Muslim Military Tradition....What happened?

[Agnostic_Indian]

emm...it means there is no such claim on Gandhi's account....

actually never heard before that he was labelled secular by some segment of the society. Was it ever debated in India ?

other than some minor issues like ban on cow slaughter etc he was secular man.what is it you are pointing ?

 

[Leader]

other than some minor issues like ban on cow slaughter etc he was secular man.what is it you are pointing ?

did he claim to be Secular?

 

[ares]

did he claim to be Secular?

Obviously he was secular, he created a secular country din't he...as always actions speak louder then claims.

 

[Leader]

Obviously he was secular, he created a secular country din't he...as always actions speak louder then claims.

gandhi almost died before he could do anything with modern day country called india. the foundation is laid by Nehru or mountbatten probably, no ?

 

[Leader]

Obviously he was secular, he created a secular country din't he...as always actions speak louder then claims.

so never verbally claimed to be either ever?

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

did he claim to be Secular?

why beating around the bush ? you never answered why do you think he is not secular?
in my opinion he was a secular man and a noble sole..he might not be perfect since he is a human..but he showed his secularism where it matters and he become the father of secular india.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

so never verbally claimed to be either ever?

i don't know if he claimed or not but his actions were broad minded.

 

[ares]

gandhi almost died before he could do anything with modern day country called india. the foundation is laid by Nehru or mountbatten probably, no ?

so never verbally claimed to be either ever?

Mr Gandhi died in 1948 ..the desicion that India will be a secular country was taken 1930 itself..when Indian national congress declared Purna Swaraj(complete Independence) from British rule and foundation of secular Republic of India was laid at 26 jan and 1930 itself.

What does verbally claim of being secular mean?
Secularism is not an adjective its verb, which means complete separation of religion and matters of state.

So how can a person be secular?

 

[Desert Fox]

The reason why Muslims lost their advantage in warfare and technology over the west is because Muslim rulers (and the elite of the Muslim empires) began to focus much less towards science and education and more towards building palaces, huge magnificent gardens, fountains, and other luxurious architecture. And not only that, but they also began to spend more time watching captured non-Muslim women belly dance or satisfy their lusts and less time on planning on and funding educational institutes, they would build huge Harems full of hundreds of women while neglecting the military and scientific fields.

The reason why the Europeans were able to advance in field of military technology and strategy is due to the fact that European kingdoms had been in state of war with each other for almost more than 1,000 years, and within this time frame they spent a lot of $ on R&D, exploration, expeditions, etc, while on the other hand Muslims became lazy and preoccupied with worldly gains.

 

[desioptimist]

The reason why Muslims lost their advantage in warfare and technology over the west is because Muslim rulers (and the elite of the Muslim empires) began to focus much less towards science and education and more towards building palaces, huge magnificent gardens, fountains, and other luxurious architecture. And not only that, but they also began to spend more time watching captured non-Muslim women belly dance or satisfy their lusts and less time on planning on and funding educational institutes, they would build huge Harems full of hundreds of women while neglecting the military and scientific fields.

The reason why the Europeans were able to advance in field of military technology and strategy is due to the fact that European kingdoms had been in state of war with each other for almost more than 1,000 years, and within this time frame they spent a lot of $ on R&D, exploration, expeditions, etc, while on the other hand Muslims became lazy and preoccupied with worldly gains.

Muslim power is quoted because christians fought a religious war against them. Otherwise there were stronger world powers compared to middle east kingdoms.
The one that immediately comes to mind are mongols, whose power can be compared to todays USA. Now what happened to mongols?
If any mongol comes to this forum and says, we are not world power because we dont worship our sky god properly, we are not real believers, but one day we will unite and take over the world, I would say, nobody knows what future holds for us.

 

[AUz]

i think you should say muslim forces were among the strongest in the world not the strongest and the cruasaders had many victorys against muslim forces.

but i prefer to look at militarys by country and not religion save for the crusades

otherwise christians would be going oh yes we have many strong powers !

Well,They remain both.."Strongest" and "one of the strongest"..Its not the point....Like during the height of Ottomon Empire they had "the strongest" military but to the later end of their empire rule ,they became "one of the strongest" and then downhill from there. . .

Let the Indians ruin this thread !

BlackBlood Sir, your insights on the topic would be highly appreciated..

---
O.k some good posts on the part of "What happened" but now coming to the other part of my post...
Is there any hope of come back? What is practical way forward...

I think the biggest disadvantage of Muslim World is that they missed the Industrial revolution...In my personal view,Industrialization of the Muslim World is absolute necessity.

 

[Vassnti]

The reason why Muslims lost their advantage in warfare and technology over the west is because Muslim rulers (and the elite of the Muslim empires) began to focus much less towards science and education and more towards building palaces, huge magnificent gardens, fountains, and other luxurious architecture. And not only that, but they also began to spend more time watching captured non-Muslim women belly dance or satisfy their lusts and less time on planning on and funding educational institutes, they would build huge Harems full of hundreds of women while neglecting the military and scientific fields.

The reason why the Europeans were able to advance in field of military technology and strategy is due to the fact that European kingdoms had been in state of war with each other for almost more than 1,000 years, and within this time frame they spent a lot of $ on R&D, exploration, expeditions, etc, while on the other hand Muslims became lazy and preoccupied with worldly gains.

The thing your missing is why Europe's leaders wernt spending all their countries wealth on houries and palaces.
The English civil war, the French revolution and the Reformation, 500years ago Europe started the change from tyranical Monarchies to rule by the people. They broke the power of corrupt priests by establishing that christianity is the worship of God not the worship of the church.

Islam started the journey started that journey with Turkey and Pakistan now it has been reborn in Egypt and perhaps Lybia.

 

[Leader]

i don't know if he claimed or not but his actions were broad minded.

I read his quote that "I and my friends are practising religion into politics." so thats why I thought maybe in later age he declared himself a secular leader...

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I read his quote that "I and my friends are practising religion into politics." so thats why I thought maybe in later age he declared himself a secular leader...

we will have to consider at what context he said so..but in actions he was never against secular ideas.

 

[Agnostic_Indian]

I read his quote that "I and my friends are practising religion into politics." so thats why I thought maybe in later age he declared himself a secular leader...

yes in strict sense some of his quotes can be termed as non secular but you have to remember that his idea of god and religion was very broad mined and he did not see christianity and islam as separate..i guess his thought was that only a moral person can work in politics and that morals come from religion.his idea of god is very broad minded he some times identifies god as truth, as humanity etc..it is because his broad mindedness we never experienced his actions as non secular..even though he did not believed in separation of religion and politics.