Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

[VCheng]

Muslims are to blame for sure.
No question. We're also the most guilty party for sure. That we can all agree on, but Solomon2's thoughts I completely disagree with.

If we agree that we are the most guilty party in all of this, then can we also agree that the onus of rectifying the mess, and ourselves, lies mostly upon us too, regardless of others might say, Sir?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Why don’t you talk to us in a normal manner rather than talking down to us or posting articles from obscure blogs/dodgy websites? You aren't helping your cause in fact you're doing the exact opposite, with posts like these. The truth is your just as extreme in view as Islamic extremist.

It's okay. He has a superior mind. You and me belonging to the PDF Pleb class can't hope to understand.

If we agree that we are the most guilty party in all of this, then can we also agree that the onus of rectifying the mess, and ourselves, lies mostly upon us too, regardless of others might say, Sir?

Absolutely. I have nothing more to add in this regard, I agree 100%. In fact, if you think about it, if the above is NOT the case, then we're all screwed, right?

 

[VCheng]

Absolutely. I have nothing more to add in this regard, I agree 100%. In fact, if you think about it, if the above is NOT the case, then we're all screwed, right?

"We're all screwed". You said it, not me!

 

[Armstrong]

@Solomon2

Also, I'd like to add, there are many, many members here on the forum who have a good mastery of Islam, though perhaps they aren't too clued up on it's place in politics and society. But there's a good reason why those members haven't given you spanking yet. Your mastery of the English knowledge is clear and you've used it to great effect, often confusing desi posters, I won't say that it's your intention, I often state things too eloquently myself when I know the person on the other end isn't too comfortable with conversing in English. But don't you worry, your wordy replies of little substance do not at all worry me.

Bring them on. You can write as eloquently as you please. But it won't stop me for calling them out.

Maybe its got less to do with eloquence and more to do with the tone and tenor of the message !

I'd say again what I said but you'd delete it and probably hand me a warning along with it !

Even though it perfectly fits what everyone is thinking !

Muslims are to blame for sure.
No question. We're also the most guilty party for sure. That we can all agree on, but Solomon2's thoughts I completely disagree with.

We're by far the most guilty party !

Its a little like that 'house divided' aphorism; we've got so many internal contradictions and such a mess inside that others benefit from it and anyone who thinks that others don't benefit from it or that they shouldn't benefit from it is either an imbecile or a pathological liar.

 

[Khalid Newazi]

"Muslim philosopher" let me guess where e got his philosophy degree from. America or is it one on those American puppets in the Middle East?

 

[Jungibaaz]

Maybe its got less to do with eloquence and more to do with the tone and tenor of the message !

I'd say again what I said but you'd delete it and probably hand me a warning along with it !

Even though it perfectly fits what everyone is thinking !

No chance matey, I don't think you've broken any rules before, that was the first time I saw, I can't warn you in fact. And yes, you did indeed say what we were all thinking, even I typed a line in my post, which then I later deleted before posting.

 

[Armstrong]

No chance matey, I don't think you've broken any rules before, that was the first time I saw, I can't warn you in fact. And yes, you did indeed say what we were all thinking, even I posted a line in my post, which then I later deleted before posting.

So you think I haven't broken any rules before - Damn I'm good !

 

[terry5]

Never heard of him not any info relating to "where" he got his philosophy degree or is he a Mullah...You know self declared?

Must have found him cleaning toilets in mcdonalds .
western media desperate much

 

[Jungibaaz]

So you think I haven't broken any rules before - Damn I'm good !

 

[haviZsultan]

Well I guess reforming Islam is just not possible as Muslims refer to it as absolute word of god.

Reforming Islam is in every way possible. We were the ones who created the concept of secularism and first suggested it (Ibn Rushd). In 1258 Baghdad was sacked by the Mongols. This event took Muslims far backward from a time when we were writing great works like arabian nights. Another event that played a role in ending Ijtehad was the bringing up of individuals with a conservative, non-critical tint.

Any attempt to reform it will be met with heavy resistance as you will see in the posts in this very own thread.

It might be met by some stiff resistance by some. But I would like you to remember that the loudest voices aren't the majority. They are in fact numerically a far smaller minority. Our silence is sometimes condemnable though but we have protested and argued against attempts by terrorists to destroy the peace.

In my opinion the problem stems from the fact that there are few countries in the world that has integrated Islamic law which is clearly outdated and doesn't fit into the 21st century in any way into the state. As long as a state uses outdated policies, it is bound to fail. This is common sense.

You haven't studied Islam so I will tell you there was a provision in Islam especially for this. We were prepared that there would come a time when unwarranted orthodontic ideals prevailed and could be removed as times had changed. People knew that there would be changes in the modern day and the religion needed to adopt and hence one of the greatest Muslim philosophers Iqbal believed in and suggested Ijtehad.

What is Ijtehad 101? It is a concept where all religious scholars, muslim or not sit together and look at Islam from a modern perspective. It is a discussion which used to begin with the scholars saying "I may be wrong...." and then the scholars mentioned their opinion. In that time no one considered it legal to consider or brand anyone a Kaffir or infidel. This was for God to decide. Research Ijtehad, muta'zilite thought and come back.

Same thing could be said about communism or any other ideology that is no longer appropriate for the modern world.

Communism has some good things, one for example is universal education. Uzbekistan has communist influence and has a literacy rate of about 99%. Anyway that is not a part of this discussion.

Any state that is based on either race or religion destined to discriminate those who do not represent what the state does. I think it should be the theocratic states that should change first and it will eventually change the mindset of those individuals who we refer to as extremists but unfortunately we don't see any sign of change from them.

I partly agree with you that these nations need change, whether Iran or Pakistan. But both Muslims and anti colonists have more than one reason to feel threatened. USA shouldn't have these 700+ military bases in the world. India shouldn't be occupying Kashmir and Israel Palestine. Would you like it if Sri Lanka was conquered by another state and then denied independence?

Still I believe all of this is secondary. Helping the Muslims of Palestine or Kashmir can only come after we have set our house in order, treat minorities fairly and have a secular system. We need reforms. This much is more than clear.

 

[Jungibaaz]

Must have found him cleaning toilets in mcdonalds .
western media desperate much

Media's the same everywhere. Lies, damned lies, and headlines. The best way to go about it is to get as much news from different sources, preferably with conflicting narratives, and then your own reading. Media's not to be trusted. Tin foil hats must be deployed at all times.

 

[terry5]

"Muslim philosopher" let me guess where e got his philosophy degree from. America or is it one on those American puppets in the Middle East?

philosopher my backside .
these white people i tell you .......

Media's the same everywhere. Lies, damned lies, and headlines. The best way to go about it is to get as much news from different sources, preferably with conflicting narratives, and then your own reading. Media's not to be trusted. Tin foil hats must be deployed at all times.

You know some days when i've got a bit of time free i google newspapers of the day from major points in history .
tells me everything about how these 'western free press work'

 

[TankMan]

I'm getting tired of shredding these kinds of absolutely incorrect (to say the least) arguments, long, logical and factual posts do not even put a dent in the level of delusions certain people suffer from.
However, I would like to answer this one pressing question - the crux of it all (in my opinion), and my counter argument.

Why has this monster stolen your face? Why has this despicable monster chosen your face and not another?

Because there are some weak, war-torn, devastated regions on Earth and their inhabitants happen to be Muslim. When for decades all you have seen is war and destruction, you tend to become a violent, mentally disturbed person. Some people lose it, suicide or just give up. Others turn to their faith, the one thing that they can believe in after seeing absolutely no hope. But they're mentally disturbed people who are filled with rage and want to fight and kill, to take revenge for all their suffering. All they need is a way to justify and do it. Then comes the 'leader', taking full advantage of this situation, presenting a path, a justification in the form of their faith, a corrupted version of it. The people get what they think they need - a purpose, a path. The leaders get what they want - an army of fanatics that blindly follows them.

In the above paragraphs I was referring to the middle east, Iraq especially was devastated by multiple politically motivated wars. If it was Atheists, Jews, Christians or Buddhists who went through all that, the result of that would have been the same. Islam itself is a great religion, logical and perfect. It is not Islam that needs reform. It is Muslims.

Muslims need reform - not Islam.

 

[Falcon29]

I'm getting tired of shredding these kinds of absolutely incorrect (to say the least) arguments, long, logical and factual posts do not even put a dent in the level of delusions certain people suffer from.
However, I would like to answer this one pressing question - the crux of it all (in my opinion), and my counter argument.

Because there are some weak, war-torn, devastated regions on Earth and their inhabitants happen to be Muslim. When for decades all you have seen is war and destruction, you tend to become a violent, mentally disturbed person. Some people lose it, suicide or just give up. Others turn to their faith, the one thing that they can believe in after seeing absolutely no hope. But they're mentally disturbed people who are filled with rage and want to fight and kill, to take revenge for all their suffering. All they need is a way to justify and do it. Then comes the 'leader', taking full advantage of this situation, presenting a path, a justification in the form of their faith, a corrupted version of it. The people get what they think they need - a purpose, a path. The leaders get what they want - an army of fanatics that blindly follows them.

In the above paragraphs I was referring to the middle east, Iraq especially was devastated by multiple politically motivated wars. If it was Atheists, Jews, Christians or Buddhists who went through all that, the result of that would have been the same. Islam itself is a great religion, logical and perfect. It is not Islam that needs reform. It is Muslims.

Muslims need reform - not Islam.

Don't fall for his trap. He wants people like you to go on the defensive and give up your basic rights. Especially political rights, so this way he can summon his Muslim Bashing sentiment and apply it to the Palestinians in order for Arab/Muslim nations to abandon the Palestinian cause and stay neutral towards Israel's illegal ethnic cleansing and destruction of the Palestinian people. This is the only reason people like him create these threads and why people like him plague Western society with their hatred/evil ways to achieve socio-political dominance which only benefits Jews and empowers them even further.

Some Westerns can give these Jews more power, but no way in hell will it be us Muslims. This criminal is a criminal because his community takes advantage of Psychological factors in order to ruin mental state of Muslims through mass anti-Muslim manipulation in order that they exercise severe leverage over political developments in the Middle East. And even when some Muslims/Arabs submit to their criteria they will continue on in order to keep you in your spot but also keep up pyschological warfare all at expense of some greedy evil Jews.

This guy is a Zionist and he is working for a Zionist cause which is epitome of evil. And all of us here need to spit in his dirty face and his dirty criminal community which is the dirtiest community the world ever witnessed in history. You can't explain in words how dirty and power hungry these people are. They are behind all cultural degradation around the world in order to associate sticking up for your basic political rights with extremism/savagery/backwardsness. The whole world is denied those rights except the Jews, they can take every wrong politically incorrect method to further their interests without receiving any backlash from the mainstream media.

@Alienoz_TR

 

[rockstar08]

All these responses appear to be symptoms of what the author is talking about: not listening, not responding to to the issues of arguments, not taking personal responsibility, and so on.

Perhaps PDF is the wrong forum to address these matters but it is an excellent showcase of them.

if you take out 2 words from my whole post .. than probably hard for you to understand though ... better luck next time if you read the whole post