My real ‘crime’: Standing up for U.S.-Pakistan relations

[Solomon2]

I believe that agreeing to give a foreign government the green light to conduct any and as many operations as it wants is being a traitor and a scoundrel

Under UNSCR 1373 Pakistan has the binding sovereign obligation to eliminate terrorists, terror havens, etc. from its territory. As Pakistan has failed to comply, it has no sovereign grounds to object when others attack terrorists on its territory, either through drone strikes or through raids like the one that killed OBL - or if India decided to pursue LeT. The memo, then, maps a framework for Pakistan to REGAIN that lost sovereignty. (As a second function, it caters to the Pakistani military's fears about the U.S. targeting Pakistan's nukes by reassuring the U.S. of its "discipline".)

 

[truthseer]

I held all pakistani political parties in high regard. I was not being contenptuous your honour.

The honour of the supreme court is lessened by every jest thou are making. Cease and desist at once or I shall be forced to file a petition

Under UNSCR 1373 Pakistan has the binding sovereign obligation to eliminate terrorists, terror havens, etc. from its territory. As Pakistan has failed to comply, it has no sovereign grounds to object when others attack terrorists on its territory, either through drone strikes or through raids like the one that killed OBL - or if India decided to pursue LeT. The memo, then, maps a framework for Pakistan to REGAIN that lost sovereignty. (As a second function, it caters to the Pakistani military's fears about the U.S. targeting Pakistan's nukes by reassuring the U.S. of its "discipline".)

Terrorism is defined as:

"criminal acts, including against civilians, committed with the intent to cause death or serious bodily injury, or taking of hostages, with the purpose to provoke a state of terror in the general public or in a group of persons or particular persons, intimidate a population or compel a government or an international organization to do or to abstain from doing any act."

The Taliban in the tribal areas can not be comprehensively proved to be doing these acts. Therefore, your argument is stupid. Also, it is the responsibility of the army, not a foreign force to do so. This is why Haqqani must be impaled, burned in oil and then hanged to death after being skinned alive

 

[Solomon2]

The role of the judiciary is to implement the laws of the lands, whether they be devised by a civilian or dictatorial government. This renders your entire point moot

Pakistan's SC has additional functions.

 

[truthseer]

Pakistan's SC has additional functions.

Would you kindly elucidate how any of the other functions of the honourable supreme court make it political in any shape or form?

 

[Solomon2]

The Taliban in the tribal areas can not be comprehensively proved to be doing these acts.

This is a variation of the old "What is terrorism?" debate. That's not one of the reasons advanced by Pakistani officials for not pursuing the Taliban.

Also, it is the responsibility of the army, not a foreign force to do so.

Neither Pakistan's Army, nor its government, has the authority to withhold fulfilling the terms of UNSCR 1373. In view of the demonstrated inaction by Pakistan, it forfeits its sovereign rights with regards to terrorists within its borders.

You're already aware Pakistan has no support abroad. Do you really want the U.N. Security Council to issue a formal rebuke?

 

[truthseer]

This is a variation of the old "What is terrorism?" debate. That's not one of the reasons advanced by Pakistani officials for not pursuing the Taliban.

Regardless, as long as one does not conclusively prove that they are terrorists within that definition, no sovereign rights are lost

Neither Pakistan's Army, nor its government, has the authority to withhold fulfilling the terms of UNSCR 1373. In view of the demonstrated inaction by Pakistan, it forfeits its sovereign rights with regards to terrorists within its borders.

You're already aware Pakistan has no support abroad. Do you really want the U.N. Security Council to issue a formal rebuke?

Considering the power of the UN which is indeed, so fearful, I believe we should be more scared of a cat meowing at us. Also, the terms of that resolution are so vague that any person with even the slightest of legal experience could defend Pakistan at the UN

 

[Solomon2]

Would you kindly elucidate how any of the other functions of the honourable supreme court make it political in any shape or form?

Due to the Pakistani Supreme Court's unique invocation of "Doctrine of Necessity" it sits as a judge of extra-legal activity by state institutions and officials - and now, with this Commission, the judge of legal activity by state institutions and officials as well.

Regardless, as long as one does not conclusively prove that they are terrorists within that definition, no sovereign rights are lost -

Since UNSCR 1373 is a Chapter VII resolution that supersedes domestic laws that means Pakistan cannot down-define "who is a terrorist" to suit its particular wishes.

Considering the power of the UN which is indeed, so fearful, I believe we should be more scared of a cat meowing at us. Also, the terms of that resolution are so vague that any person with even the slightest of legal experience could defend Pakistan at the UN

UNSCR 1373 is rather unique. As for your claim, reports to UNSCR 1373's intelligence arm have been classified for the past six years. It doesn't take much imagination to realize that these reports may amount to more than a cat's meow, does it?

 

[Hyde]

No replies, no comments, no Pakistani is interested - they made up their minds without listening to the accused, without even considering the evidence, all on the basis of established authority promoting and focusing their collective frustrations and hatreds.

The memo commission report made everything crystal clear. If you could understand the Urdu language you could watch the video posted in this thread. Some key points are also mentioned in the post #9 of this thread but I didn't write every detail otherwise it would have taken pages to explain the video

http://www.defence.pk/forums/national-political-issues/187373-hussain-haqqani.html#post3054901

 

[Solomon2]

The memo commission report made everything crystal clear. If you could understand the Urdu language you could watch the video posted in this thread.

Can't understand Urdu, sorry.

Some key points are also mentioned in the post #9 -

What "key points"?

 

[Redbull]

Strengthening ties with US means we loose more money, best thing to do is get compensation from all those US equipment stuck in Pakistan then show US the middle finger. Also Haqqani should be crucified not put in prison, that way future traitors will think a million times.

 

[Solomon2]

All persons are not equal.
Some's words are evidence. Some's are hearsay.
Usurpation of constitution may be Patriotism.
Writing a few words: treason.

- Satyameva Jayate

 

[Albatross]

Can't understand Urdu, sorry.

What "key points"?

Mullen admitted he received a memo..
Exclusive: Mullen confirms existence of secret memo; Pakistani ambassador offers to resign | The Cable

jim jones admitted he received a memo as well and then fwded it to mullen
http://www.foreignpolicy.com/files/fp_uploaded_documents/111216_Affadavit.pdf

Besides these facts pak court consulted independent guys from west to examine contents of mansoor ijaz phone and laptop and they proved real confirming all the communication b/w haqqani and mansoor..

these are the facts now keepin in mind yr track record of distorting truth solomon i would like to see how yu playball here now..

 

[Redbull]

All persons are not equal.
Some's words are evidence. Some's are hearsay.
Usurpation of constitution may be Patriotism.
Writing a few words: treason.

- Satyameva Jayate

Since your a christian, remember Jesus said somewhere in the bible "By the fruits you should know them". So judge him by his actions which are all suspicous.

 

[Solomon2]

Here's the order, followed by my critique (assuming the memo is "genuine", of course):

Final Conclusion and findings:

(1) The Hon’ble Supreme Court appointed this Commission to probe,
“to ascertain the origin, authenticity and purpose of creating /
drafting of Memo for delivering it to Chairman of the Us Joint Chiefs
of Staff Admiral Mike Mullen.”

(2) It has been incontrovertibly established that the Memorandum was
authentic and Mr. Haqqani was the originator and architect of the
Memorandum. Mr. Haqqani Sought American Help; he also wanted
to create a niche for himself making himself forever indispensable
to the Americans. He lost sight of the fact that he is a Pakistani
Citizen and Pakistan’s Ambassador to the United States of America,
and therefore his loyalty could only be to Pakistan.

That is NOT a judgment of the law, that is a subjective interpretation of the facts. In the absence of a specific crime, the judgment of the proper pursuit and performance of an official's duties is an executive one, not judicial.

(3) Mr. Haqqani’s by offering his services as part of a proposed
‘national security team’ to a foreign government, voicing the ‘great
fears’ that ‘Pakistan’s nuclear assets are now legitimate targets’
and thus seeking to bring ‘Pakistan’s nuclear assets under a more
verifiable, transparent regime,’ stating that ISI maintains ‘relations
to the Taliban’ and offering to ‘eliminate Section S of the ISI and to
help ‘ pigeon – hole the forces lined up against your interests’
created fissures in the body politic and were acts of disloyalty to
Pakistan, that contravened the Constitution of Pakistan.

So "creating fissures" by attempting to assert civilian authority over that of the intelligence services is an act of disloyalty?

(4) The purpose of the Memorandum was to show that the civilian
government was friends of America, but needed to be strengthened
to prevail upon the army and the intelligence agencies, and to be
able to do so American help was required to set up a civilian
national security team, to be headed by Mr. Haqqani.

(5) There can be no two views that terrorism must be contested,
terrorists fought, nuclear proliferation opposed, civilians (and not
the military) determine foreign policy and the ship of State guided 5
by civilian hands at the helm; however, what is not acceptable is
for Pakistan’s Ambassador to beseech a foreign government to with
impunity meddle in and run our affairs.

An ambassador is a sovereign representative. Unless Pakistan's executive - it's president, yes? - claims the ambassador, in writing this memo, exceeded his authority to represent the executive then Haqqani's actions were legal and proper.

(6) We may observe that Mr. Haqqani has chosen not to live in
Pakistan, has been working in USA, where he appeared to have
made his life, held no property or asset in Pakistan, held no money
(save a paltry amount ) in a Pakistani bank, but despite having no
obvious ties to Pakistan was appointed to the extremely sensitive
position of Pakistan’s Ambassador to the USA, and in addition to
being paid a salary and accompanying emoluments was handed a
largesse of over an amount of two million dollars a year.

The Court is not "observing" but in condemning Haqqani is passing judgment on something that is not a crime.

One last point: Haqqani's lawyers argue,

“The commission was only supposed to report on the validity of the accusations,” says Zahid Bukhari. “Per that mandate, they were only supposed to collect evidence and submit a report of their findings—providing any recommendations or making any judgments about Husain Haqqani’s loyalty to Pakistan was and is beyond their ambit.”

 

[Albatross]

So you got the verdict and so you do understand now why he is being implicated and what are the proofs against him something yu were really missing..Common sense as yu do believe too memo did exist where else from such a memo can originate..Yeah the commission went little beyond its jurisdiction but it is justified by the dodging attitude of haqqani who left pakistan after swearing that he will come on a four day notice but ran away to his employers in states and never came back despite several summons which indeed did infuriate the commission and general Pak public..