Nadeem F Paracha insults Allama Iqbal.

[Multani]

Q:Iqbal’s role model is Shaheen (Falcon). In an interview with Viewpoint, Manzur Ejaz said Taliban were Iqbal’s Shaheen. One may not fully agree with him but Iqbal’s Sheheen is hardly feminist. His Shaheen, many will find, as patriarchal. Your comments?
NFP: Iqbal’s Shaheen is a Muslim adoption, rather mutation of Nietzsche’s Superman. And I think he acknowledges that. When Iqbal talks about the Shaheen in the context of the Muslim ummah, the impression one gets is that the ummah is first and foremost a macho, all-male fraternity. At least that’s the initial impression.

(Taken from ViewPoint magazine April 2011 issue)

Third Question:

1) This question itself is a stupid question. It such a stupid question, can't believe it. How come Taliban - Shaheeh - feminism - Patriarchal can join up as dots to produce an argument for something. Lest that something is pre-conceived in the mind of the questioner, and the one who is answering, Paracha.

Does feminism even apply to the concept of Shaheen??

It's like I take oranges and say, oh look, they don't show a colour of Bananas

 

[Developereo]

He can not be flawless but his theory/poetry is.He could question his ability but insulting him is not acceptable as he did.
No human is perfect,so i can't say that he was perfect but what he did for his people is respectable.
As you have given your example so i am questioning, have your kids ever insulted you or they could forgive someone who insults you?I guess no.

So the conclusion is,he could have questioned his poetry/thoughts but can't impose his insulting opinion.

No human is perfect, and neither was Iqbal.

Most people understand the bounds of decency, but we can't expect everyone to be civilized. People like Paracha will sell anything for money. We must respect their right to express opinions, but it doesn't mean we have to respect them.

 

[Multani]

Even our educated classes are extremely intolerant , I find no reason to criticize Mullah alone. Intolerance stems from an invincible assumption of the infallibility of one’s beliefs and a dogmatic conviction about their rightness. An intolerant society cannot tolerate expression of ideas and views which challenge its current doctrines and conventional wisdom. Consequently, unconventional and heterodox thoughts and views have to be suppressed.

Let's dissect those unconventional thoughts and heterodox views.

No one is saying that there cannot be any good in unconventional and heterodox thoughts.

We can dissect conventional and orthodox thoughts too.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Firstly, the question itself is loaded with pre-conceived ideas against those who advocate religion.

1) Paracha talks about contradictions in a number of conservative thinkers in the region. My question to Paracha. Who are they? Where did Allama Iqbal oppose women's education? Allamah Iqbal took his opinions on women's education from two prominent seminaries in Northern India. Under what context did Allamah Iqbal oppose "women's education"..

2) He accuses Allamah Iqbal of breeding hypocrisy indirectly. He must substantiate this. He has to substantiate about the suffering from contradictions. This is not lucid writing, but careless self-opinions that hold as much weight as a mosquito's wing.

3) He uses a single example from Maududi to identify those conservative figures. Maududi cannot be compiared to Allamah Iqbal. They come from TWO DIFFERENT WORLDS. He has accused Maududi of not sending his son to Jihad. Maududi's family is still in Pakistan. He can ask them for a reason. Else, it just accusations.

4) Paracha thinks his work isn't relevant. But millions and millions of Pakistanis do think it is. If paracha's opinion holds any weight, then he should explain how he thinks Allamah Iqbal's works don't hold much relevancy for today's Pakistanis.
Else, he is speaking from his backside.

5) Again, he says Allamah Iqbal is not an advocate of pluralism. Which is plain wrong.

6) Parachas is of the opinion that the notion of universalism is an update for humanity. And he believes in this because he says that Iqbal's Mujahid is outdated. But, in my previous post, I have shown how he does not know Allamah Iqbal or the Mujahid. Paracha is biased.

From his tweets, it's even clearer that Paracha is not a sincere man, but has sinister reasons.

Meray bhai you were supposed to refute this part : "Iqbal himself practiced what we can call Halala in case of his second wife. However, he was in love with a liberal women Atia Faizi. He opposes women education but employs a German nanny for his own daughter. He is Pan Islamist but wants a Kashmiri husband for his daughter. What explains these contradictions"

because if it is true (which it is) then you can not blame NFP . Iqbal was a simple human being and should not be above criticism of all kind

Third Question:
1) This question itself is a stupid question. It such a stupid question, can't believe it. How come Taliban - Shaheeh - feminism - Patriarchal can join up as dots to produce an argument for something. Lest that something is pre-conceived in the mind of the questioner, and the one who is answering, Paracha.
Does feminism even apply to the concept of Shaheen??
It's like I take oranges and say, oh look, they don't show a colour of Bananas

Read the whole interview and if you still can`t find a relevance , then you are surely not mature enough to discuss Iqbal and Maudodi

We can dissect conventional and orthodox thoughts too.

But first you need to prove NFP wrong , and if you can do that somehow , then you need to tell us that why should there be no freedom of speech !!

 

[Multani]

Meray bhai you were supposed to refute this part : "Iqbal himself practiced what we can call Halala in case of his second wife. However, he was in love with a liberal women Atia Faizi. He opposes women education but employs a German nanny for his own daughter. He is Pan Islamist but wants a Kashmiri husband for his daughter. What explains these contradictions"

because if it is true (which it is) then you can not blame NFP . Iqbal was a simple human being and should not be above criticism of all kind

Bhai Jaan Azlan,,

The person asking the question comes with a pre-conceived opinion of those things being contradictions or even being true. It was your friend Parachas's duty to substantiate them, and show why, because he clearly is on the same table as the questioner, and he failed miserably at it, with one silly and not-true example from Maududi

I dissected Paracha's reply.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Bhai Jaan Azlan,,

The person asking the question comes with a pre-conceived opinion of those things being contradictions or even being true. It was your friend Parachas's duty to substantiate them, and show why, because he clearly is on the same table as the questioner, and he failed miserably at it, with one silly and not-true example from Maududi

I dissected Paracha's reply.

No brother , you were not able to dissect anything at all .
And before going nuts on NFP , I suggest you read :

"Letters and diary of Atiya Faizi. Translation by Zia uddin Ahmad Burni. Iqbal Academy, Karachi, Pakistan, 1969."

So you may get some idea of all this , as Iqbal would say, 'sitaroan say aagay jehaan aur bhi hain..." [there are world's that exist beyond our imaginations...]

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I myself am a big admirer of Iqbal and I believe Iqbal was not a Mullah by any definition

beautifully explained. I admire Iqbal at the level of sainthood. I read his Persian and Urdu poetry and every now and then It just clicks and I wonder at the depth of his thoughts a wonderful poet. Murd e Momin and Shaheen concept has no relevance to extremist Islam there is no need to feel defensive and lament over it. NFP has an opinion but I chose to disagree because he is being unfairly selective and crude in his comparison.
has he conveniently forgotten that its the same Iqbal who is urging the Muslims to follow a Shia Jinnah and ...

hold your breath my fellow Muslims... and he states that the Toheed is best explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (the spiritual leader and founder of Ahmedi faith) it caused a lot of butt hurt among the Jamat Islami type of Muslims and he was called a kafir etc too.. and then the usual Sharabi" accusation...
NFP misses that too?

what says he? a guy who is following a shia "karif", praising the Aqeeda Toheed of Ahemdi "Kafirs".. indulges in liquor too is Moududi's partner in extremism? really? I mean Really? Moududi must have rolled in his grave


Sadqain has taken up some of Iqbal's verses and drew some mind blowing pictures .. "Falq Daikh , Zamin daikh...."

Iqbal imploring you to discover the universe within and without. bucking you up, telling you to put your chin up. all that during the worse time of Indian slavery under the British empire.

 

[NP-complete]

Over time a culture of pseudo intellectualism has developed in Pakistan. NFP is a typical example. But i think this trend is waning. NFP is among the last of his kind.

 

[Multani]

No brother , you were not able to dissect anything at all .
And before going nuts on NFP , I suggest you read :

"Letters and diary of Atiya Faizi. Translation by Zia uddin Ahmad Burni. Iqbal Academy, Karachi, Pakistan, 1969."

So you may get some idea of all this , as Iqbal would say, 'sitaroan say aagay jehaan aur bhi hain..." [there are world's that exist beyond our imaginations...]

It's very easy to run away. This is what Paracha does. He cannot take criticism of himself, but is on to criticize Allamah Iqbal

Over time a culture of pseudo intellectualism has developed in Pakistan. NFP is a typical example. But i think this trend is waning. NFP is among the last of his kind.

you nailed it

 

[qamar1990]

Admin posted a thread for abusing NFP . No discussion was intended . Every one is just taking out his frustration . 12 pages already and not a single post by any NFP hater which was intended to challenge NFP`s understanding of Iqbal (academically) . All I see here is people abusing him and his family !!.

your lean towards communism so obviously you will support him. the guy is more of a comic then anything. all he writes is pathetic satire for his small number of readers. he is not insulting one of our founding fathers. this guy deserves to be chopped up and fed to dogs.

 

[Durrak]

beautifully explained. I admire Iqbal at the level of sainthood. I read his Persian and Urdu poetry and every now and then It just clicks and I wonderful at the depth of his thoughts a wonderful poet. Murd e Momin and Shaheen concept has no relevance to extremist Islam there is no need to feel defensive and lament over it. NFP has an opinion but I chose to disagree because he is being unfairly selective and crude in his comparison.
has he conveniently forgotten that its the same Iqbal who is urging the Muslims to follow a Shia Jinnah and ...

hold your breath my fellow Muslims... and he states that the Toheed is best explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (the spiritual leader and founder of Ahmedi faith) it caused a lot of butt hurt among the Jamat Islami type of Muslims and he was called a kafir etc too.. and then the usual Sharabi" accusation...
NFP misses that too?

what says he? a guy who is folling a shia "karif", praising the Aqeeda Toheed of Ahemdi "Kafirs".. indulges in liquor too is Moududi's partner in extremism?


Sadqain has taken up some of Iqbal's verses and drew some mind blowing pictures .. "Falq Daikh , Zamin daikh...."

Iqbal imploring you to discover the universe within and without. bucking you up, telling you to put your chin up. all that during the worse time of Indian slavery under the British empire.

Well explained Sir that's what I was saying his personal life is not anyone's property to comment on,what he did in his practical life for his people in that hard time is worth discussing.

 

[SQ8]

Over time a culture of pseudo intellectualism has developed in Pakistan. NFP is a typical example. But i think this trend is waning. NFP is among the last of his kind.

Au contrare.. the culture is rising.. it is rising due to the expansion of pseudo religious scholars. .. every person who just picked up translations on the internet of the Quran thinks he has found salvation.

 

[Multani]

beautifully explained. I admire Iqbal at the level of sainthood. I read his Persian and Urdu poetry and every now and then It just clicks and I wonderful at the depth of his thoughts a wonderful poet. Murd e Momin and Shaheen concept has no relevance to extremist Islam there is no need to feel defensive and lament over it. NFP has an opinion but I chose to disagree because he is being unfairly selective and crude in his comparison.
has he conveniently forgotten that its the same Iqbal who is urging the Muslims to follow a Shia Jinnah and ...

hold your breath my fellow Muslims... and he states that the Toheed is best explained by Mirza Ghulam Ahmed (the spiritual leader and founder of Ahmedi faith) it caused a lot of butt hurt among the Jamat Islami type of Muslims and he was called a kafir etc too.. and then the usual Sharabi" accusation...
NFP misses that too?

what says he? a guy who is folling a shia "karif", praising the Aqeeda Toheed of Ahemdi "Kafirs".. indulges in liquor too is Moududi's partner in extremism?


Sadqain has taken up some of Iqbal's verses and drew some mind blowing pictures .. "Falq Daikh , Zamin daikh...."

Iqbal imploring you to discover the universe within and without. bucking you up, telling you to put your chin up. all that during the worse time of Indian slavery under the British empire.

Allamah Iqbal was not an Islamic Scholar. And his opinions evolved over time. Coming into contact with certain Islamic Scholars, he changed his views regarding Mirza Ghulam Qadiani

 

[DESERT FIGHTER]

Retarded addict...

 

[M. Sarmad]

It's very easy to run away. This is what Paracha does. He cannot take criticism of himself, but is on to criticize Allamah Iqbal

Really ??
No my friend , criticism is always good . NFP`s views are biased and I do not agree with his views . And I made it clear in my first post here . I am only defending "freedom of expression" . But one thing is for sure , NFP is much more knowledgeable than the fellows here who are abusing him for his views !!