into a bully, he continues to bully.

Pakistan's civilian government has an agreement with the US over drone strikes, Pakistan doesn't have one with India. The Pakistani civilian government under Musharraf made an arrangement with the US over drone strikes, which is still under the authority of Pakistan's civilian government. That's why the Pakistani Armed Forces need authorization from the civilian government to shoot down the drones. Capish?
 
I'm not talking about drones, but even if I was why do they needlessly "protest"?

Doesn't make sense.
 
I'm not talking about drones, but even if I was why do they needlessly "protest"?

Doesn't make sense.

If you don't know why they are registering the "protest", then you need to learn politics mate.. Every official protest gets registered in UN, it supports the protesting nation later if things go out of hand, "friendly" countries of that protesting country can support on the basis that protests were recorded and no official action was taken by the Global community to deter the situation..

HTH..
 
A U.S. helicopter exchanged fire with Pakistani troops near the border between Afghanistan and Pakistan today, resulting in injuries for two Pakistani soldiers, U.S. and Pakistani officials said.

Accounts differ as to what exactly prompted the firefight, but the incident may further strain already fragile relations between the U.S. and Pakistan following the American unilateral military raid deep in Pakistani territory that killed Osama bin Laden May 1.

The U.S.-led International Security Assistance Force said U.S. helicopters were in Afghanistan near Forward Operating Base Tillman when they responded to incoming direct and indirect fire from over the border in Pakistan, presumably from militants. The helicopters initially did not return fire, but when a second round of incoming fire began, they did fire in response.

The Pakistani military, however, said that two NATO helicopters caused the incident by violating Pakistani airspace before being fired upon by Pakistani troops.

"We know for sure the [Apache] helicopter was fired upon -- we got rounds inside the helicopter," Campbell said. "The helicopter returned fire and we are working through just exactly what happened... If [American soldiers] are taking effective fire, then by all means they have to take all measures to safeguard themselves and the other people around there."


The ISAF said it is investigating the incident further, but one senior U.S. official said it is "likely" the helicopter accidentally did pass into Pakistan. Gen. John Campbell, East region commander for the ISAF, told ABC News sometimes insurgents fire on NATO troops from near Pakistani outposts in hopes of drawing U.S. return fire.

Though the Pakistani military lodged a "strong protest" over the incident, one Pakistani military official said the army made it clear it was not overly concerned when it requested the meeting at the colonel or brigadier general level. Had the incident been fatal or had the Pakistani military wanted to object more strongly, it would have made the request to meet at a higher level or raised stronger complaints at a diplomatic level, he said.

U.S. Commander: Lack of Communication With Pakistan Dangerous

Campbell said that communication between the American and Pakistani militaries had suffered in the backlash following the bin Laden operation, which has increased chances of such incidents on the border.

"You just have to be talking back and forth... so if something comes from Pakistan and somebody has fired, we can pull up our Pakistani counterparts and say, 'Hey, we are getting fire from here. We need you guys to go take care of that,'" he said. "So it's very important to try to work that relationship."



Gen. David Rodriguez, the ISAF commander in Afghanistan, said it is "very tense along the border" and that American troops are "trying to be as careful as we can, as have the Pakistanis."

The U.S. raid in Abbottabad, Pakistan, that killed bin Laden earlier this month, which was apparently carried out without the full knowledge of Pakistani officials, provoked an angry backlash from the Pakistani public and the Pakistani government. Last week the Pakistani parliament passed a resolution that "condemned the U.S. unilateral action in Abbottabad, which constitutes a violation of Pakistan's sovereignty.

U.S. Helicopter, Pakistani Military Exchange Fire at Border - ABC News
 
All it takes for a full fledge war to start is a weapon aimed or a bullet fired. My questions is, if a retaliatory action taken by a single solider causes a chain of events that starts are full scale war with USA, how many of you are willing to see your homes destroyed, you families killed and the remaining taken over? Yes sure we can bring the "Shair ke aik din ke zindagi" cliche's into the discussion but seriously, how many of you have actually fought in a war? How many of you have actually dodged bullets, bombs, Ack Ack fire, tanks, canons? Before blaming the army for everything just analyze yourselves. Sure we can all be heroes sitting behind a computer screen but who actually has the courage to face the hardships of life on the war front? What amount of money can motivate you to die? Surely not the measly salary these solders are getting? Learn to appreciate those who risk their lives for you, they possess the same sentiments that we do but they know what war is like.
War with USA will not be a face to face one, it will consist of high altitude bombings and cruise missiles. The maximum we will be able to do may be will be to hit a few of their bases in Afghanistan that too if we are lucky and then there will be no Pakistan left to defend. This is what the top military brass has to consider before shooting down a drone or a NATO helicopter. Wake up and smell the air, live today to fight another day.

What you have said up there so nonchalantly is infact what most of the Pakistanis living in Northern areas face everyday. It is not just cowardly but outright disgusting to face the other way and let your innocent countrymen die just because you are 'currently' safe!

It's agreed that most of us have not seen the war, most of us are used to living in comfort but at the least we have the dedication and patriotism to go to war for our country! Heroes are discovered during testing times only. When 300 odd could stand to 10k and defeat them why can't we? I'm not talking about attacking or destroying America but we must atleast be prepared to defend our country, even with our lives! Die fighting and you are a Shaeed, win and you are a Ghazi, either way is it not a fair deal? Or do you want to live forever?

It does not matter if the attacker is Indian or American. An aggressor is merely just that, an aggressor! You want us all to hide in our burrows because this enemy has bigger guns? Dude if you cannot protect others with actions then atleast advocate for them verbally. Are you not a Muslim?
 

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