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Myths about Urdu

bilalhaider said:
The kids from Lucknow don't speak pure Urdu, yes their pronunciation is similar to the way Pakistanis pronounce words as compared to Indian Hindus, but the language they speak is littered with English.
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We are destroying Urdu in Pakistan also. Many Pakistanis consider it a status symbol to pepper their Urdu speech with English words. :tdown:

Only the literary elite know proper Urdu. Here's a taste of Urdu's awesome beauty.

(This is my all time most favorite song. Ever! :))

Jaan-e-baharan, rashk-e-chaman
Guncha dahan, seemi badan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan

Jannat ki hooray tujh pay fida
Rafter jaisay mauj-e-sabah
Rangeen ada tauba shikan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan

Shamay firoza aankhay teri
Harr ik nazar may jaadu gari
Zulfay teri mushk-e-husan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan.

Aye naaz parwar naaz aafreen
Lakhon haseen hay tujh sa nahi
Khanda jabeen, shirin sukhan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan.
Raskhe chaman,
Guncha dahan, seemi badan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan

YouTube - Beautiful song for Beautiful People - Jaan e Baharan By Saleem Raza
 
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bilalhaider said:
Say that to a Lukhnavi from India and you'll get a lesson in Urdu.

You're right, but unfortunately; that was in the older generations of people from Lucknow. I have extended family in Lucknow, the grandfathers of Lucknow still speak Khaalis Urdu, however, the young generation of people from Lucknow are utterly clueless of the beauty of the language. My cousins from Lucknow mix a lot of English into their Urdu, so I would say what you said is true only for people over their 50's. The kids from Lucknow don't speak pure Urdu, yes their pronunciation is similar to the way Pakistanis pronounce words as compared to Indian Hindus, but the language they speak is littered with English.
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I agree with you to an extent. It might be that they dont normally use pure Urdu while talking but have they lost the ability to speak Urdu? I for one know Punjabi like a pendu but I dont often use it in my workplace or with my urban friends. So it depends if your cousins mix English words by choice or because they dont know their Urdu substitutes.

And I guess the basis of the argument from Pakistani members is that Urdu is dissimilar to Hindi. I think we have established in many ways that an overwhelming percentage of the language is same. The fact that an Urdu speaking Pakistani and a Hindi speaking Indian can converse without any problem is a proof of that.
 
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Omar1984 said:
Spare us with your orange media. indians are only good at destroying the poetic Urdu language.
Click to expand...

For an Elite member, you do a lot of cherry picking, wont you say?

Abir showed you a verified link from a news source and all you could do in reply was to post a Bollywood song. Hell, Bollywood even rips off our Punjabi folk songs. And since when is Bollywood music considered to be the expert specimen of language?
 
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Developereo said:
We are destroying Urdu in Pakistan also. Many Pakistanis consider it a status symbol to pepper their Urdu speech with English words. :tdown:

Only the literary elite know proper Urdu. Here's a taste of Urdu's awesome beauty.

(This is my all time most favorite song. Ever! :))

Jaan-e-baharan, rashk-e-chaman
Guncha dahan, seemi badan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan

Jannat ki hooray tujh pay fida
Rafter jaisay mauj-e-sabah
Rangeen ada tauba shikan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan

Shamay firoza aankhay teri
Harr ik nazar may jaadu gari
Zulfay teri mushk-e-husan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan.

Aye naaz parwar naaz aafreen
Lakhon haseen hay tujh sa nahi
Khanda jabeen, shirin sukhan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan.
Raskhe chaman,
Guncha dahan, seemi badan
Aye jaan-e-mann, jaan-e-baharan

YouTube - Beautiful song for Beautiful People - Jaan e Baharan By Saleem Raza
Click to expand...

No offense, but with respect to lil bit Urdu literature that I came across(from older pre-partition generation), it sounds more persian/arabic than Urdu. Seems Pakistan is doing to Urdu exactly what India did to Hindi. One is persianise Urdu another Sankritise Hindi.
 
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Kutt@_Bimar said:
For an Elite member, you do a lot of cherry picking, wont you say?

Abir showed you a verified link from a news source and all you could do in reply was to post a Bollywood song. Hell, Bollywood even rips off our Punjabi folk songs. And since when is Bollywood music considered to be the expert specimen of language?
Click to expand...

It copies from Bengali as well. But we don't cry about it, do we? Ranting about it only shows the complex! :lol:
 
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Abir said:
It copies from Bengali as well. But we don't cry about it, do we? Ranting about it only shows the complex! :lol:
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I know, man. Half of Bappi Lahiri's hit tunes in the 80s was lifted straight off the Baol folks songs that you guys have in WB. Only a dim-witted person would take that as a genuine sample of Bengali music.
 
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Abir said:
No offense, but with respect to lil bit Urdu literature that I came across(from older pre-partition generation), it sounds more persian/arabic than Urdu. Seems Pakistan is doing to Urdu exactly what India did to Hindi. One is persianise Urdu another Sankritise Hindi.
Click to expand...

Well, that was the point of Ejaz's original post. Both Urdu and Hindi started out from common roots and went their separate ways. Almost all languages have borrowed words, but those words then become an integral part of the language.

Your point is valid in that literary Urdu has a heavier mix of Persian words as opposed to the vernacular form.
 
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We are destroying Urdu in Pakistan also. Many Pakistanis consider it a status symbol to pepper their Urdu speech with English words.

Only the literary elite know proper Urdu. Here's a taste of Urdu's awesome beauty.

You are right: but Pakistan does not claim to be the Mecca for Urdu, but the people in Lucknow do claim that. Anyways, it is extremely complexed young individuals that go to private schools, and speak accented English that usually mix Urdu up with their English. I studied in a private school in Pakistan, but fortunately didn't have that problem. The funny thing is, the moment I left Pakistan 10 years ago, my love for Urdu has deepened. I started reading Urdu poetry, reading "Jang" everyday. When people found out I used to read "Jang" everyday, they thought I had gone crazy. It's the kids that go to private schools, and then on their Daddy's money for college abroad. I have chastisized my Urdu, removing all the English words I can from my Urdu. I must say, it does become a bit difficult talking to some regular people sometimes, who think I'm "crazy" for speaking in c;ean Urdu. For example: I use "multawi" for delay, "chawaalis" for 44, "tibbi imdad" for healthcare etc: you get what I'm saying. Some people think I'm being smug about my Urdu, calling me an "Urdu-daan", like a "science-daan". It can be a bit unnerving sometimes, but Urdu is worth putting this much effort for.

However, I don't think it's all bad in Pakistan. If you want to hear clear, clean Urdu free from English; listen to any student from a government school speak. They speak clean Urdu, and they can speak pretty good English as well. The standards of Metric and Inter/Fsc have improved significantly over time.
 
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Kutt@_Bimar said:
I know, man. Half of Bappi Lahiri's hit tunes in the 80s was lifted straight off the Baol folks songs that you guys have in WB. Only a dim-witted person would take that as a genuine sample of Bengali music.
Click to expand...

Most songs of Sachin Dev Burman were actually Bengali folks(although I won't call it plagiarism as Sachin karta was Bengali himself). I'd rather say Bollywood gave exposure to songs which was once sung by boatmen of rivers in Bengal).

Some guys are really pumped with false ego.
 
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Abir said:
Most songs of Sachin Dev Burman were actually Bengali folks(although I won't call it plagiarism as Sachin karta was Bengali himself). I'd rather say Bollywood gave exposure to songs which was once sung by boatmen of rivers in Bengal).

Some guys are really pumped with false ego, and that for a language which is not their native at all! :P
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Yeah, SD was heavily inspired by folk. And he actually had a good exposure to NE folk as well, since he was brought up in Tripura. RD on the other hand, experimented more with Western beats. But we need a separate thread for this discussion. Actually I must thank Omar for leading us into this interesting discussion. :lol:
 
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Developereo said:
Well, that was the point of Ejaz's original post. Both Urdu and Hindi started out from common roots and went their separate ways. Almost all languages have borrowed words, but those words then become an integral part of the language.

Your point is valid in that literary Urdu has a heavier mix of Persian words as opposed to the vernacular form.
Click to expand...

I have no objection with Persian words in Urdu which gives it a distinct hue, but that process shouldn't be artificial, ie. we shouldn't shove Persian or Sanskrit words for religious or political interest.

Same thing has been done to Hindi as well, and we have our funny Rashtriya Bhasha full of bulky Sanskrit words!
 
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