Muslims, Christians sons of Ram, those who don't believe it should leave India: BJP minister

[SQ8]

No, there is no concept of heaven and hell. We have a form of purgatory which is temporary. Cause and effect is built into the fabric of the cosmos and is essentially to maintain its balance. Hell and heaven are on earth and not elsewhere.

You misunderstand heaven and hell in the form of distinct locations, whereas I refer to the ideas as being a condition of bliss and a condition of pain.

 

[SpArK]

So essentially, this supreme being has a system in place whereby his creations/life is rewarded or punished. If we leave the re-incarnation or form bits out. Karma, is essentially a system of rewards and punishments where essentially a being( in this a human) may go to a higher place (heaven) or end up in a lowly form and miserable(hell).

Yes. Thats how the system works.

 

[SQ8]

Nothing is compulsory and nobody needs anybody to tell what they should do to be a good Hindu or a good citizen .

Seems a little contradictory to what you said earlier. If there is a system of karma, then clearly there is a criteria to evaluate actions within that Karmic system.

 

[Saheli]

No need to get defensive. Now it seems you are the one putting English as a prerequisite. He has used a teleprompter whenever he has spoken in English, not that there is anything wrong with that.

I did not assume that being a Hindu saint equates to being an imbecile. However being a Hindu saint does not necessarily qualify you to be a minister. Religion and governance are two different things and should be kept separate.

Actually, in Australia they did notice and comment that he never as much as once looked down on the teleprompter. I just countered your argument that he is not much of a speaker in English.

Most of these Hindu saints that Modi has selected is not based on their saintliness quotient but because they were people with some accomplishments under their belt. The enormous exercise that organizations like RSS and VHP are is not just because some religious nutjobs get together and rabble rouse, it requires quite a bit of skill to run these, and that is the experience that people like Fadnavis, Parikar, this lady in question, etc. bring with them.

You misunderstand heaven and hell in the form of distinct locations, whereas I refer to the ideas as being a condition of bliss and a condition of pain.

Being in permanent bliss is only possible when you are freed of karma, reincarnation, and gain moksha. That is when you dissolve back into the entity called Brahaman. There is no constant condition of pain either. Ones karma could lead us to be born in a say a war zone, like current day Iraq and that could be considered as living our bad karma.

 

[gau8av]

Hindus know and realize that the supreme being is inside them, infact they are the supreme being. But the moment someone claims they are, I see Hindus like you going all red in your face.

 

[SpArK]

Seems a little contradictory to what you said earlier. If there is a system of karma, then clearly there is a criteria to evaluate actions within that Karmic system.

Karma entails understanding that we are all ultimately responsible for our own lives.

Believing in karma does not automatically create indifference to the suffering of ourselves or others , but underpins sentiments of "helping others to help themselves.

Yes, there is a set of criteria or a system to evaluate actions. Its almost same like other religion like charity, penance and pilgrimage , not neglecting or abusing sections of society like women, children, animals , saintly people, and the elderly, etc.

Some criterias are still classified , to avoid misuse.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Seems a little contradictory to what you said earlier. If there is a system of karma, then clearly there is a criteria to evaluate actions within that Karmic system.

Yes. but no'body' does that evaluation. There is a cosmic balance that takes care of it. When you introduce antimatter to matter, there is an annihilation reaction. Period. Nobody decides that. Cause and effect.

 

[SQ8]

Yes. but no'body' does that evaluation. There is a cosmic balance that takes care of it. When you introduce antimatter to matter, there is an annihilation reaction. Period. Nobody decides that. Cause and effect.

How did that cosmic balance get to that balance?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

How did that cosmic balance get to that balance?

We can only observe that. Not yet knowledgeable enough to answer the question. If you can answer that you can answer what happened 'before the Big Bang'. Though time loses its existence there.

 

[Saheli]

Thats the whole point. These sadhus and self proclaimed protectors of Hinduism needs clamp down pushing their views on others throat.

Nothing is compulsory and nobody needs anybody to tell what they should do to be a good Hindu or a good citizen .

No, that is not the whole point. None of these sadhus have come to your house and asked you to conform to their viewpoint. They are addressing a gallery of their own followers and in democracy they have the right to do that. Also the point being discussed is not mode of worship but protection of a way of life which has been lived for thousands of years. Something modern deracinated Hindus want to destroy. So they have a legitimate right to protect their turf and way of life. It is you guys who need to back off.

 

[jaunty]

Actually, in Australia they did notice and comment that he never as much as once looked down on the teleprompter. I just countered your argument that he is not much of a speaker in English.

You probably don't know how a teleprompter works. For starters, you don't have to look "down" on it. If people could tell so easily that you were reading from a teleprompter, that would defeat the whole purpose of using it over a piece of paper. When he has an already written speech, he would read it as it is especially if it's in a language he is not most comfortable with. Your point that he was using a teleprompter but did not read from it is absurd. Again please don't get defensive over it, many world leaders including Obama use teleprompters all the time.

Most of these Hindu saints that Modi has selected is not based on their saintliness quotient but because they were people with some accomplishments under their belt. The enormous exercise that organizations like RSS and VHP are is not just because some religious nutjobs get together and rabble rouse, it requires quite a bit of skill to run these, and that is the experience that people like Fadnavis, Parikar, this lady in question, etc. bring with them.

Please don't compare Parrikar who is an IITB graduate or Fadnavis who is a Law graduate with this lady in question.

 

[SQ8]

Karma entails understanding that we are all ultimately responsible for our own lives.

Believing in karma does not automatically create indifference to the suffering of ourselves or others , but underpins sentiments of "helping others to help themselves.

Yes, there is a set of criteria or a system to evaluate actions. Its almost same like other religion like charity, penance and pilgrimage , not neglecting or abusing sections of society like women, children, animals , saintly people, and the elderly, etc.

Some criterias are still classified , to avoid misuse.

Being in permanent bliss is only possible when you are freed of karma, reincarnation, and gain moksha. That is when you dissolve back into the entity called Brahaman. There is no constant condition of pain either. Ones karma could lead us to be born in a say a war zone, like current day Iraq and that could be considered as living our bad karma.

From this, the crux seems for anyone looking to get Hinduism as a fundamental law..say like Newtons law.
.. that there is a supreme being who is present in all of us and is the reason for the cosmos and all life. This supreme being has made a cosmic balance known as Karma..which like any system takes an input and gives a resultant output based on various criteria in the evaluation of the input.

And I dont talk of a state of permanent bliss(Nirvana) i.e reaching this supreme level of self.. but the idea of bliss and pain as a cause and effect for actions.

 

[SpArK]

No, that is not the whole point. None of these sadhus have come to your house and asked you to conform to their viewpoint. They are addressing a gallery of their own followers and in democracy they have the right to do that. Also the point being discussed is not mode of worship but protection of a way of life which has been lived for thousands of years. Something modern deracinated Hindus want to destroy. So they have a legitimate right to protect their turf and way of life. It is you guys who need to back off.

Yes. the point is noted. The sadhus didnt visited my home but said that in a public gathering. Fair enough as its tough for the sadhvi that too a minister to come down to kerala and to my home.

What would be your reaction ...if say in last government a Christian minister in his speech in some christian gathering says" All hindus muslims are sons of jesus".. will you apply same logic like its democracy and has every right to do that.???

 

[SQ8]

We can only observe that. Not yet knowledgeable enough to answer the question. If you can answer that you can answer what happened 'before the Big Bang'. Though time loses its existence there.

Well, if one takes a Hindu theology idea and postulates that a supreme being exists within all of us..then this supreme being is also very aware of the cosmic balance and is the origin or creator of it.. no?

 

[SarthakGanguly]

Well, if one takes a Hindu theology idea and postulates that a supreme being exists within all of us..then this supreme being is also very aware of the cosmic balance and is the origin or creator of it.. no?

There is no difference between the Supreme being in us and the one who is the origin and the creator. Imagine the Supreme as an atom. It is very powerful and at the same time almost fundamental. It is in us and then also everywhere.

Yajurveda defines it as 'The Undefined', One, Supreme - shapeless, formless, nameless.