Muslim girls wearing Hijab barred from classes at Indian college

[cocomo]

it cannot act without legislative support, and that is what is wanting.

So it is subservient to whims of those who rule the legislative. So it is not free then. Simple logics.

Indian courts cannot act without legislative support
legislative is ruled by terrorists
Hence. Indian courts cannot act without terrorist support.

 

[xeuss]

I don't agree that these are kangaroo courts, and am sorry that you are getting carried away. The situation is difficult, and we had three monkeys, SeeNoEvil, SpeakNoEvil and HearNoEvil, as successive Chief Justices, but we now have one and a court that is standing up to whatever can be resisted.

It is clear to everyone that under the present oppressive regime, where individual judges are under threat, neither the adjudication of Art. 370 nor the examination of the legality of the UAPA law will be taken up. Nobody - not the judges, not any of those of us who hope for a return to normalcy - thinks that anything will be gained by a confrontation today that cannot be won.

You may have your reasons to feel bitter about the courts, the lower courts in general, in perspective, I believe that there has been an improvement, and I believe that the general sentiment in the Supreme Court is favourable to democracy. it cannot act without legislative support, and that is what is wanting.

Joe - you are basically agreeing with me and saying the same stuff that I am saying except in a more diplomatic language.

 

[Wood]

I hope you are right.

One common factor is the incompetence of the right-wing in terms of administrative competence. They have failed right across the board.

I think that there may be a change by mid 2030s.

Yesterday, Yogi used his Brahmastra. If people do not vote for BJP, then Yogiji has warned that UP will become like Kerala. Normally, people would say that UP should become like Kerala given that it is at the top of all social indicators in India (as per the BJP gov. report). Yet, he is so confident that this dog whistle will be interpreted in the 'right' spirit by his voter base in UP. This confidence tells me that it will be a long wait for an administration change. But it will happen nevertheless

 

[SIPRA]

Joe - you are basically agreeing with me and saying the same stuff that I am saying except in a more diplomatic language.

Joe "mootar" main say macchliyaan pakarh raha hae.

@Joe Shearer: Give me another negative rating.

 

[dexter]

انڈیا کی جنوبی ریاست کرناٹک سے تعلق رکھنے والی 19 سالہ طالبہ مسکان خان کی ایک ویڈیو دو دن سے وائرل ہو رہی ہے۔ اس ویڈیو میں وہ حجاب پہن کر اپنے کالج میں ایک سکوٹی پر داخل ہوتی ہیں اور اس دوران انھیں دیکھ کر ایک ہجوم ’جے شری رام‘ کے نعرے بلند کرتا ہے اور اُن کا پیچھا کرتا ہے۔ یہ نوجوان انہیں حجاب پہن کر کالج داخل ہونے سے روکتے ہیں۔ لیکن مسکان اللہ اکبر کے نعرے لگاتی کالج کے اندر چلی جاتی ہیں۔ بی بی سی ہندی کو دیے گئے انٹرویو میں انھوں نے بتایا کہ اس دن کیا ہوا؟

May ALLAH SWT protect our sisters.

 

[Joe Shearer]

I think that there may be a change by mid 2030s.

Yesterday, Yogi used his Brahmastra. If people do not vote for BJP, then Yogiji has warned that UP will become like Kerala. Normally, people would say that UP should become like Kerala given that it is at the top of all social indicators in India (as per the BJP gov. report). Yet, he is so confident that this dog whistle will be interpreted in the 'right' spirit by his voter base in UP. This confidence tells me that it will be a long wait for an administration change. But it will happen nevertheless

Some of their warnings are comical. These comic-strip cartoons are our biggest hope for coming out of the dark times that we are in.

Joe - you are basically agreeing with me and saying the same stuff that I am saying except in a more diplomatic language.

Yes, and no.

I have my right, I hope you will agree, to hold my own views and opinions. Where you and I differ is in that you have written off all of Indian society, not merely the Islamophobes. I don't agree with that.

Further, you say that I am basically agreeing with you, and saying the same stuff. Sure, but not in all respects, perhaps to a large extent. How does that become a fault, if I agree that things are serious, but disagree on some specifics?

It is not diplomatic language, it is unwillingness to swallow the whole mixture as prescribed. I don't agree with your statement about the courts, for instance, and explained why. If you want to reduce that to the buffoonish interpretation given by another member, that is nothing to do with me, and please note that I say this as an example of how we might differ on specifics while agreeing on basics. There, too, what you consider basic, and what I consider basic, have to be examined very carefully, or we will fall into the trap of making mistaken assumptions about each other's position.

I hope you understand; I hope based on that understanding, you agree.

 

[HRK]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491738500672143364

 

[Vapnope]

The court does have the power to decide, in consultation with religious experts, if the hijab is an integral part of religious observance. It is extremely unlikely to agree, and is likely to rule that it is a social observance. The usual caution is advisable; until the verdict is out, it cannot be forecast, forecasting a court judgement is an extremely unwise thing to do. This outcome, for the reasons given, is a personal opinion.

I agree that the rule should apply to all, the unfortunate difficulty being that nobody else has such a visible social observance to be ruled against, except for the Sikh turban.

Joe, the problem here is that from your statement it seems that you are assuming that muslims are a monolith (I know you don't think so). Which religious experts would court listen to? There are many schools of thoughts in Islam and almost all believe in some kind of pardah with variation.

If you ask me, court should be deciding the things that can effect other people like smoking in a public space, blocking the road for worship, use of loudspeaker for prayer, however wearing Hijab (not niqab) in a school should not be a concern.

 

[Vapnope]

@Joe Shearer and @Vapnope

Read these two excellent posts on the topic from Gautam Bhatia and Hari Ramesh

The Essential Religious Practices Test and the Inversion of Agency: Notes from the Hijab Hearing

The essential religious practices test [“ERP”] is one of the enduring burdens of Indian constitutional law. Its origins (as I have shown here) lie in a judicial misreading of one senten…

indconlawphil.wordpress.com

Guest Post: The Hijab Case through the Lens of Article 19(1)(a)

[This is a guest post by Hari Kartik Ramesh.] Controversy has raged in the corridors of educational institutions in Karnataka on the matter of uniforms. In the beginning of 2022, the Karnataka gove…

indconlawphil.wordpress.com

Let me also add - unlike the US - where personal belief in a religious practice makes it essential and protectable, India takes the opposite approach, where the onus is on the petitioner to prove that the religious practice is essential and examples of those not following the religion are held as examples of it non-essentiality.

Thank you posting this logical piece.

 

[peagle]

The very fact that such a discussion is taking place, on such a simple a topic, which is dividing the Indian nation on the streets is shameful on it's own.

India is not some western nation with centuries of enlightenment movements behind it, that evolved under various modernist philosophical and religious movements to drive it forward.

India was and remains a deeply conservative society, where women of all faiths, including Muslims, Christian and Hindu amongst others are the honour of the family and carry all the implications associated with that honorific title.

"Purdah" in various forms is alive among Hindus, Muslims and other religious groups of India, it is not an alien concept, if anyone does not know, then they are blind to the reality of India. India remains a deeply traditional society, baring silly pockets in urban areas, who seem to think they represent India, they are nothing but a speck of dirt on the landscape that is India.

You all should be worried that you are having to argue on such a topic, whether attacking or in defence, it is not a good omen, a good sign, nor a good harbinger of things to come.


Good luck to all of you, I am certain if such dramas continue, you are going to need all of it, and more.

 

[Inception-06]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1491738500672143364

Hopefully now Indian Muslims will stop voting for BJP, not participating in wars against Pakistan, starting a peacefully movement for their basic rights in India, and shake with their marching the Indian earth, maybe then and only then they can expect anything more then a crocodile tear from Pakistan, otherwise they deserve for what they voted !

 

[Joe Shearer]

Joe, the problem here is that from your statement it seems that you are assuming that muslims are a monolith (I know you don't think so).

Oh, no, no, not at all.

Which religious experts would court listen to? There are many schools of thoughts in Islam and almost all believe in some kind of pardah with variation.

To be honest, I am not competent to go into that. We already know that the basic practice, that is known as ERP, is defective; @xeuss has forwarded two excellent articles about that practice.

The fact is that this is the current practice; we have to wait for the courts at some point of time to tell themselves and the world at large that this is not their business.

If you ask me, court should be deciding the things that can effect other people like smoking in a public space, blocking the road for worship, use of loudspeaker for prayer, however wearing Hijab (not niqab) in a school should not be a concern.

I agree, personally, but you do realise that the court reference was made by an aggrieved Muslim? (the court being the Karnataka High Court).

The court is now damned if it does, damned if it does not. If it refuses to take up the matter, the petitioner will feel aggrieved; if it takes it up, the respondents will feel that it is going out of its way and interfering with the right of educational institutions to run their institutions the way they want.

I am hardly in a position to defend either possibility, but can only say the following:

The private colleges fudged the rules under political pressure to make hijab wearing irregular and out of the rules.
The politicians, desperate to hang on to power, have poured fuel on the flames to the maximum extent.
The young women who insisted on their rights and faced off a mob of cowards deserve the greatest respect.

The area where this trouble is taking place is in that belt on the coast where the Hindutvavadi forces are very strong. A few hundred kilometres to the south of this belt, in the Bekal area, the Islamic activists are very strong.

 

[HRK]

Hopefully now Indian Muslims will stop voting for BJP, not participating in wars against Pakistan, starting a peacefully movement for their basic rights !in India, and shake with their marching the Ida earth, maybe then and only then they can expect anything more then a crocodile tear from Pakistan, otherwise they deserve for what they voted !

No this will not happen in fact they will accused Pakistan for their suffering even more .... they will blame Pakistan more loudly and forcefully

 

[Joe Shearer]

The very fact that such a discussion is taking place, on such a simple a topic, which is dividing the Indian nation on the streets is shameful on it's own.

India is not some western nation with centuries of enlightenment movements behind it, that evolved under various modernist philosophical and religious movements to drive it forward.

India was and remains a deeply conservative society, where women of all faiths, including Muslims, Christian and Hindu amongst others are the honour of the family and carry all the implications associated with that honorific title.

"Purdah" in various forms is alive among Hindus, Muslims and other religious groups of India, it is not an alien concept, if anyone does not know, then they are blind to the reality of India. India remains a deeply traditional society, baring silly pockets in urban areas, who seem to think they represent India, they are nothing but a speck of dirt on the landscape that is India.

You all should be worried that you are having to argue on such a topic, whether attacking or in defence, it is not a good omen, a good sign, nor a good harbinger of things to come.


Good luck to all of you, I am certain if such dramas continue, you are going to need all of it, and more.

Perhaps you are right; you are probably right.

I wish I could say conclusively that you are wrong. I cannot.

Hopefully now Indian Muslims will stop voting for BJP, not participating in wars against Pakistan, starting a peacefully movement for their basic rights !in India, and shake with their marching the Ida earth, maybe then and only then they can expect anything more then a crocodile tear from Pakistan, otherwise they deserve for what they voted !

I hope you will not be offended is, as an Indian, I agree with some of your propositions, but not all.
I hope also that you realise that the last thing Muslim Indians want is crocodile tears or anything more from Pakistan or Pakistanis.

No this will not happen in fact they will accused Pakistan for their suffering even more .... they will blame Pakistan more loudly and forcefully

They may, if Pakistanis take it upon themselves to get involved.

 

[PakFactor]

Perhaps you are right; you are probably right.

I wish I could say conclusively that you are wrong. I cannot.

The far-right movement has affected every nation in certain ways, a harbinger of dangerous times to come.