N-deal with Pak could hit ties, India cautions China

[Prometheus]

no he is another Times of India fanboy it has nothing to do with reality ....... ignore

Zaki Bhai...........you should have waited till my response to his post.

BTW for ur Kind info............I read The Tribune not TOI (In punjab ,people dont read TOI that much)

 

[GUNNER]

go throu this thread.............everything will be cleared

http://www.defence.pk/forums/kashmir-war/36451-india-asks-china-stay-out-azad-kashmir.html

Well, my dear friend..I have gone through the story, for which you gave the link. Thanks for taking the time. But, i don't think you have read it carefully.

The story, which is dated Oct 2009, quotes Indian External Affairs Ministry spokesman saying ""We hope that the Chinese side will take a long term view of the India-China relations, and cease such activities in areas illegally occupied by Pakistan.”

And, there is no response of the Chinese to this hope. So, your assertion, that after Indian demand China had stopped work in AJK, is not supported in the story.

Furthermore, let me enlighten you with the fact that Chinese companies are still in run for several projects in AJK.

 

[Ras]

Ok I accept it as stupid reaction from India. Please explain why your country can give fighter jets, Drones to Pakistan but not Civil N deal ?

Because the current US government is run by leftist non-proliferation hawks. The Indian nuclear deal would never ever have been accepted by the current administration.

 

[Prometheus]

Well, my dear friend..I have gone through the story, for which you gave the link. Thanks for taking the time. But, i don't think you have read it carefully.

The story, which is dated Oct 2009, quotes Indian External Affairs Ministry spokesman saying ""We hope that the Chinese side will take a long term view of the India-China relations, and cease such activities in areas illegally occupied by Pakistan.”

And, there is no response of the Chinese to this hope. So, your assertion, that after Indian demand China had stopped work in AJK, is not supported in the story.

Furthermore, let me enlighten you with the fact that Chinese companies are still in run for several projects in AJK.

plz go throu the thread not just the news article

 

[GUNNER]

plz go throu the thread not just the news article

You should have read the last sentence of my post, which you quoted !

 

[username]

yes indeed we witnessed that when huwai was banned,how heat was going up in china

They even said that they will give source code etc... may be if stressed they could even have said about design docs, test suits, test environment, TOT etc...

 

[Hulk]

No he didn't let out any clues.

He just told me - as several Police and Pakistan Government officials have said publicly - that India is supporting terrorism in Pakistan and the attack against the SL team was funded and ordered by RAW. India has long been running a campaign of terror in Pakistan, so I don't know what shocks you about the above disclosure.

Well what the police officer said/believed is of no value. If they had any proof they should have given it to the world, held a press conference etc. I do not think they had any.

 

[TechLahore]

Well what the police officer said/believed is of no value. If they had any proof they should have given it to the world, held a press conference etc. I do not think they had any.

Correction. It is of no value to *you*. What is of value to you, or not, is immaterial to us. So the game goes.

And no, they shouldn't have given proof in a press conference or pressed this point too much like the Indians do. They know that India is inimical to Pakistan and no press conference will change this. They, as police and intelligence officers, need to simply find and kill the terrorists. They should leave foreign policy to the foreign office.

 

[RescueRanger]

Beat all the drums you want, Pakistan has every right to enchance its capacity. i for one will let time be the judge on this matter. It is disgusting to see the attitude of some indian members regarding Pakistan.

 

[foxbat]

You're right. You being a part of the conversation wouldn't have been possible.

The net-net is that the terror attack in Lahore was funded by India and carried out on the instructions of RAW. I am not interested in a debate or discussion on this simply because I see this incidence of terror as one more episode in a long running exchange between India and Pakistan. It is no surprise to me that India was behind this. And you will see the same attitude on the part of the Pakistan government. We know India has connections with several terror outfits in Pakistan, and we also know that by us harping on this, India is not about to have second thoughts and suddenly give up these linkages. Therefore the best way to combat this is to find and kill these terrorists and the people who form the links back to RAW.

If you believe that RAW is a very innocent organization that is not a cloak and dagger outfit, but rather a very well behaved research and analysis wing for improving India's agricultural output, or reducing levels of pollution in Mumbai, then be my guest. When you get a chance, you might want to pick up "Profiles of Intelligence" by Brig. (retd) Tirmizi. You may find the parts about Indian intelligence ops in Pakistan interesting.

I understand your desire to not have a discussion on this since the evidence, details etc are all too sketchy to have a constructive debate. I appreciate your honesty of admitting that Pakistan does similar acts in India in an ongoing exchange between the 2 countries. I dont believe India had any role in the attack on Sri lankan team but then you have your beliefs and I have mine and we can agree to disagree since neither of us can convince the other

About RAW, well it better not be an innocent babe in the woods as I don't want my tax Rupees to fund an innocent spy agency (an oxymoron if I saw one). I want it to be more ruthless, cruel, and unscrupulous than any other spy agency and pay the folks who attack India in the same coin with Interest. I am a firm believer that whatever RAW does (no matter what it is), is for good of India and like most Indians stand firmly behind it.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Move back to the thread topic please.

 

[DesiGuy]

I don't even know, why people are making so big issue out of it.

India and Pakistan are enimes and we all know that.

So expect at least this from enemy.

 

[foxbat]

but whats the point of objecting. I dont think India would have officially objected to it since India clearly said during the talks on US Pak deal that the discussion is between US and Pak and India has no stake there. Unless there is a named source that backs up India's reach out to China on this, I believe its just the media going nuts..

 

[ramu]

but whats the point of objecting. I dont think India would have officially objected to it since India clearly said during the talks on US Pak deal that the discussion is between US and Pak and India has no stake there. Unless there is a named source that backs up India's reach out to China on this, I believe its just the media going nuts..

There is a good reason for the objection. Do you not think that a deal that has the elements of the most potent technology known to man should follow some regulations setout ?
Pakistan indeed is in need of nuclear technology for civilian use and they should have it. All I am asking is the unnecessary hurry that Pakistan is showing. India started with the nuclear deal proposal in 2004 or before and it took them a good 6 years to clear the air and build the atmosphere with the help of US and Russia to get it through.

Pakistan is in immediate need of electricity but it has not even used the current hydro electric capability available in the country. The problem I see with the deal is the bilateral nature of the deal with very little information out for public scrutiny. Even if the deal follows the best practices and norms, without the obligation of a governing framework, this will indeed set a precedent and a free for all problems that can result in dangerous consequences.

Let us for example consider a possibility of Bangladesh getting a similar deal from India in the civil nuclear arena and the resultant fallout in Burma and so on.


Pakistan and China should follow the international obligations and not use back door means to get a deal.

 

[SpArK]

Pakistan-China civilian nuclear deal


Pakistan-China civilian nuclear deal

19 June 2010

Pakistan has long sought a civilian nuclear deal on the lines of a critical agreement signed between Washington and New Delhi in 2008.

Denied this by the US for concerns linked to nuclear proliferation that occurred some years back, Islamabad has been striving to achieve this through other means. Well now it seems to have achieved this objective through its long time ally, China that is to provide it two civilian-use nuclear reactors. As expected, this has raised many an eyebrow in Washington and also in Pakistan’s neighbourhood.

The US has asked China for clarifications on particulars of the deal and is expected to take up the issue in the Nuclear Supply Group’s (NSG) meeting next week. A member of the NSG since 2004, China has said that it’s agreement with Pakistan dates from before. Also it’s long standing cooperation with Pakistan on the nuclear front has always been in line with the International Atomic Energy Agency’s strictures. As an NSG member state, China is obliged to not export dual use nuclear fuel, nuclear material and technology to another state lacking strict IAEA safeguards. The US position on the issue is obvious. It is not comfortable with the deal and is likely to oppose it in the upcoming NSG meeting. It is striving to place this for specific exemption before a consensual vote in the NSG meeting.

Pakistan maintains that it is strictly following IAEA safeguards for its existing military and civilian use nuclear reactors. Islamabad put tighter security controls following unearthing of proliferation by its top nuclear scientist Abdul Qadeer Khan, who has been kept under detention since 2004. For Pakistan, China’s support is critical in realising its ambitions of developing a civilian use energy programme. It has been facing a serious energy shortage which is likely to worsen over time. While Islamabad dismissed any concerns following the disclosure of the civilian use reactors with China, it is likely to be on tenterhooks for potential hitches, clearly on the horizon.

Islamabad, has found it hard to digest the awarding of a civilian nuclear fuel deal to India, a non-signatory of the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty and one that developed its own nuclear programme covertly. It’s persistent pressure on Washington to provide it with a similar arrangement has met with little success. So the deal with Beijing is a victory of sorts.

It is precisely why India has reason to feel perturbed. A further strengthening of strategic cooperation between Beijing and Islamabad is particularly disturbing for New Delhi. It has already cautioned Beijing of ties being affected in case of the deal coming to fruition.

The US needs to realise that it cannot control or dictate developments between third states no matter how distasteful they may be. It must not forget that China would not have done this if it was not comfortable with controls and security measures implemented by Pakistan. It is also a good opportunity for Pakistan to alleviate previous concerns about proliferation and prove it is a responsible nuclear state, one that deserves due respect.