Muslims in Middle Kingdom and Contemporary China Celebrating Festivals and More

[damm1t]

we'r the challenger to any established system

Capitalism?

 

[Edison Chen]

This is one of the best traditions in East Asia where state comes before any ideology and in China, if any religion is seen as a threat to the state, it is persecuted. In history, even Buddhism was persecuted until it was truly assimilated into Chinese culture.

Not only religion subordinated to the centralized authority, but the law, individual's mind as well, they all serve the need of ruling party.

 

[Aepsilons]

That didn't really answer my question. Is Asia a religion?

That's a leading question; my point is that religion is not the source of growth in the 21st century, it will be the Asia-focused economic platforms:

• Asian Development Bank
• TPP
  
• Asian Infrastructure Investment Bank
• SCO
• ASEAN
• Eurasian Economic Community
• China-centered Silk Road

Please note that religion has no role in these economic , political , strategic machinations.



Thanks.


@LeveragedBuyout , Sir, your intellectual conjecture would be much appreciated.

 

[cnleio]

Capitalism?

Why not ? Does China belong to tranditional Capitalism or Communism ... not.

 

[Indos]

Don't lie!! It's just few Chinese convert to islam

What I hated from your people is your habit to exaggerate things, not based on fact !

I dont lie, as it is a fact that some Chinese convert to Islam, but of course in majority Chinese ethnic in Indonesia is either a Christian, Catholic, or Budhis. This kind of trend has been like this since Dutch rule I believe and you are right that it is difficult to find Chinese ethnic in Indonesia who is Muslim, so rare.

 

[Aepsilons]

This is one of the best traditions in East Asia where state comes before any ideology and in China, if any religion is seen as a threat to the state, it is persecuted. In history, even Buddhism was persecuted until it was truly assimilated into Chinese culture.

It has to do with the role of the Imperial systems set in place for countless millenia in East Asia.

In Japan, the Emperor [Tenno] is considered in the Shinto Religion as the supreme pontifex maximus, the mediator between The God and man, the chief priest who vouchsafes the prayers of co-religionists unto the abode of The God in Heaven. So the relationship is clearly hierarchical :

1. The God Most Divine , Creator Spirit
2. The Emperor [Mediator of The God and Man; role of Pontifex Maximus = chief priest]
3. The Shogun [Political Ruler]
4. The Daimyo [Regional Ruler]
5. Samurai [Warriors/ Generals]
6. The Common man

The same also is the case in classical Imperial China, the Emperor was considered and regarded as 'Son of Heaven'. In the Chinese concept, the Emperor of Heaven [The God], gave mandate to rule in earth to the Emperor of China. The structure is clearly hierarchical. The same goes for Korea.

In fact this strong socio-cultural paradigm is what characterizes East Asia as a functionalist, utilitarian society. Religion , in the East Asian sense, has been used to build the construct the hierarchical structure, and this structure has been resistant and immune to foreign religious arrays into the region. I think this will remain so for the foreseeable future.

 

[Spectre]

It has to do with the role of the Imperial systems set in place for countless millenia in East Asia.

In Japan, the Emperor [Tenno] is considered in the Shinto Religion as the supreme pontifex maximus, the mediator between The God and man, the chief priest who vouchsafes the prayers of co-religionists unto the abode of The God in Heaven. So the relationship is clearly hierarchical :

1. The God Most Divine , Creator Spirit
2. The Emperor [Mediator of The God and Man; role of Pontifex Maximus = chief priest]
3. The Shogun [Political Ruler]
4. The Daimyo [Regional Ruler]
5. Samurai [Warriors/ Generals]
6. The Common man

The same also is the case in classical Imperial China, the Emperor was considered and regarded as 'Son of Heaven'. In the Chinese concept, the Emperor of Heaven [The God], gave mandate to rule in earth to the Emperor of China. The structure is clearly hierarchical. The same goes for Korea.

In fact this strong socio-cultural paradigm is what characterizes East Asia as a functionalist, utilitarian society. Religion , in the East Asian sense, has been used to build the construct the hierarchical structure, and this structure has been resistant and immune to foreign religious arrays into the region. I think this will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Excellent analysis

 

[Azizam]

It has to do with the role of the Imperial systems set in place for countless millenia in East Asia.

In Japan, the Emperor [Tenno] is considered in the Shinto Religion as the supreme pontifex maximus, the mediator between The God and man, the chief priest who vouchsafes the prayers of co-religionists unto the abode of The God in Heaven. So the relationship is clearly hierarchical :

1. The God Most Divine , Creator Spirit
2. The Emperor [Mediator of The God and Man; role of Pontifex Maximus = chief priest]
3. The Shogun [Political Ruler]
4. The Daimyo [Regional Ruler]
5. Samurai [Warriors/ Generals]
6. The Common man

The same also is the case in classical Imperial China, the Emperor was considered and regarded as 'Son of Heaven'. In the Chinese concept, the Emperor of Heaven [The God], gave mandate to rule in earth to the Emperor of China. The structure is clearly hierarchical. The same goes for Korea.

In fact this strong socio-cultural paradigm is what characterizes East Asia as a functionalist, utilitarian society. Religion , in the East Asian sense, has been used to build the construct the hierarchical structure, and this structure has been resistant and immune to foreign religious arrays into the region. I think this will remain so for the foreseeable future.

Excellent analysis. It seems ancient rulers in East Asian countries used their religions as a source of legitimacy to consolidate power. For this reason, they had to maintain the influence of religions that gave them legitimacy so any other religion that increased its influence was seen as a threat, in various periods of time in China, Buddhism was persecuted in favour of Taoism. How did East Asian countries reduced influence of their own religions on the state and how did the rulers manage to deal with the transition?

 

[Rasengan]

u need to improve ur knowledge on china's history if u want to talk about it. foot bound originated from song dynasty under the influence of rationalistic confucianism, nothing related to manchu's qing dynasty. manchurian women themselves didn't bind their feet. it was forbidden since the foundation of republic of china in 1911. u put foot bound and lingchi cruel torture together with pork eating as equivalent evil thing, thats only from ur eyes. in ordinary non-muslim chinese people, there is no diffence to eat pork, beef or sheep beyond the taste only. nothing more than that. eating pork is evil? tell me why eating beef is not evil. yes, change has always been happening, but why always other people change, while muslims do not change?

Please read my sentences properly and understand the entire content before commenting on my messages. I never advocated in my previous correspondence, that foot-binding originated from the Qing dynasty. However, I used the Qing dynasty as a example because it was the last Imperial Empire of China and its collapse signified the end of the practice of foot-binding. China contains 56 ethnic groups and most of their ancestors have all played a pivotal part in Chinese civilization and thus Chinese culture does not just revolve around the Han community.

Furthermore, scholars have debated on the origins of foot-binding and no consensus has been reached that the practice first started in the Song dynasty,. This is because there is evidence to suggest that foot-binding was inspired by the 10th century court dancer named Yao Niang who bounded her feet into a shape of a lotus to perform for Emperor Li Yu, during the Five Dynasties and Ten Kingdom era, which was just before the Song dynasty. However, some scholars have suggested that the practice was more prominent during the Song dynasty among the elite class. Difference of opinion and it depends on what your interpretation is.

Clearly you did not understand my previous message carefully and boldly made a statement without thinking first. I never equated the consumption of pork with the evil practices of foot-binding and Lingchi. I specifically advocated that Chinese culture has evolved and customs have changed throughout the centuries. For example among the nobility the practice of foot-binding was popular, however this no longer exists. The same formula can apply to pork consumption because preferences and taste always change. The same outcome can be also applied in the Middle East or any other region of the world.

 

[Indos]

@JUBA @Rasengan @Indus Falcon

I dont know why some posters here hate Islam so much.....

Just this morning I teach my relative (teenagers) living in USA about Islam, they have vacation in Jakarta now. Their parent ( Indonesians) are actually feared to have their kid learn Islam in USA as many teachers are Arab in Islamic Center there, and as you can see now in many part of the news channel and even in PDF that Saudi kind of Islamic teaching has become very bad in term of their image.

I believe there should be more room for Indonesian to be imam in USA mosque like in New York Mosque

Al-Hikmah Mosque, New York

 

[Aepsilons]

Excellent analysis. It seems ancient rulers in East Asian countries used their religions as a source of legitimacy to consolidate power. For this reason, they had to maintain the influence of religions that gave them legitimacy so any other religion that increased its influence was seen as a threat, in various periods of time in China, Buddhism was persecuted in favour of Taoism. How did East Asian countries reduced influence of their own religions on the state and how did the rulers manage to deal with the transition?

Precisely. Even if we were to examine China now, tho the country is Communist, it has retained much of that authoritarian, centralized governmental platform that had characterized the Chinese Imperial System. The Emperor of China was the living breathing manifestation of 'The State'. King Louis XIV said it best when he said , "Le'estat est moi" (I AM the State). Well , there is no better epitome of that saying than the Emperor of China as He was literally the center , the centrifugal force of the entire Chinese Empire. From the way the Emperor talked, to his preferences in literature, his favorite poems, his food preferences, his musical preferences, his preference in consorts, his waking and waning cycles --- literally was reiterated throughout the land as perfection and were to be emulated by his subjects. The absolute power of the Emperor also enabled rapid mobilization of the national resources by His whim; be it the mobilization of the army, the tax magistry, the educational magistry, the economic magistry, war planners, etc cetera et cetera.

Any force that threatened this power dynamic was repressed and silenced with relative impunity. This concept of 'Son of Heaven' is somewhat similar to some South Asian doctrines such as the 'Deva Raja' or 'God King'.

 

[Rasengan]

@JUBA @Rasengan @Indus Falcon

I dont know why some posters here hate Islam so much.....

Just this morning I teach my relative (teenagers) living in USA about Islam, they have vacation in Jakarta now. Their parent ( Indonesians) are actually feared to have their kid learn Islam in USA as many teachers are Arab in Islamic Center there, and as you can see now in many part of the news channel and even in PDF that Saudi kind of Islamic teaching has become very bad in term of their image.

People who show hatred towards Islam and Muslims must first think properly because they will cause division in there own society. No one should advocate the assumption that Islam is overtaking China, however a person should not insult the religious beliefs of others because unnecessary friction is created. In addition, Muslims must return to tradition instead of reading articles on the internet and becoming a part-time imam.

 

[prima99]

i'd like to post this video here. it's about a japanese idols visiting Istiqlal Mosque in Jakarta.

if japan can, why China can't?

it's not hurt for China to get more muslims. i remember back then when i'm still in indonesia, i can smoke and drink freely in public area during Ramadhan. the people doesn't care about it, the way i like it. China can into our examples and much easier into it IMO, because they have as many diversities as us.

i dunno about other islamic countries, but i doubt a non-muslim can enter any mosque. correct me if i'm wrong though.

 

[Rasengan]

i dunno about other islamic countries, but i doubt a non-muslim can enter any mosque. correct me if i'm wrong though.

Actually Non-Muslims can enter and visit any Mosque in most Muslim countries and even in the western world.

 

[Indos]

In addition, Muslims must return to tradition instead of reading articles on the internet and becoming a part-time imam.

What kind of tradition actually that you suggest as Muslim is different in interpreting Islam as well. In the past, Muslim preacher are either entrepreneurs (prophet Muhammad/ Abu Bakr) or scientist. We need more part time Imam/ teacher for better Islam.