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Hypothetical - Ancient Rome vs Han China

Before Camillus came to power, the soldiers of the Roman Empire even needed to prepare their own weapons and armor.

Well there was no "Roman Empire" back in the days of Camillus (446 – 365 BC)...it was still just a simple Roman Republic back then. So I'm not shocked the people with the horses in those times were just the local rich aristocrats instead of the later large organized army. That's like comparing the pre-US military of the 1600's colonial days of just people with money supplying their own stuff to the organized army of the US Government in the 1900's.
 
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Well there was no "Roman Empire" back in the days of Camillus (446 – 365 BC)...it was still just a simple Roman Republic back then. So I'm not shocked the people with the horses in those times were just the local rich aristocrats instead of the later large organized army. That's like comparing the military sizes of the 1600's US to the 1900's.
OK. So let's talk about Roman cavalry during the Roman Empire (27 B.C. to 476 A.D.).

During this period, the legion cavalry of the Roman Empire had completely disappeared. The number of equals singulares Augusti is only 2000.


It was not until the Roman Empire was attacked by the Huns in the fourth and fifth centuries that they began to build real cavalry. But the quantity is still small and the quality is poor.

 
Hun is Mongol not China. China likes to steal others glory. Pakistan needs to stand on it's own strength not on China's stolen strength.
Chinese fought and defeated the ancestors of the Huns, they never claimed they were Huns.
 

Chinese Shandan Imperial Military Horse Farm Dating Back To Han Dynasty After Snow 山丹马场 素裹银装​




Horses gallop in Shandan Horse Farm in Gansu province​



GLOBALink | A visit to 2,000-year-old horse ranch in NW China​

 
India is a god created joke if there is a god. A group of people who have no military achievements or inventions, live in absolutely filthy poverty and malnourished as hell, been dominated by everyone and anyone who shows up and is the laughing stock of the world when olympic games comes on every time. They really have no honor, no history and no pride and live in filth so they can only lie and slander. Its really quite sad that there is such a species of people like that in the world.
Such a blanket statement of ignorance? That land has seen it's fair share of bloodshed. There were several ethinicity which forms current India. There are several historical records of wars all through the land. Where the oldest script recording those wars is dated to atleast 4000 BC. We had the Cholas, Cheras, Pandyas and Rashtrakutas in the South. We had the Gupta Dynasty, Maurya Dynasty in the North. Oldest civilization being in Pakistan and Afganistan and Indian Punjab, Kashmir, Gujarat and Rajastan called the Harappa and Mohenjadaro, who were contemporary of the Mesopotamian civilization.
Even Chinese Traveller and scholar Hiuen Tsang reported on different training schools in India to his ruling dynasty in China. And our affluent lifestyle.
Ashoka conquered a big part of Northern India and went into Tibet and when he took to Buddhism his preachers and soldiers brought several Chinese rulers under his cultural Influence.
When the Mongolian Conqueror was moving forward grabbing all of China and Eastern Europe, he could never cross the Karakoram Pass to get into India.
The Greek messenger Megathanus reported our Affluence to Alexander before he invaded Indus valley. After the return of Alexander, from Persia till Orissa and further south in current Deccan India was under the governor Selucas Nicator. That was when Indian strategist Chanakya united a native army who were still the followers of the 4 vedas (Sacred texts of contemporary Hindus)fought the Greek governor and absolutely eradicated them.
All of barbaric white Europe were obsessed with spices grown in India, they all came in as traders finding different land route and Sea route to India.
Then started the Islamic conquest from the Persian Emperors and Mongols descents in Afganistan. Even then they did not conquer all of current India. We had the Sikh Kings consistently standing up against them and also Maratha kings able to withstand their dominance.
Once the Europeans understood the internal tensions in India they systematically aligned with different Kings and had them go against each other. If we had not worked with the European barbarians our end would have been just like the Australian Aboriginies and American Natives. Practically nothing... We were able to safeguard our history and religion only because of how our elders hid all the historic records, which were being cunningly destroyed by the Muslims and Christians.
All of European Paganism, MIddle Eastern Paganism, American Indian Heritage were destroyed by you invaders. The last standing pagan religion is the contemporary Hinduism.
If not for our choice to work with you barbarians we would have been lost extinct from world as well. The main reason to work with you is to safeguard whatever is left of our religious library.
 
Roman civilization influence on world is more significant.

So you can choose rome over han empire.
 
India is a god created joke if there is a god. A group of people who have no military achievements or inventions, live in absolutely filthy poverty and malnourished as hell, been dominated by everyone and anyone who shows up and is the laughing stock of the world when olympic games comes on every time. They really have no honor, no history and no pride and live in filth so they can only lie and slander. Its really quite sad that there is such a species of people like that in the world.
Actually what is quite sad is that even in this age of omnipresent Internet Google libraries and the educational videos , utterly ridiculous ignorant cell collections such as you exist to spout of. Obviously it is one part hate from whatever Indian that damaged you and rest sheer ignorance. Learn dude, learn:

In the past you could claim your background and upbringing for such stupidity but now that if you just apply yourself even a tiny bit, you can learn all you want.

Learn something about India, it will make you a better person, however low a bar you under now.
 
Rome only had less than 10% of the population of Han. It's not even close. On top of that, Han had way better cavalry compared to Rome.

@White and Green with M/S @mike2000 is back
Europecentrist historians from Europe estimate that Roman Empire had a population of around 60mln people and now Americans say that population of the Roman Empire could have been as high as 100mln people and of course all these estimates don't make any sense.

We can make an estimation of the population of the Roman Empire by comparing population of the 17th century Ottoman Empire with the Byzantine Empire (because they had the same territory) and than with the Western part.

First of all in 1600 the Ottoman Empire had a population of around 20mln people

Second, territory of the Ottoman Empire was bigger than territory of the Byzantine Empire
OttomanEmpire1600.png


Unlike the Byzantine Empire, Ottomans controlled Mesopotamia (4mln people), Hejaz (1mln), Algeria (2mln). So if Ottoman Empire had a population of 20mln people in 1600, than Byzantines could have 20mln - 4mln- 1mln- 2mln = 13mln people, if we take into account the fact that population of that region was relatively stable in the pre-Industrial era

And now, it is well known that Byzantine Empire was richer and more populous than the lightly populated and poor Western part.

According to Russells (1958) Byzantine Empire could have 10-15% higher population than the Western Roman Empire. So if Byzantine Empire had a population of around 13mln people, than Western part probably had a population of around 12mln people and combined population of the Roman Empire was around 12mln+13mln= 25mln people at its height

For comparison, we can make a similar estimation of the population of the Parthian/Sassanid Empires by looking at the population of the Safavid Empire (10mln in 1680), which was roughly comparable in territory to the old Parthian/Sassanid Empires, with the exception that Safavids, unlike Sassanids, didn't own Mesopotamia (4mln people), Transoxiana (2mln people) and parts of modern Pakistan (2mln people)....Parthian/Sassanid Empires probably had a population of 10mln+4mln+2mln+2mln= 18mln people
8043fa1ec89f7b1f1f47036d4cdc9eff.jpg


So Rome could have 25mln people compared to Sassanid Empire having 18mln people.

Han Empire was probably more populous than both those empires combined even despite Europecentrist claim that Rome was comparable to Han Empire.
 
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In a direct conflict I would say the Romans would have won.

Here is the reasoning for why I think this is the case and as you may know this is only my opinion and I am open to other opinions.

The Chinese fighting prowess can be measured against their cousins the far east Turkics who are world class and peak military element.

The chinese armies like Han and Tang have managed to beat the nomadics twice and the reason for that is because the turkic nomadics lacked one thing China never lacked which is civilization and governance. The Nomadics were divided people and had rough culture with infighting tribalism embedded meaning they were always fighting amongst each other and settled in tribal divisions hence it was easy for the civilized Chinese to defeat them in their weaker divided eras.

But however whenever they united they overran China effortlessly and not only china but half of the known world. The turkic steppe and Mongols are traditionally best soldiers on earth and the Mamlukis slave soldiers were purchased by every single sultan in the middle ages as his personal guard because they were famous and praised combatants.

Genghis overran China and his grandson ethablished Yuan dynasty And another nomads have overrun China the Qing dynasty aka the Manchu.

China managed to defeat the Turkics steppe nomads twice and the Turkic/Mongol/Manchu overrun China twice.

China managed to even chase some turkics during the Tang dynasty to Europe.

The Chinese could have only defeated the Steppe people during periods of civil strife and great division and the steppe people were less organized nomads who rarely came together but when ever they did they defeated China.

But these steppes didn't only defeat China because they defeated the Iranians, Arabs, Romans, North Europeans such as Germans, Russians and everyone else under the sun. Hence China being defeated by the steppe folks twice is nothing negative.

If I have to rate ancient chinese Empires in military prowess I would say Han Dynasty and Tang Dynasty were both at the same level and equal to the Sassinds and Byzantine but not the original Roman empire because that empire was stronger in comparison to Han or Tang including Byzantine or the Sassinds..



There is 5 class of empires

1: Small empire: Kingdom of Denmark, Joseon Dynasty of Korea, Moldova, Dracula's kingdom, Hittites,

2: Average to small empire: Hungarian empire, Serbian empire, Malacca Sultanate, Sparta and Athens, Samanids, Prussia kingdom, Germanic empire.

3. Middling empire: Song Dynasty, Safavids, Austrian-hungarian empire, Spanish empire, Seljuqs, Khwarazmian Empire, Ghaznavids, Ming Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, Golden Horde, Ghurids, Ilkhanate, Yuan Dynasty, Achaemenid Empire, Neo-Babylonian Empire. Kievan Rus'

4. Big sized Empire: Tang Dynasty, The Sassinds, Byzantine, Moghul Empire, Ayyubid dynasty, Han Dynasty, Delhi Sultanate, Assyrian dynasty, Timor the Lane's Timurid, Macedonian empire (Alexander the Great) Al-Andalus, Isabella and Fernandez of Spain, Al-Mamluki sultanate of Egypt, Portuguese empire, Napoleonic dynasty and Russian empire.

5. Gigantic sized Empire: Ancient Egypt, The Caliphate (Ummayyid and Abbasid) Roman Empire, Ottoman empire, Mongol empire, British empire, Currently USA..

There has been 7 transnational empires on large scale until currently if you include the United states of America because imo they are a dynastic era element
 
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In a direct conflict I would say the Romans would have won.

Here is the reasoning for why I think this is the case and as you may know this is only my opinion and I am open to other opinions.

The Chinese fighting prowess can be measured against their cousins the far east Turkics who are world class and peak military element.

The chinese armies like Han and Tang have managed to beat the nomadics twice and the reason for that is because the turkic nomadics lacked one thing China never lacked which is civilization and governance. The Nomadics were divided people and had rough culture with infighting tribalism embedded meaning they were always fighting amongst each other and settled in tribal divisions hence it was easy for the civilized Chinese to defeat them in their weaker divided eras.

But however whenever they united they overran China effortlessly and not only china but half of the known world. The turkic steppe and Mongols are traditionally best soldiers on earth and the Mamlukis slave soldiers were purchased by every single sultan in the middle ages as his personal guard because they were famous and praised combatants.

Genghis overran China and his grandson ethablished Yuan dynasty And another nomads have overrun China the Qing dynasty aka the Manchu.

China managed to defeat the Turkics steppe nomads twice and the Turkic/Mongol/Manchu overrun China twice.

China managed to even chase some turkics during the Tang dynasty to Europe.

The Chinese could have only defeated the Steppe people during periods of civil strife and great division and the steppe people were less organized nomads who rarely came together but when ever they did they defeated China.

But these steppes didn't only defeat China because they defeated the Iranians, Arabs, Romans, North Europeans such as Germans, Russians and everyone else under the sun. Hence China being defeated by the steppe folks twice is nothing negative.

If I have to rate ancient chinese Empires in military prowess I would say Han Dynasty and Tang Dynasty were both at the same level and equal to the Sassinds and Byzantine but not the original Roman empire because that empire was stronger in comparison to Han or Tang including Byzantine or the Sassinds..



There is 5 class of empires

1: Small empire: Kingdom of Denmark, Joseon Dynasty of Korea, Moldova, Dracula's kingdom, Hittites,

2: Average to small empire: Hungarian empire, Serbian empire, Malacca Sultanate, Sparta and Athens, Samanids, Prussia kingdom, Germanic empire.

3. Middling empire: Song Dynasty, Safavids, Austrian-hungarian empire, Spanish empire, Seljuqs, Khwarazmian Empire, Ghaznavids, Ming Dynasty, Qing Dynasty, Golden Horde, Ghurids, Ilkhanate, Yuan Dynasty, Achaemenid Empire, Neo-Babylonian Empire. Kievan Rus'

4. Big sized Empire: Tang Dynasty, The Sassinds, Byzantine, Moghul Empire, Ayyubid dynasty, Han Dynasty, Delhi Sultanate, Assyrian dynasty, Timor the Lane's Timurid, Macedonian empire (Alexander the Great) Al-Andalus, Isabella and Fernandez of Spain, Al-Mamluki sultanate of Egypt, Portuguese empire, Napoleonic dynasty and Russian empire.

5. Gigantic sized Empire: Ancient Egypt, The Caliphate (Ummayyid and Abbasid) Roman Empire, Ottoman empire, Mongol empire, British empire, Currently USA..

There has been 7 transnational empires on large scale until currently if you include the United states of America because imo they are a dynastic era element
Bro, its totally viceversa, China was divided in three aged courrpt dynasties during mongol's rise and a long recession and devasted by a huge rebellion at the same time of manchu invasion.
 
Bro, its totally viceversa, China was divided in three aged courrpt dynasties during mongol's rise and a long recession and devasted by a huge rebellion at the same time of manchu invasion.

I do agree that China was divided as well at the time of the Mongols into 3 kingdoms but I also highlighted that Tang Dynasty soundly beat the gokturks nomads and expelled them to Asia minor. The Han dynasty also managed to defeat the Huns previously expelling them to Europe but they were also at their weakest version the nomads hence in this case it is technically on both side periods mirror each other meaning the Han's were at their weakest point and in division and the same with the nomads.

Tang and han dynasty were both major empires in my honest opinion and on the same level strength wise as the Sassinds and Byzantine.

Expelling the gokturks or the Huns is not an easy task militarily
 

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