Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

[Pakistani E]

Same can be said? So extremists can say that my liberal disease is also not a product of me being Muslim or a follower of Islam. Again that would be true. What I am is not just shaped by my religion, there are a hundred thousand other factors to consider before you consider how I or anyone else came to be moderate, liberal or fanatic.

This is the million dollar question. If Islam is the cause of extremism, then why am I not doing the same exact thing as the barbarians in ISIS, even though I consider myself a conservative Muslim ( I'm not saying I'm perfect ). The extremism is more political in nature, look at the rhetoric of Baghdadis and bin ladens, they always talk about how the muslim world is occupied or getting destroyed by foreign intervention, when have they ever talked about the importance of Salah? or of charity? these are the fundamentals of Islam, you'd have thought the fundamentalists would have been talking about the fundamentals of the religion and not politics?

 

[Dubious]

Oh, I don't doubt I could have missed something, could you please point to where you responded to the specifics of the OP's arguments? Thanks.

First present me a SCHOLAR or one who has a degree in the subject rather than a self elected man who speaks your words ....Coz I dont waste my time on such things...they are all over the modern day media

The source from a blog isnt worth my time either....thats where all your sources are from...
And this attitude of yours is pretty evident in every of your posts:

If you repeat a lie often enough, people will believe it, and you will even come to believe it yourself.

If ever you are honest enough to bring in some REAL stuff....A scholar or a learned man in the field then maybe just maybe you will be above a troll...till then the law is dont feed the troll

I've debated this thousands of times before, and I've pointed out what I feel is wrong with the Muslim world.
But your view is absolute rubbish.

You heard me. It's rubbish. For all the snooty, posts like this one, you and your articles literally have nothing to show for it in terms of addressing these problems.



Solomon2 is a deluded on all things Islam and Muslim. He makes his mind up on a subject and then pushes so blindly.

I swear, @Solomon2 if it wasn't for you being so well-spoken and so formal, we'd have called your posts out for being a the work of a fool's mind a long, long time ago.

Anyone who calls the likes of Robert Spencer 'a Scholar' has little credibility on the matter in the context in which it was said.



p.s. it really isn't worth my time ranting pages long arguments to you, because I know your views are stubborn and blissfully ignorant, hence they won't ever change, and the author well, the poor fella won't even be able to respond to my ranting.

But I think it is rather unfair that some people (only coz English happens to be their first language) be allowed to troll.....it is rather unfair because then it is just trailing people (even if they have excellent ideas and rebuttal) with a poor command of the English language

 

[Dubious]

Because there are some weak, war-torn, devastated regions on Earth and their inhabitants happen to be Muslim. When for decades all you have seen is war and destruction, you tend to become a violent, mentally disturbed person. Some people lose it, suicide or just give up. Others turn to their faith, the one thing that they can believe in after seeing absolutely no hope. But they're mentally disturbed people who are filled with rage and want to fight and kill, to take revenge for all their suffering. All they need is a way to justify and do it. Then comes the 'leader', taking full advantage of this situation, presenting a path, a justification in the form of their faith, a corrupted version of it. The people get what they think they need - a purpose, a path. The leaders get what they want - an army of fanatics that blindly follows them.
In the above paragraphs I was referring to the middle east, Iraq especially was devastated by multiple politically motivated wars. If it was Atheists, Jews, Christians or Buddhists who went through all that, the result of that would have been the same. Islam itself is a great religion, logical and perfect. It is not Islam that needs reform. It is Muslims.
Muslims need reform - not Islam.

THIS def hit the nail on the head!

 

[jeypore]

You must be Indian because you only pick on Islam needlessly and ignore the facts, let me enlighten you, if you attacked and kill 1000 innocent people and destroy their families and kill their parents, than young will do desperate things, that will have no connection to Islam ,you should not blame Islam for desperation of those people who's families have been killed and homes been demolished. They have become desperate and that has nothing to do with Islam.

You are so right in your assessment, any human being will feel the same, but the problem Islam has created is, when they do retaliate it is only done in religious perception, instead of human needs or freedom......

 

[TankMan]

it is only done in religious perception, instead of human needs or freedom

A reason behind that is that for these people, Religion is more powerful, more influential. They don't believe in 'human needs' that much, mainly because they are not really educated about the concepts of Human Rights or Freedom, about the fact that they are supposed to have rights. I mean, even if they were, all they'd see is the 'global protector of human rights' murdering their children.

 

[jeypore]

mainly because they are not really educated about the concepts of Human Rights or Freedom, about the fact that they are supposed to have rights..

You will be surprised to know that applies to all of South Asian subcontinent, no matter of there religion.

It does take one man to change the ripple in the pond though!!!!

 

[TankMan]

You will be surprised to know that applies to all of South Asian subcontinent, no matter of there religion.

It does take one man to change the ripple in the pond though!!!!

I agree with you that it needs to change, Muslims especially really need educational and social reforms but it wouldn't hurt to apply them to the whole of South Asia.

 

[TSA321]

He's right tbh.

 

[Jaanbaz]

Never heard of him nor any info relating to "where" he got his philosophy degree or is he a Mullah...You know self declared?

That's the problem with Mainstream Muslims. You guys have no single leadership, that's why on the one hand you have random village idiot calling himself Mullah and spreading hate yet he is not even qualified in Islamic theology. Same goes for the so called Liberal Muslim thinkers, they will do anything to earn brownie points from the Non Muslims. A bit of guilt sprinkled with confession to a crime you haven't committed. Both parties leads to being used by enemies of Islam to labelling the whole religion as a violent religion.

In all this confusion people like Osama Bin Laden, Taliban and Bagdhdai type people are representing Islam. Then on the other spectrum you have Ayan Hirsi, Salman Rushdie and Fareed Zakaria type people trying to earn a bit of cash by pandering to the large and ever growing Islamophobia market.

 

[Dubious]

A bit of guilt sprinkled with confession to a crime you haven't committed.

I beg your pardon?

Mainstream Muslims

It mind you is a problem with every Muslim Mullah lately...feeding poison to their people and making them fight to become individual groups just check on PDF how some people will pick up a Shia death and paste it all over the website while the title might also say 30 OTHER people died (not claiming them to be Sunni or whatever) but they never hit the headlines! NEVER....

And then you have Indians pulling in Ahmedi every now and then...

Mind you not until MUSLIMS unite this shit is gonna fly everywhere!

 

[Jaanbaz]

I beg your pardon?



It mind you is a problem with every Muslim Mullah lately...feeding poison to their people and making them fight to become individual groups just check on PDF how some people will pick up a Shia death and paste it all over the website while the title might also say 30 OTHER people died (not claiming them to be Sunni or whatever) but they never hit the headlines! NEVER....

And then you have Indians pulling in Ahmedi every now and then...

Mind you not until MUSLIMS unite this shit is gonna fly everywhere!

Get together and elect a single leader. That will solve most of the problems. You see if a leader makes a mistake but if people follow him and remind him of his mistake those mistakes can be corrected but if you have no leader and are wandering around clueless, you will continue to get violent extremist groups coming out and using Islam's name to commit crimes. You will also get extremists at the other hand who will malign Islam just for a bit of money.

And I couldn't give a damn about Hindutva trolls crying for Ahmadis. Because I know their intention is not any sympathy with Ahmadis but rather hate against Muslims and Pakistan.

 

[Dubious]

Get together and elect a single leader. That will solve most of the problems. You see if a leader makes a mistake but if people follow him and remind him of his mistake those mistakes can be corrected but if you have no leader and are wandering around clueless, you will continue to get violent extremist groups coming out and using Islam's name to commit crimes. You will also get extremists at the other hand who will malign Islam just for a bit of money.

Well for too long people expect the Arabs to lead....without realizing Arabs are happy with their wealth ONLY....and would do alot of further damage to increase it....

The problem comes when they start "electing" leaders based on birth right..."Arabs"

Such "leaders" exploit and refuse to listen so correcting any mistake is far fetched!

And I couldn't give a damn about Hindutva trolls crying for Ahmadis. Because I know their intention is not any sympathy with Ahmadis but rather hate against Muslims and Pakistan.

true...

 

[Pakistan First]

@vayyu1

And perhaps you would be better off on an Indian defence forum. Oh wait..... Your inferiority complex drove you here.

Muslim Philosopher? My a$$.

You want to reform religion? Get rid of all Modis, Fazlus from our midst.

 

[Black Mamba1]

there are so many negative issues, problems coming up related to Islam are coming up across Islamic world. So many terrorists are resorting on Islam. So many killings are happening across the world in the name of religion. And unfortunately innocent Muslims are the major victims. Every day a new terrorist group is created in the name of Islam and each group believes that whatever Islam the believe in is the purest form of it and rest have no right to live. Don't you think everything is not right, at least something is wrong somewhere?.

There may be three probable explanations-
a. Everything is actually conspiracy and western propaganda. Muslims are being victimised
Action Point : Nothing
b. These terrorist groups does not know what is true Islam. They are tampering true Islam
Action Point : ?
c. Current form of Islam being practiced is not right
Action Point : ?

If you stick to point a then it is easiest for you. You do not have to do anything. But at the same time the problem will not be solved rather will go on increasing.

If you think point b or c is right then lot of work needs to be done at your end. How right form of Islam to be adopted across globe ( at least in your nation) should be planned by you only. To me solution for both b & c problems is reform and reform only.

Reform does not mean discarding Koran and its teaching. rather it means a contemporary interpretation of Koran. This has to be done by educated , advanced people like you and not by the dumb uneducated Moulavis or Mullas.

 

[Rahil khan]

[

there are so many negative issues, problems coming up related to Islam are coming up across Islamic world. So many terrorists are resorting on Islam. So many killings are happening across the world in the name of religion. And unfortunately innocent Muslims are the major victims. Every day a new terrorist group is created in the name of Islam and each group believes that whatever Islam the believe in is the purest form of it and rest have no right to live. Don't you think everything is not right, at least something is wrong somewhere?.

There may be three probable explanations-
a. Everything is actually conspiracy and western propaganda. Muslims are being victimised
Action Point : Nothing
b. These terrorist groups does not know what is true Islam. They are tampering true Islam
Action Point : ?
c. Current form of Islam being practiced is not right
Action Point : ?

If you stick to point a then it is easiest for you. You do not have to do anything. But at the same time the problem will not be solved rather will go on increasing.

If you think point b or c is right then lot of work needs to be done at your end. How right form of Islam to be adopted across globe ( at least in your nation) should be planned by you only. To me solution for both b & c problems is reform and reform only.

Reform does not mean discarding Koran and its teaching. rather it means a contemporary interpretation of Koran. This has to be done by educated , advanced people like you and not by the dumb uneducated Moulavis or Mullas.

Wrong interpretations, wrong understanding, poverty, illiteracy, utter lack of those democratic values which were practiced during the early Caliphate with the inflexible integrity, and rigid justice establishing wise regulations for the strict administration of the law throughout the region. Some massive reforms are requited at every level. Muslim world desperately need some good leaders. Mullas have done severe damage to our cultural norms. Its simply because we have handed over our basic responsibilities in there hands. In Islam every one can become Imam to lead prayers (Salaah). The conditions to become Imam are simple such as to have good characteristics, good knowledge of Salaat, pious and senior in age, noble and good in voice....it's a pity that we have handed over simple jobs like leading prayers to some appointed Mullahs and Maulvees who are taking full advantage of their position which most of them don't deserve at all. Not to mention the proper interpretation of Holy Quran here. Recently a christian couple was burnt alive in Punjab and some local Maulvi was behind all that shameful act....!!
Only & only education with removal of poverty along with extremely rigid system of Justice can save us from the future disasters.