My PAK-FA analysis

[Tiger Awan]

Sir

I dont think PAK-FA is supposed to compete with F 22.

PAK-FA may not compete F-22 or F-35 in a combat but it is surely going to compete them in international market. And it has got some plus point also for this competition like cost effectiveness.

 

[gogbot]

i personally don't think that the reduction of RCS( say some modification in air frame ) would increase the cost by that much, if you won't bring some amendments in JF-17 then what will be idea behind the BlockII
may be i am wrong

reducing RCS can be achieved a number of ways, Majority of which punch up the price
And cost of Maintenance.

The rest wont give you a reduction enough to even be classified as Stealth. Your sending money reduce RCS, which not effect the planes survivability in anyway, at that point

Modification of F-16 out of question & as for FC-20, its Specifications are not out yet

Well they are better alternatives than the JF-17

 

[Contrarian]

I highly dough MKI will be given MLU anytime soon. a final deal may be finalized in couple of years but IAF can not simply afford to phase out 20-30 million dollars worth of equipment when they have hardly hardly clocked 1/3 of their service life. I hope common sense prevails.

My bad, the time frame should be around 2015. Its not about the service life, but about technology. The entire gamut of things in the MKI has to be upgraded. the technology being used right now is the same that was finalized in 2000.

 

[applesauce]

^^^

Gogbot he never meant a true stealth plane & you have reached internal weapons bay , even French didnt went for a 5th Gen plane, why. because their theory was to develop a plane which will incorporate features of 5th gen & has low low observability, he's trying to say that we must reduce the RCS as much as possible & French avionics are already on the way i hope we go for Spectra EW suite, this will make JF-17 a decent a 4.5 Gen A/C, I hope so

Growler you can make people........

well one of the fastest way is to simple use more composite materials in the airframe that right there will reduce RCS cost more but the point is reducing can be done of course the more u want to reduce the more tinkering must be done

 

[gogbot]

well one of the fastest way is to simple use more composite materials in the airframe that right there will reduce RCS cost more but the point is reducing can be done of course the more u want to reduce the more tinkering must be done

That increases the price and requires changes to the entire production line.

Why do people pretend as though they have blank chekcs

 

[applesauce]

That increases the price and requires changes to the entire production line.

Why do people pretend as though they have blank chekcs

obviously it increases price im just sick of people who act like it cant be done, my point is it can at a cost, and who said anything about a blank check?

 

[foxbat]

PAK-FA may not compete F-22 or F-35 in a combat but it is surely going to compete them in international market. And it has got some plus point also for this competition like cost effectiveness.

I dont think F 22 is for export at all.. And my guess is PAK FA will come in at around 100 mil (today's price). So commercially also it wont go up against Raptor. And if its really stealth which in all probability it will be, then F 35 (at a tag of over a 100 mill) also doesnt compete..

I believe, in PAK FA, Russia has managed to find a niche that is not serviced by even a single plane in today's scenario. Chinese J-xx seems to be the closest one but very little is known there.

 

[Tiger Awan]

I dont think F 22 is for export at all.. And my guess is PAK FA will come in at around 100 mil (today's price). So commercially also it wont go up against Raptor. And if its really stealth which in all probability it will be, then F 35 (at a tag of over a 100 mill) also doesnt compete..

I believe, in PAK FA, Russia has managed to find a niche that is not serviced by even a single plane in today's scenario. Chinese J-xx seems to be the closest one but very little is known there.

O yeah F-22 is not for sale. Thing like these happen when semester finals are approaching.

 

[hembo]

- It may have more radars but you simply can not judge anything when you do not have specs at your hands. At most PAK-FA radar technology is comparable with F-35 considering massive R&D F-22 cost and they are not going to simply produce something that can be over taken by 10X less R&D PAK-FA project or any other.
~~snip~~

A famous joke comes to the mind. It goes something like:

For their space mission, the US had one last big headache to sort out: How to perform writing in zero gravity where ordinary ball pen or fountain pen ink ceases to flow.

Finally after lot of R&D and spending millions of Dollars, they finally could design a special pen which could be used in zero gravity as well.

Guess what the Russians did to overcome the same problem......




They used a pencil!!!

 

[DaRk WaVe]

A famous joke comes to the mind. It goes something like:

For their space mission, the US had one last big headache to sort out: How to perform writing in zero gravity where ordinary ball pen or fountain pen ink ceases to flow.

Finally after lot of R&D and spending millions of Dollars, they finally could design a special pen which could be used in zero gravity as well.

Guess what the Russians did to overcome the same problem......


They used a pencil!!!

you made my day

'Russian Desi Engineering'

 

[jaunty]

A famous joke comes to the mind. It goes something like:

For their space mission, the US had one last big headache to sort out: How to perform writing in zero gravity where ordinary ball pen or fountain pen ink ceases to flow.

Finally after lot of R&D and spending millions of Dollars, they finally could design a special pen which could be used in zero gravity as well.

Guess what the Russians did to overcome the same problem......




They used a pencil!!!

What if the tip of the pencil gets broken and goes to someone's eyes. BTW this joke has been used in 3 Idiots.

 

[xebex]

- It may have more radars but you simply can not judge anything when you do not have specs at your hands.

Growler, I was waiting for u to make a comment like this. You dont know the full, official specs of PAKFA to claim that it would be inferior to F22 and F35 in terms of stealth. All u got is just an assumption from looking at the physical appearance of the aircraft. Thatz not enough to judge, mate. Yes, the angle-to-angle finish and geometric sides and edges may not seem similar to F22, but why u guys insist the design should be the American way??. No!

Its pretty pathetic for people to have a mentality that the first stealth aircraft was designed by United States; therefore, future Russian or Indian or even Chinese Stealth aircraft should look like the American aircraft otherwise it wont be as stealthy as the American and will be inferior?. U guys need to think outside the box.

PAK FA's RCS is not officially published yet by SUKHOI (not gonna be btw)to finalize that PAKFA is inferior to F22 in terms of Stealth. If they do, then be carefull believing it. Bcoz, If I owns a PAKFA and my neighbour got a radar, I would give my neighbour a big RCS value so that he will under-estimate me.

 

[BATMAN]

So i'm confused now!
one indian guy says pakfa is not meant to compare with f22, other says it is even better some even claim the radar on mki is better than f22 and one guy said 250 pak fa vs lesser f22 and othe rguy said it is destined ot be feilded against Chin aand no tPakistan where as historically indians have always fielded their best against Pakistan and mki is one example!
end result is that it is premature to discuss pakfa while we don't know of any new engine, avionics and wepons.

 

[Kinshuk]

Doesn't matter in the end if it is at par with f-22, its still going to be better than EF and in south east Asia, no one is going to have one except for India itself in case it wins the MMRCA.

Think about that.

 

[foxbat]

So i'm confused now!
one indian guy says pakfa is not meant to compare with f22, other says it is even better some even claim the radar on mki is better than f22 and one guy said 250 pak fa vs lesser f22 and othe rguy said it is destined ot be feilded against Chin aand no tPakistan where as historically indians have always fielded their best against Pakistan and mki is one example!
end result is that it is premature to discuss pakfa while we don't know of any new engine, avionics and wepons.

Sir

Firstly I said compete not compare. The intention was to say that in the foreseeable future, a PAK-FA will never need to go up against an F 22 and hence it being inferior or superior to Raptor is not so relevent.

Also on the China comment, you are right traditionally as at that time the top of the line planes of PAF and IAF were more or less evenly matched. That started chaning with the induction of SU 30 MKI in large numbers. And you can see the trend shifting with IAF fielding a lot of Flankers now in the North East region of India. At the end of the day, the distribution of assets will depend upon the threat perception from different fronts. And unless something changes significantly in the PAF situation, MMRCA(any one) and MKIs will be enough to counter the PAF threat and ensure Air superiority. Hence the need to deploy PAK-FA on the western front may be an over kill. Not to say though that in case of war (heaven forbid) post induction of PAK-FA, it wont be used for specialized strike missions deep inside the enemy territory..