Mujib’s memoirs - Hamid Mir

[eastwatch]

People may not like what I say in many posts against religious extremisms. I think I am not wrong in my assessment. Look at the news below that I saw in today's newspaper. Read how the Muslims, so eager to win an after death Paradise, are fighting against each other in Kabul and making that country a living hell. Refer to Syed Mujtaba Ali's "Deshe Bideshe." He wrote people of Kabul are Persian speaking, and I guess they, being of Iranian descent, are overwhelmingly Shia. But, the Pathans are Sunni. Now, they are against each other's throats, all in the name of Allah and Islam.

Afghan student killed in sectarian clash

 

[Zabaniyah]

The Christians that are united are all white and so being the same race helps.

Muslims are of many different races and therefore the human instinct racism comes into play.

White Christians are using their political, military and economic power to manipulative, bribe and threaten Muslims to be divided.

And Turkey is a member of NATO?

Suffice to say, Pakistan and Thailand are major non-NATO allies.

I find it rich that you are living in a "white" majority country

People may not like what I say in many posts against religious extremisms. I think I am not wrong in my assessment. Look at the news below that I saw in today's newspaper. Read how the Muslims, so eager to win an after death Paradise, are fighting against each other in Kabul and making that country a living hell. Refer to Syed Mujtaba Ali's "Deshe Bideshe." He wrote people of Kabul are Persian speaking, and I guess they, being of Iranian descent, are overwhelmingly Shia. But, the Pathans are Sunni. Now, they are against each other's throats, all in the name of Allah and Islam.

Afghan student killed in sectarian clash

Not that Bangladesh has any hand in such things.

It maintains good relations with all Muslim countries. It's not trying to "destroy" them or "divide them or anything.

Why should we give a damn if the Saudis and the Iranis are at each other's necks? It is their choice.

Anyhow, no sane nation should sacrifice its own well-being and its rights for the sake of some fictional religious unity. Only a delusional fool would be in a house that is destined to collapse.

 

[Hellraiser007]

Bade Bade Deshon Mein, Aisi Choti Choti Baatein Hote Rahtein

-SK

This is from Bollywood

 

[Hellraiser007]

Very sorry to know about your uncles and grandfather. However, please check under what circumstances they were killed. Because the Biharis in Mirpur kept on fighting until probably 20th December, 1971 without surrendering. IA troops withdrew because it was uselesss for them to to be killed. Muktis took over and many non-Bengalis were certainly killed in the fighting. But, the Biharis fought bravely and died like heroes. It was probably stopped by the Red Cross intervention, without which many lakhs would have been killed. Red Cross came in between to stop firings.

PA's Punjabi troops did a great thing though, they surrendered to IA troops which was dominated by their same language Sikh kins. PA did not care what would happen to the Biharis. Tiger (or Billi?) Niazi eagerly signed a surrendering document without a clause in it for the Bihari safety. Martial race Punjabis should have fought until the last person, but they disappointed the half-naked Muktis.

Mate West Punjabis are not martial race neither do they have that tradition. They learnt the soldier skills from British.

 

[baldFish]

Mate West Punjabis are not martial race neither do they have that tradition. They learnt the soldier skills from British.

lmao @ martial race that part of the subcontinent has been invaded and conquered the most!

 

[UKBengali]

And Turkey is a member of NATO?

Suffice to say, Pakistan and Thailand are major non-NATO allies.

I find it rich that you are living in a "white" majority country

Turkey is being denied EU membership for aeons while less rich countries like Romania are already in.

Turkey's membership of NATO is a historical aberration due to the end of WW2.

Pakistan, major non-nato ally, is being bombed by the US on a daily basis.

There is nothing wrong with calling a spade a spade.

BTW, did you even have a point that you wanted to raise?

 

[Zabaniyah]

Turkey is being denied EU membership for aeons while less rich countries like Romania are already in.

Who in their right mind would want to join such a failed union? And Turkey wasn't allowed to join just because it isn't "white", or just because it is "Muslim", but it was because of its human rights record at the time. Though, there can be exceptions like far-right wing groups.

No Turk in their right mind would want to join that fail right now. They are economically doing very well right now.

Turkey's membership of NATO is a historical aberration due to the end of WW2.

And it is a secured state, is it not?

Pakistan, major non-nato ally, is being bombed by the US on a daily basis.

And what about Thailand? ROK? Japan?

To throw in some Muslim countries, there's Morocco, Jordan, Egypt, Bahrain, Kuwait and very recently Afghanistan.

Pakistan's problems are unique to its own. Let's no go into that.

BTW, did you even have a point that you wanted to raise?

Yeah, your hypocrisy.

 

[UKBengali]

Yeah, your hypocrisy.

Can't be bothered replying to all the points of your post as you are talking nonsense now.

Talking about how puppet states like Afghanistan that were invaded by Nato in the first place and are now being "protected" by them is a real joke.

You made some comments without thinking through the point I was trying to make, and rather than keep quiet you are only digging yourself in deeper.

Cheerio!

 

[Hammer-fist]

Going back to the topic.

1. Hamid Mir is pro-Bangladeshi and wants reconciliation to be bought about initiated by an official state apology.

2. Imran Khan is pro-Bangladeshi, had Bangladeshi friends in the UK and when he visited Bangladesh as Pakistan cricket captain was overwhelmed at the huge support for Pakistan in the Dhaka stadium with virtually everyone supporting Muslim Pakistan against Hindu India.

3. Nawaz Sharif is pro-Bangladeshi as well. He and the BNP in Bangladesh are aligned to each other and the BNP is nothing more than the old Muslim League but in another format, and both are pro-Saudi. Nawaz Sharif's PML-N has a Bengali wing in Karachi.

4. The PPP is extremely anti-Bangladeshi and anti-Bengali. PPP-walas (including those in London) are also known to be very secular if not anti-Islamic. There will never be an apology to Bangladesh under the party created by traitor Ali Bhutto (who broke up Pakistan) and which a few years ago had Tikk Khan (the butcher of Balochistan) as a PPP member and governor of Punjab.

For fellow Bangladeshis to understand who the PPP are, here are some videos. Btw other Pakistani political parties do not speak like this.

PPP politician abuses PML-N politician with a ****** and vulgar language on air.

PPP thug physically attacks another Pakistani

 

[Armstrong]

@Hammer-fist : First off in the political spectrum of things Bangladesh & '71 is a non-issue...it just doesn't pop up !

Secondly - Pakistanis are overwhelmingly so Pro-Bangladesh ! (If I had to put a figure on it, which barring anecdotally I can't, it would be well in excess of 90%) but whereas we'd apologize for marginalizing the Bengalis in East-Pakistan & how extra-judicial killings & abuses may have & did occur in the '71 war we do not accept that we butchered 3 million Bengalis & raped countless hundreds of thousands of Bengali women. We're not going to apologize for that.

 

[Hammer-fist]

PPP's Sharmila Farooqi verbally abuses a Pakistani then slaps him.

Semi-literate PPP thug goes beserk and does not allow other Pakistani to speak.

Traitor Ali Bhutto insults 70 million Bangladeshis and calls them pigs.

Anyway Ali Bhutto and the PPP were taught a good lesson by the Pakistani army under Zia ul Haq a few years later.

 

[Hammer-fist]

@Hammer-fist : First off in the political spectrum of things Bangladesh & '71 is a non-issue...it just doesn't pop up !

Secondly - Pakistanis are overwhelmingly so Pro-Bangladesh ! (If I had to put a figure on it, which barring anecdotally I can't, it would be well in excess of 90%) but whereas we'd apologize for marginalizing the Bengalis in East-Pakistan & how extra-judicial killings & abuses may have & did occur in the '71 war we do not accept that we butchered 3 million Bengalis & raped countless hundreds of thousands of Bengali women. We're not going to apologize for that.

1. The figure of 3 million is an Awami League lie and exaggeration. However the true figure may be 0.3 million (as agreed by both Pakistani and Bangladeshi historians a few years ago in the US).

0.3 million or even 0.1 million (100,000) is a huge number of people. Israel has not killed this number of Palestinians or Gaddafi killed this number of people before he was overthrown.

2. I do not blame the ordinary Pakistani for the actions of Yahya Khan and Ali Bhutto, though I condemn those Bengali-haters (including the many on this forum) who abuse Bangladeshis and call us traitors and teach their children to hate us.

Those who were at fault were two institutions

a: The Pakistani military
b: The PPP

3. I agree with Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir and Pakistani politician Imran Khan that an apology should be given and then there is also the issue of pre-71 assets and compensation.

This may never be given, but Bangladesh is doing well and will continue to do so as we work hard to catch up with Indonesia which was once behind us and then join other south-east Asian nations.

 

[Armstrong]

1. The figure of 3 million is an Awami League lie and exaggeration. However the true figure may be 0.3 million (as agreed by both Pakistani and Bangladeshi historians a few years ago in the US).

0.3 million or even 0.1 million (100,000) is a huge number of people. Israel has not killed this number of Palestinians or Gaddafi killed this number of people before he was overthrown.

2. I do not blame the ordinary Pakistani for the actions of Yahya Khan and Ali Bhutto, though I condemn those Bengali-haters (including the many on this forum) who abuse Bangladeshis and call us traitors and teach their children to hate us.

Those who were at fault were two institutions

a: The Pakistani military
b: The PPP

3. I agree with Pakistani journalist Hamid Mir and Pakistani politician Imran Khan that an apology should be given and then there is also the issue of pre-71 assets and compensation.

This may never be given, but Bangladesh is doing well and will continue to do so as we work hard to catch up with Indonesia which was once behind us and then join other south-east Asian nations.

We don't recognize the 0.3million figure either..its more of a few thousand figure from where we stand ! Lets open an inquiry into it & put it to bed decisively once & for all. Look through old records, exhume the graves, compare our findings, investigate how many Bihari & West-Pakistani civilians that were killed have been clubbed into that & how many were Bengalis & if the Indians or the Mukhti Bahini themselves could have played a part in some of those killings for whatever reason ? Explore all of that...rule out what can be & determine what could be determined !

And I'd a 3rd 'at-fault' group here :

(c) People of Pakistan (both the East & the West) for being played by the institutions, the elite & the Indians.

 

[Hammer-fist]

By the way I personally believe this as well.

i: All Bangladeshi governments (be they BNP or Awami League) must immediately downgrade ties with Pakistan whenever a PPP regime comes in to power.

This can include: Not attending functions in Pakistan, minimizing all contact, sending a very minor person as high commissioner to Islamabad.

ii: All senior PPP personnel should have a file on them kept by Bangladesh intelligence (DGFI & NSI) and in general should not be given visas to enter Bangladesh.

iii: Businessmen affiliated to the PPP should not be given any Bangladesh-related deals and the DGFI should keep a check on which Pakistani businessman is PPP connected.

iv: All PPP-affiliated websites should be banned in Bangladesh.

The PPP as a party in the form of traitor Asif Zardari and his son and co-leader of the PPP should issue a public apology to

a: Pakistan and Bangladesh, to Pakistan for breaking up the federation and to Bangladesh for carrying out genocide.


I do not believe this should apply to any other political party and we should definitely have good relations with Pakistan if there is a PML, PTI or other government.

 

[Armstrong]

@Hammer-fist : Bhutto, if he was responsible for all of that mess (he claimed being innocent & blamed it all on Yahya Khan), is long dead & the PPP, though thoroughly corrupt (like every other party in Pakistan), isn't evil incarnate ! Its not the Nazi Party we're talking about for godsake its the Pakistan People's Party which has had some good contributions to the country amidst many bad & individuals, not institutions, should be judged.