Muslim groups call for boycott of Hilton hotels over China mosque demolition

[MH.Yang]

So here is an event from Islamic history that I have read about. The Muslim Caliph Haroon ur Rasheed said to his wife "Get out of my kingdom by nightfall otherwise I divorce you three times". The matter was brought in front of a Muslim scholar who told the wife to spend the night inside a mosque, because mosques do not fall under the purview of the Caliph's kingdom. The Caliph's rule does not extend over mosques.

If your urban planners set out to preserve mosques, they will definitely find a way. To every problem there is a solution. In today's era of AI, you can give the problem to a deep learning algorithm with the constraints that the position and size of the mosques must not change. See what plan it comes up with. There are so many ways to solve the problem!

You mean that even Uygur Muslims can't dismantle mosques and replace old mosques with new mosques.
So can we tear down the old mosque then build a new mosque at the original site?

 

[CriticalThought]

You mean that even Uygur Muslims can't dismantle mosques and replace old mosques with new mosques.
So can we tear down the old mosque then build a new mosque at the original site?

Yes, it is OK to tear down an old mosque and build a new one on the original site. This is again my limited knowledge. You should always contact a valid Mufti on these matters. I saw the Chinese government can tweet in Urdu. Most certainly you guys should be able to contact the Muftis here:

صفحہ اول | جامعہ علوم اسلامیہ علامہ محمد یوسف بنوری ٹاؤن

www.banuri.edu.pk

and ask their opinion on the matter. They have a phone number and they accept questions written in Urdu which usually you can submit in person at the Jamia which is situated in Karachi. Write in detail all your questions, all the constraints, everything that is on your mind and ask them for the solution to your problem. They will help, Insha Allah. And you will be amazed if you seek their opinion on matters related to Uighyurs, they will be able to guide you in such a way that you will never run into any friction at all. Try it, and see.

 

[jamahir]

Your knowledge on Islam is lacking in that case. I will make this easy for you. You have Darul Uloom Deoband right in your own country. How about you obtain a fatwa from them? Neither you are a scholar of Islam, nor am I. We should not be arguing on this based on limited knowledge. How about you contact the highest calibre of scholars that are present in your own country? You can quote this entire thread if you like.

Let us not consult those jaahil Deobandi "scholars". Once they passed a "fatwa" forbidding Indian Muslim women from traveling alone beyond 100 kms. Some months ago they passed some "learned" fatwas about working women, co-education and burqa'ing. They are no one to speak about Islam.

 

[CriticalThought]

Let us not consult those jaahil Deobandis. Once they passed a "fatwa" forbidding Indian Muslim women from traveling alone beyond 100 kms. Some months ago they passed some learned "fatwas" about working women, co-education and burqa'ing. They are no one to speak about Islam.

Well, you are yourself an ignorant, uncouth stain on humanity. It is a displeasure having to tolerate you on the forum.

 

[MH.Yang]

Yes, it is OK to tear down an old mosque and build a new one on the original site. This is again my limited knowledge. You should always contact a valid Mufti on these matters. I saw the Chinese government can tweet in Urdu. Most certainly you guys should be able to contact the Muftis here:

صفحہ اول | جامعہ علوم اسلامیہ علامہ محمد یوسف بنوری ٹاؤن

www.banuri.edu.pk

and ask their opinion on the matter. They have a phone number and they accept questions written in Urdu which usually you can submit in person at the Jamia which is situated in Karachi. Write in detail all your questions, all the constraints, everything that is on your mind and ask them for the solution to your problem. They will help, Insha Allah. And you will be amazed if you seek their opinion on matters related to Uighyurs, they will be able to guide you in such a way that you will never run into any friction at all. Try it, and see.

Frankly, the Chinese govt likes to demolish churches&temples&mosques in commercial areas. Then build a new one in the residential area where believers are concentrated.
This can relieve the traffic pressure in the business district and facilitate believers to carry out religious activities.
Because the original address is in the business district, it is normal to build the Hilton Hotel.

 

[jamahir]

Well, you are yourself an ignorant, uncouth stain on humanity. It is a displeasure having to tolerate you on the forum.

So you support those Deobandi "scholars" on those matters regarding women ? @Naofumi, can you please link here those fatwas of theirs you had twice posted ?

Mr. CriticalThought, where is your critical thought ?

So not they but I am ignorant and uncouth ?

 

[CriticalThought]

So you support those Deobandi "scholars" on those matters regarding women ? @Naofumi, can you please link here those fatwas of theirs you had twice posted ?

Mr. CriticalThought, where is your critical thought ?

So not they but I am ignorant and uncouth ?

Exactly. Who says your view on 'matters regarding women' is the right view?

Frankly, the Chinese govt likes to demolish churches&temples&mosques in commercial areas. Then build a new one in the residential area where believers are concentrated.
This can relieve the traffic pressure in the business district and facilitate believers to carry out religious activities.

If we look at it historically, I think we can agree that when these mosques were built, there would be no traffic issues. If you allowed unplanned urban development to happen, only then traffic issues would happen. The problems seems to be unplanned development, not the mosques. So it is the unplanned development that should be re-arranged.

 

[jamahir]

Exactly. Who says your view on 'matters regarding women' is the right view?

I am sure the great Muslim leaders and movements of the past and present would agree with my views on women. For example below is how Jamal Abdul Nasser tried to reason with the chief of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood who wanted Nasser to pass a law for Egyptian women to compulsorily wear the burqa :

Nasser said: “He told me that you as a ruler is responsible [for veiling women]. I told him, you have a daughter in the Faculty of Medicine who is unveiled. Why didn’t you force her to wear a veil? If you are not able to make your daughter wear a veil, [how] would you want me to [force] 10 million women to wear veils in the country?”

“Then, [he told me] that women must not [go to] work. I think that when a woman works, we are protecting her [this way]. Why do [some women] go astray? They do so because of the need and poverty. We all know such stories of women whose sons or mothers are sick and they did not find money, so they were forced to sell their bodies. Therefore, work is a protection for women, while preventing women from work [works] against her. We actually liberate women by [allowing] them to work and cooperate with the man,” Nasser added.

And what was the Muslim Brotherhood ?

Concerning the MB, “they are neither Muslims, nor brothers. They are malevolent … Their leaders outside [the country] cooperated with Baghdad Pact, colonial countries, all our enemies, and Arab reactionary, and proved with clear evidence that the MB party or movement is only a movement that works for the benefit of colonialism and reactionary, by which it is funded.

“In 1954, we were negotiating with the British [forces occupying Egypt at the time] for the evacuation [deal]. At the same time, the Muslim Brotherhood members were holding secret meetings with the members of the British Embassy. They were telling them: we will be able to seize power,” Nasser said.

Now I must tell you that years ago when I was learning in a computer institute one of my batch mates was named Jamal Abdul Nasser, named by his parents after the great Egyptian leader who had inspired Muslims around the world in past decades. Sadly, so many Muslim currently have been brainwashed by the TJ and have become regressive and also like the MB, become pawns in the game plays of Western governments who seek to sabotage any progressive Muslim movement. This is what the ten-year-old Syria war is about. Do you think the Deobandi "scholars" you mention would support the Bashar al Assad government or the Western-governments-created transnational criminals ( the "Syrian" "moderate rebels" ) ?

 

[CriticalThought]

I am sure the great Muslim leaders of the past and present would agree with my views on women. For example below is how Jamal Abdul Nasser tried to reason with the chief of the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood who wanted Nasser to pass a law for Egyptian women to compulsorily wear the burqa :

And what was the Muslim Brotherhood ?




Now I must tell you that years ago when I was learning in a computer institute one of my batch mates was named Jamal Abdul Nasser, named by his parents after the great Egyptian leader who had inspired Muslims around the world in past decades. Sadly, so many Muslim currently have been brainwashed by the TJ and have become regressive and also like the MB, become pawns in the game plays of Western governments who seek to sabotage any progressive Muslim movement. This is what the ten-year-old Syria war is about. Do you think the Deobandi "scholars" you mention would support the Bashar al Assad government or the Western-governments-created transnational criminals ( the "Syrian" "moderate rebels" ) ?

Really, it is not about Jamal Abdul Nasser, Muslim Brotherhood, or Deobandis and Tableeghis. This is about the fact that the Creator of the entire Universe, and of realities that we cannot even perceive, Allah the Almighty sent Hazrat Muhammad Sallallahu 'Aliahi Wa 'Aalihi Wasallam as the last prophet and messenger and Made Islam the only religion till the Day of Judgement. The Deobandi scholars are spiritually connected with the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. That is, present day scholars learnt from their teachers, who learnt from their teachers, and the chain extends back all the way to the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam himself. You can go to Deoband and ask for this chain yourself. People like Jamal Abdul Nasser have prestige in the eyes of misguided Muslims who are given into the pleasures of this world and are thus deviated from the right path. These figures have no authority at all in the eyes of pious Muslims.

 

[Maira La]

A mosque, by definition, is a piece of land that has been dedicated to the worship of Allah the Almighty till the Day of Judgement. Once dedicated, it cannot be moved. This is why, it is recommended not to build mosques in non-Muslim lands because there is no guarantee what will happen to them in the future. But if a non-Muslim government has taken control of areas where mosques are already built, they are expected to respect their sanctity. This is my understanding, but it is always best to contact a valid Mufti on such topics.

A mosque site is not sacred! There are only 3 sacred places in Islam, Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. At the time of the Prophet (pbuh) Muslims could gather anywhere to pray and treat the place like a mosque. There was no purpose-built mosque. There is nothing special about the site on which Mosque is built. It is just a building, nothing else.

 

[jamahir]

That is, present day scholars learnt from their teachers, who learnt from their teachers, and the chain extends back all the way to the Prophet Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam himself. You can go to Deoband and ask for this chain yourself.

What can I say to you if you believe in that unscientific and irrational idea ?

People like Jamal Abdul Nasser have prestige in the eyes of misguided Muslims who are given into the pleasures of this world and are thus deviated from the right path. These figures have no authority at all in the eyes of pious Muslims.

So why is it that these "properly guided" and "pious" Muslims you look up made themselves agents of the Western Crusader governments right after the end of World War 2 up until now ( I mentioned the Syria war ) ?

And good that you mentioned "pious" Muslims because I will ask you to read the below thread of mine from 2016 whose OP is a lengthy article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha who chronicles a lot of the Socialist and Communist activism among Muslims from the early 1900s. Please note my allusion to "pious" :

the comfortable muslims of yesteryears and the pious muslims of now

Islamic Socialism: A history from left to right Nadeem F. Paracha — Published Feb 21, 2013 07:40am Between the 1950s and early 1970s, a powerful ideology in the Muslim world galvanised itself from the minds and fringes of modern Islamic intellectualism and made its way into the mainstream...

defence.pk

 

[CriticalThought]

A mosque site is not sacred! There are only 3 sacred places in Islam, Mecca, Medina and Jerusalem. At the time of the Prophet (pbuh) Muslims could gather anywhere to pray and treat the place like a mosque. There was no purpose-built mosque. There is nothing special about the site on which Mosque is built. It is just a building, nothing else.

Please provide valid references through Quran and Hadith.

What can I say to you if you believe in that unscientific and irrational idea ?

What is your scientific and rational proof about the date of birth of Isaac Newton? The reality is, you actually don't understand science and rationality at all.

So why is it that these "properly guided" and "pious" Muslims you look up made themselves agents of the Western Crusader governments right after the end of World War 2 up until now ( I mentioned the Syria war ) ?

The Deobandi proper has done no such thing. I am not here to defend anyone else.

And good that you mentioned "pious" Muslims because I will ask you to read the below thread of mine from 2016 whose OP is a lengthy article by Pakistani journalist Nadeem Paracha who chronicles a lot of the Socialist and Communist activism among Muslims from the early 1900s. Please note my allusion to "pious" :

the comfortable muslims of yesteryears and the pious muslims of now

Islamic Socialism: A history from left to right Nadeem F. Paracha — Published Feb 21, 2013 07:40am Between the 1950s and early 1970s, a powerful ideology in the Muslim world galvanised itself from the minds and fringes of modern Islamic intellectualism and made its way into the mainstream...

defence.pk

Nadeed Paracha is not a Muslim scholar. I am not going to waste my time discussing the hate he spews upon Muslims.

 

[jamahir]

I am not going to waste my time discussing the hate he spews upon Muslims.

But an example ?

 

[CriticalThought]

But an example ?

Have you actually read his writing on Islam and Muslims and so called 'Mullahs'?

 

[jamahir]

Have you actually read his writing on Islam and Muslims and so called 'Mullahs'?

I have occasionally read his satires on Pakistani affairs on Dawn website and the newspaper cuttings my father kept. The newspaper columns used to be printed in the Indian newspaper Asian Age many years ago.