Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

[Spring Onion]

That was one emotional letter cum sermon which we all have in mind but there are no solid suggestion from you my dear Muslim Philosopher.

rest all these catchy Arabic named organizations are NOT result of Islam but your dear modern world who created and used them rather using these for own political agenda.

So NOTHING wrong with Islam or its political side what we need is one strong platform and disunity is our fault which is costing us

 

[Solomon2]

That was one emotional letter cum sermon which we all have in mind but there are no solid suggestion from you my dear Muslim Philosopher -

You must begin by reforming the entire education you give to your children, in all of your schools, all of your places of knowledge and power. You must reform them according to [the following] universal principles – even if you are not the only one violating or disregarding them: freedom of conscience, democracy, tolerance, civil rights for [those of] all worldviews and beliefs, gender equality, women's emancipation from all male guardianship, and a culture of reflection and criticism of the religion in universities, literature, and the media. You cannot go back, and you can do no less than this.

Source: Muslim Philosopher Says Islam Has Given Birth To Monsters, Needs Reform

How much more "solid" could the author be?

...NOTHING wrong with Islam or its political side what we need is one strong platform and disunity is our fault which is costing us -

...you are taking refuge in your self-defense reflex, without realizing it, and, above all, without taking responsibility to self-criticize. You become indignant and are satisfied with that – but you are missing an historical opportunity to question yourself -

 

[ozzy22]

ahahahahah moderates? then you have some serious denial issues. As your last paragraph says, majority are silence only because they don't mind what's being happening. As I said already, remove any doubts, hopes you have that they will magically start getting better. It's not going to happen. It's us who both have to face the consequences and take actions.

Is it really that? Or more to do with most people not caring about politics. Most people including Muslims are busy just getting on with their day to day life. Rather than it being some grand conspiracy from us working in the shadows trying to take over.

 

[EasyNow]

Do you think so?

i really think so. No one used to mention sects before these mullahs introduced their new agenda.

Yet it is S.Asians who will come out quicker than a sneeze with their clubs and what not to bash someone!

Agreed mob mentality is in our culture - and we complain about it always. But to kill someone because he believes something different from us was not our way. Also, i'm talking about the cutting off heads, playing football style of ultra-violence is not from our culture, it is a cue from religion taken too far. Culture, listening to the community would've tempered this.

Oh yes it does....The ego level has soared through the roof...No matter how intelligent you may be (or qualified- say MA) your (figuratively speaking) father who didn't even make it to Uni will always be right...And you have no authority to ask and he has no shame/ humbleness to accept the difference!

That's exactly what i believe about respecting parents too. But you have not seen these young mullahs, they think their parents asking for restraint is a lack of faith. How many of the middle class idiots who join ISIS and TTP listen to their parents? They listen explicitly to the Quran and Sunnah, without applying some reality and culture. An example, my close friends marriage ended because his wife demanded her Islamic right to have a separate house with her husband. She was in her full rights to do so, she could've considered that he only had 1 younger bro and sister at home but she didn't. Our culture frowns on this but she threw culture to the wind and demanded her rights only. Do you understand what i mean about culture being helpful to interpret Islam and apply it in changing times?

So you mean to tell me Bangoli in UK wont be eating fish and walking in their lungi? Honestly speaking that is a lie and even you know it!

So I dont see your adaptation....And as for religion...It only needs to adapt if there is something wrong with it and it wont fit!

Lol, why do you wanna keep a Bengali from his fish? If it is not a problem it carries on. But if a Bengali wants to shoot birds from his rooftop like back home, it is a problem - so it doesn't happen. Same with religion, no one objects to Namaz or any other general aspect of religion. Now if you want to exercise your right to have 3 wives in the UK - it's not gonna work, so you must adapt your application of religion.

Why coz there in 28 pages all people have been able to do is take out their anger and bash Islam without quoting the Quran or anything that is wrong with it!

When you cant find a problem why do you suggest there is one that needs fixing?

Well I'm not saying Islam should change - i am saying the interpretation of religion needs to change and that is exactly what culture did. Over hundreds of years people found a way to apply Islam which worked in our local environments. Now you want to throw away all that and go back to pure Islam - that's a step backwards.

 

[Azizam]

Is it really that? Or more to do with most people not caring about politics. Most people including Muslims are busy just getting on with their day to day life. Rather than it being some grand conspiracy from us working in the shadows trying to take over.

They do care about politics when it comes to bashing Israel but as you said at other times really they don't seem to care about politics much.

 

[ozzy22]

They do care about politics when it comes to bashing Israel but as you said at other times really they don't seem to care about politics much.

Just saying the reason for the inaction and silence has a more simpler explanation and less sinister then what you are trying to portray. The issue with Israel/Palestine gets everyone riled up and something that is well known to everyone and can't be compared to some Muslim Sri Lankans isolating them self to the rest of the community.

 

[Dubious]

i really think so. No one used to mention sects before these mullahs introduced their new agenda.

Where are the Mullah from?

But to kill someone because he believes something different from us was not our way.

When was there any form of tolerance for anything new at all?

How many of the middle class idiots who join ISIS and TTP listen to their parents? They listen explicitly to the Quran and Sunnah, without applying some reality and culture.

So where in Quran did it say to join the pimps known as ISIS? Please do point out in all my years as a practising Muslim I never saw that verse...Please dont blame ignorance of mere stupidity on Islam!

An example, my close friends marriage ended because his wife demanded her Islamic right to have a separate house with her husband. She was in her full rights to do so, she could've considered that he only had 1 younger bro and sister at home but she didn't.

Wow! 1 incident and blame the whole law? 1stly, its her right...2ndly, if she is inconsiderate that is a behaviour and has nothing to do with Islam...So blaming every sneeze on Islam is really a sign of desperation! Nowhere in Islam does it say be inconsiderate! In fact along with "rights" (unlike the West) Islam does say after each right given...that IF you are merciful ALLAH will be merciful on you...IF you are merciful ALLAH loves those who are Merciful...IF you are patient ALLAH rewards the patience...

Our culture frowns on this but she threw culture to the wind and demanded her rights only.

Our "CULTURE" frowns ON HER (individual) inconsiderate behaviour! Do you really believe our culture frowns for good or to oppress the woman? Please be honest to yourself! Why does our culture frown on women wanting their own house (if the guy can afford it)? Coz then the "daughter in law" wont be the free maid, wont be the free anger management tool to hiss and spit at...the gossip monger and many more other ill that of course our culture keeps as its right arm!

Do you understand what i mean about culture being helpful to inerpret Islam and apply it in changing times?

No you have falsely blamed Islam....without pointing out the ills our culture brings for the same thing....I have mentioned it above

no one objects to Namaz or any other general aspect of religion. Now if you want to exercise your right to have 3 wives in the UK - it's not gonna work, so you must adapt your application of religion.

You sure no one objects to that? Right now they are getting a rash with women with hijab...who knows what next will happen chicken pox ....


Having 3 wives is not a INTEGRAL PART OF ISLAM...You are allowed with conditions...same verse puts the conditions and same verse rejects the man's level of reaching that conditions...

... then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice. Quran 4:3

Well I'm not saying Islam should change - i am saying the interpretation of religion needs to change and that is exactly what culture did.

You mean by binding to religion its cultural ill?

eg. Female infanticide which was a NORM before Islam ...Islam forbids it but cultural habit keeps it up!
No rights for women....they were said without soul (Christian) were a property (Judaism) were not even worth to live after the death of their Husband (Hinduism) and many other "religion/ culture" Honor Killing (Before Islam this was norm- Where anyone who had seen their gal or done wrong to their girl could result in the death of the girl- village mentality still practiced till date in almost every part of the envious chauvinist world!)

Over hundreds of years people found a way to apply Islam which worked in our local environments.

When has it work over these 100 years of Cultural mixture?

Kingdoms got changed to Sultanate (Thank you culture)
Has female infanticide stopped? Honor Killing? Which part of this mixture WORKED?

 

[EasyNow]

Where are the Mullah from?



When was there any form of tolerance for anything new at all?


So where in Quran did it say to join the pimps known as ISIS? Please do point out in all my years as a practising Muslim I never saw that verse...Please dont blame ignorance of mere stupidity on Islam!



Wow! 1 incident and blame the whole law? 1stly, its her right...2ndly, if she is inconsiderate that is a behaviour and has nothing to do with Islam...So blaming every sneeze on Islam is really a sign of desperation! Nowhere in Islam does it say be inconsiderate! In fact along with "rights" (unlike the West) Islam does say after each right given...that IF you are merciful ALLAH will be merciful on you...IF you are merciful ALLAH loves those who are Merciful...IF you are patient ALLAH rewards the patience...


Our "CULTURE" frowns ON HER (individual) inconsiderate behaviour! Do you really believe our culture frowns for good or to oppress the woman? Please be honest to yourself! Why does our culture frown on women wanting their own house (if the guy can afford it)? Coz then the "daughter in law" wont be the free maid, wont be the free anger management tool to hiss and spit at...the gossip monger and many more other ill that of course our culture keeps as its right arm!

No you have falsely blamed Islam....without pointing out the ills our culture brings for the same thing....I have mentioned it above



You sure no one objects to that? Right now they are getting a rash with women with hijab...who knows what next will happen chicken pox ....


Having 3 wives is not a INTEGRAL PART OF ISLAM...You are allowed with conditions...same verse puts the conditions and same verse rejects the man's level of reaching that conditions...

... then marry (other) women of your choice, two or three, or four but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one or (the captives and the slaves) that your right hands possess. That is nearer to prevent you from doing injustice. Quran 4:3



You mean by binding to religion its cultural ill?

eg. Female infanticide which was a NORM before Islam ...Islam forbids it but cultural habit keeps it up!
No rights for women....they were said without soul (Christian) were a property (Judaism) were not even worth to live after the death of their Husband (Hinduism) and many other "religion/ culture" Honor Killing (Before Islam this was norm- Where anyone who had seen their gal or done wrong to their girl could result in the death of the girl- village mentality still practiced till date in almost every part of the envious chauvinist world!)



When has it work over these 100 years of Cultural mixture?

Kingdoms got changed to Sultanate (Thank you culture)
Has female infanticide stopped? Honor Killing? Which part of this mixture WORKED?

You are going round in circles. You have been bashing culture previously, but i keep saying, the beauty of culture is that it's changeable. They changed kingdom to Sultanate? Change it back, there is no divine reason not to. But you want to change the age of marriage - no way, there is a divine right given to people that you can't change. Do you get my point? It is culture which is telling us today that a 12 year old should not be married.

Culture is not the big evil, you should cherish your culture as it helps to interpret the laws over the years. Don't change Islam, change your outlook to it.

If on the other hand, you are saying remove culture and just have only religion. Do you think there is such a thing?


Regarding why people join ISIS, you think there aren't hadith and Quranic ayaths that support war and to fight oppression? But if these people listened to their elders rather than some youtube mufti, they'd receive the wiser explanation for these sections. My rule and the rule in my culture listen to your parents before anyone else. The mullah approach is listen to Quran before anyone else (which is just a way to say listen to me).

 

[Dubious]

They changed kingdom to Sultanate? Change it back,

No they changed Khalifat to Sultanate....Because Sultanate or KINGDOM was more culturally acceptable you know living like a prince!

. But you want to change the age of marriage - no way, there is a divine right given to people that you can't change.

Show me that divine right! Please do pick out the verse from the Quran that states this!

Age is never mentioned...

Culture is not the big evil, you should cherish your culture as it helps to interpret the laws over the years. Don't change Islam, change your outlook to it.

This I can agree...

If on the other hand, you are saying remove culture and just have only religion. Do you think there is such a thing?

I only showed you how culture had been adapted over Islam....I never said throw out culture...but see the line...and stop crossing it and end up blaming Islam for culture...

I stated how Honor killing, female infanticide and others were there BEFORE ISLAM and still are and hence Islam cant be blamed for these things which we refuse to get rid off even if they are "evil"

 

[EasyNow]

Show me that divine right! Please do pick out the verse from the Quran that states this!

Age is never mentioned...

I don't want to get into a religious debate but it is a guiding principal to do as our Prophet. Its also well known that kids got married young in those days, which was fine for that time. But today, it is culture that has made this unacceptable. So please give respect to culture where it's due.

I stated how Honor killing, female infanticide and others were there BEFORE ISLAM and still are and hence Islam cant be blamed for these things which we refuse to get rid off even if they are "evil"

Honor killing is a cultural thing yes - but like i said don't blame culture, change it. Definitely Islam came and changed the world. But are you saying we all need to live like it's 630AD now?

Just like 630AD culture adapted over time, it needs to keep adapting in the future to reflect today's sensibilities. We don't want to see men with 3 wives, we don't want slavery back (these were permissable at the time).

 

[Dubious]

But today, it is culture that has made this unacceptable. So please give respect to culture where it's due.

It is not culture...it is just normal thing...People are too busy chasing dreams and wanting things than to think of being responsible for another

But are you saying we all need to live like it's 630AD now?

I never said that......

I ONLY stated the bad in the culture...and said THAT needs to be told as part of CULTURE and THAT DOES need to change

 

[EasyNow]

It is not culture...it is just normal thing...People are too busy chasing dreams and wanting things than to think of being responsible for another




I never said that......

I ONLY stated the bad in the culture...and said THAT needs to be told as part of CULTURE and THAT DOES need to change

I think we are saying the same thing but our outlooks on it are very different!

 

[C130]

watching this gives me some hope.

and not one Allah Akbar to be heard

 

[fallstuff]

Again.. Head in the sand much ? Mate some of you have been adamant about blaming the source and everybody else than actually addressing the issues presented..

Talking about sources did you even bother to check what Joomla! (Islamic monitor) is about or just googled Ameer Ali ?

The point is establishing an authority in an argument, my post is just as pointless as the one you posted. You need to know from the horses mouth before making a post, if you don't know about them, then hold Your peace. Muslim community has been brutally victimized by LTTE in your country. Apparently that was not good enough for you, such a pity.

 

[fallstuff]

Hindus who do that are equally bad. All religions belong in the house they are practice but none of the other religions claim to be peaceful like Islam. This thread is about Islam. Btw please read up on female infanticide in Bangladesh

BANGLADESH The price of poverty: woman who sold daughter for US$ 125, now wants her back - Asia News

Strange name you got always neutral.

So how many times you apologize a day for your brethren who kills female infants, or millions that get aborted as they were female ?