MPVs (Four 600 T, Two 1500T) for the PMSA - Discussions

[Rocky rock]

have you forgotten about the fappning [emoji38]

You want me to try it on you? [emoji1][emoji1]

 

[niaz]

It is interesting to note how the responsibility of Coastal Defence varies from country to country.

In the UK Coast Guard is primarily a Search & Rescue Service. It is neither military nor a law enforcing service. It acts more like a “Life Guard” on the UK Coast. Coastal Defence being responsibility of the Royal Navy & Coastal Border Control under the Border Force which is under the Home Office and is responsible for controlling illegal immigration as well as anti –smuggling operations.

The United States Coast Guards on the other hand is a branch of the United States Armed Forces. It is a combined maritime, military, multi-mission service. US Coast Guard's responsibility includes maritime safety, security, and enforcing U.S. law in the US’s economic zone spanning 3.4 million square miles. Additionally the Coast Guard can carry out military operations under the Department of Defence. In other words US Coast Guards are the guardians of the US maritime borders in truest sense of word.

In Pakistan’s case the responsibilities seem a bit ambiguous. As I understand it, enforcing national jurisdiction and sovereignty and protecting Pakistan’s maritime interests in the maritime zones is the responsibility of the Maritime Security Agency. Whereas Coast Guards are part of the paramilitary force like the Rangers and protect Pakistan’s coast but only up to the international 12 mile limit of the coast line.

There must be some overlapping of the two services; wouldn’t it be better if the PMSA & Coast Guards are placed under a unified command?

 

[syed_yusuf]

It is interesting to note how the responsibility of Coastal Defence varies from country to country.

In the UK Coast Guard is primarily a Search & Rescue Service. It is neither military nor a law enforcing service. It acts more like a “Life Guard” on the UK Coast. Coastal Defence being responsibility of the Royal Navy & Coastal Border Control under the Border Force which is under the Home Office and is responsible for controlling illegal immigration as well as anti –smuggling operations.

The United States Coast Guards on the other hand is a branch of the United States Armed Forces. It is a combined maritime, military, multi-mission service. US Coast Guard's responsibility includes maritime safety, security, and enforcing U.S. law in the US’s economic zone spanning 3.4 million square miles. Additionally the Coast Guard can carry out military operations under the Department of Defence. In other words US Coast Guards are the guardians of the US maritime borders in truest sense of word.

In Pakistan’s case the responsibilities seem a bit ambiguous. As I understand it, enforce national jurisdiction and sovereignty and protecting Pakistan’s maritime interests in the maritime zones is the responsibility of the Maritime Security Agency. Whereas Coast Guards are part of the paramilitary force like the Rangers and protect Pakistan’s coast but only up to the international 12 mile limit of the coast line.

There must be some overlapping of the two services; wouldn’t it be better if the PMSA & Coast Guards are placed under a unified command?

Actually i agree, this has been bothering me for some time now. and as to why 2 different organizations with some over lapping duties and a similar role.

 

[mikaal hassan]

It is interesting to note how the responsibility of Coastal Defence varies from country to country.

In the UK Coast Guard is primarily a Search & Rescue Service. It is neither military nor a law enforcing service. It acts more like a “Life Guard” on the UK Coast. Coastal Defence being responsibility of the Royal Navy & Coastal Border Control under the Border Force which is under the Home Office and is responsible for controlling illegal immigration as well as anti –smuggling operations.

The United States Coast Guards on the other hand is a branch of the United States Armed Forces. It is a combined maritime, military, multi-mission service. US Coast Guard's responsibility includes maritime safety, security, and enforcing U.S. law in the US’s economic zone spanning 3.4 million square miles. Additionally the Coast Guard can carry out military operations under the Department of Defence. In other words US Coast Guards are the guardians of the US maritime borders in truest sense of word.

In Pakistan’s case the responsibilities seem a bit ambiguous. As I understand it, enforcing national jurisdiction and sovereignty and protecting Pakistan’s maritime interests in the maritime zones is the responsibility of the Maritime Security Agency. Whereas Coast Guards are part of the paramilitary force like the Rangers and protect Pakistan’s coast but only up to the international 12 mile limit of the coast line.

There must be some overlapping of the two services; wouldn’t it be better if the PMSA & Coast Guards are placed under a unified command?

sir would it have been better in your view just to merge PMSA AND COST GUARD together for better efficiency .we can get a lot more out of the merger and easily can equip them with more people and upgraded equipment .Right now the requirement is for more ships and boats not for more buildings or offices and admirals

 

[DJ_Viper]

i think the most user friendly operating system is Windows phone by Nokia. and after it Andriod. The IOS is the most complex OS. You can start the poll to get my opinion clear from others. Apple just make it look different something Special/Unique from other phones i would say they just know how to make people fool. one thing i would like about Apple is that it's secure that's it.

When the world didn't know about touch and go, the IPod was created. When the world didn't know about screen swap, the IPhone was invented. The techies love Windows and Android. 99% of end-users like ease of use. That comes with the IPhone. Although over the years others have gotten better but the number 1 brand is what people want. Number 2 and 3's always remain number 2 and 3's while number 1 rules and piles up cash like crazies!

 

[Penguin]

The issue isn't about "P" or the "MSA", the issue is the easy to understand. And no, MSA isn't a commonly used phrase compared to when you see the big lettered words "Coast Guards" or "Maritime Security" (or Pakistan Maritime Security). Why Apple has more cash then any other business combined (and more than the US government)? Because they made it easy to understand how a Phone or tablet can work. Similarly, make it easy on the global ships. If you know anything about the shipping business, there are very few educated people in a Cargo ship. Trust me on that. But the ships and the force looks very impressive.

Enough said.

 

[Rocky rock]

Enough said.

[emoji1] [emoji1] [emoji4] [emoji4] (y)

 

[DJ_Viper]

Enough said.

Ok.....and the point was? You should re-read the entire set of posts before you put the image and try to "prove" something when there is nothing really to prove. I was giving out my personal opinion. You can post another 100 of these images, my stance won't change. I think the ships, including the one you posted, should still clearly say in English the total name of the MSA. Now, responses like you, turn the thread into a trolling fest. You could've just ignored my post knowing it was a personal opinion, rather a state's stance on a critical issue!

 

[Penguin]

Ok.....and the point was? You should re-read the entire set of posts before you put the image and try to "prove" something when there is nothing really to prove. I was giving out my personal opinion. You can post another 100 of these images, my stance won't change. I think the ships, including the one you posted, should still clearly say in English the total name of the MSA. Now, responses like you, turn the thread into a trolling fest. You could've just ignored my post knowing it was a personal opinion, rather a state's stance on a critical issue!

Yeah, lots of trolling erupted following my post ..... [not!]

I too gave my personal opinion. Like you, I am free to do so here.

Clearly, you missed that the MSAs - and notably the Ss - in China MSA and Pakistan MSA are different. Moreover, the A in MSA in China has 2 forms. Thus actually demonstrating the need to spell out MSA.

China Maritime Safety Agency https://www.marinelink.com/news/maritime/china-maritime-safety-agency

China Maritime Safety Administration http://en.msa.gov.cn/
(the only maritime administrative agency that was not merged into the new China Coast Guard in June 2013. The CMSA retains its safety and control ["traffic police"] remit, while the new CCG concentrates all other law enforcement and policing duties).

Pakistan Maritime Security Agency http://www.pmsa.gov.pk/

Please don't cry.

 

[DJ_Viper]

Yeah, lots of trolling erupted following my post ..... [not!]

I too gave my personal opinion. Like you, I am free to do so here.

Clearly, you missed that the MSAs - and notably the Ss - in China MSA and Pakistan MSA are different. Moreover, the A in MSA in China has 2 forms. Thus actually demonstrating the need to spell out MSA.

China Maritime Safety Agency http://en.msa.gov.cn/

China Maritime Safety Administration https://www.marinelink.com/news/maritime/china-maritime-safety-agency
(the only maritime administrative agency that was not merged into the new China Coast Guard in June 2013. The CMSA retains its safety and control ["traffic police"] remit, while the new CCG concentrates all other law enforcement and policing duties).

Pakistan Maritime Security Agency http://www.pmsa.gov.pk/

Please don't cry.

 

[Penguin]

Unlike CCG (China CG) ships, China MSA ships are unarmed

China Marine Surveillance (CMS) used to be a maritime surveillance agency of China. Established 1998, the CMS, charged with the supervisory responsibility for some 3 million square kilometers of Chinese declared territorial waters, employs some 7,000 individuals and operates some 10 aircraft, including at least one Mil Mi-8 helicopter and two Harbin Y-12 utility planes, and 400 seagoing vessels. It has grown in fleet size and capability.Its fleet is made up of, in part, destroyers and other former Chinese Navy vessels. In March 2013, China announced the creation of a unified Coast Guard commanded by the State Oceanic Administration. The move has merged China Marine Surveillance into the China Coast Guard.
Patrol vessels from China Marine Surveillance were commonly deployed to locations in the South China Sea and East China Sea where China has territorial disputes over islands with its neighbors. The CMS has played a central role in China's increasing assertiveness in the South China Sea, encountering opposition from Japan, the Philippines and Vietnam in the disputed territories, as China tries to lock up natural resources to meet its demands as the world's largest energy consumer. As one senior US naval intelligence officer has put it, the mission of China Marine Surveillance is to "harass other nations into submitting to China's expansive claims."

The China Coast Guard (CCG) serves as coordinating agency for maritime search and rescue and law enforcement in the territorial waters of the People's Republic of China. The China Coast Guard was formerly the maritime branch of the People's Armed Police (PAP). In March 2013, China announced it would form a unified Coast Guard commanded by the State Oceanic Administration. The CCG is known to perform mostly coastal and oceanic search and rescue or patrols, including anti-smuggling operations. During wartime, it may be placed under the operational control of the People's Liberation Army Navy. Roles of the CCG are diverse but include:

• Patrol of territorial waters and disputed territories
• Anti-smuggling, anti-piracy
• Maritime policing and ship inspections
• Harbour and coastal security
• Research and survey
• Search and Rescue
• Fisheries protection

The CCG has received quite a few large patrol ships that would significantly enhance their operations. Hai Guan(customs), militia, police and other services operate hundreds of small patrol craft. For maritime patrol services, these craft are usually quite well armed with machine guns and 37mm AA guns. Typical Coast Guard ships include the 130 ton Type 218 patrol boat (100 boats), armed with twin 14.5mm machine guns, assorted speedboats, and few larger patrol ships. Up until very recently, the largest ship in Chinese Coast Guard service was the 1,500 ton Type 718 cutter (31101 Pudong). In March 2007, it was reported that the PLAN has transferred 2 Type 728 cutter (44102, ex-509 Changde modified Type 053H frigate; 46103，ex-510 Shaoxing modified Type 053H frigate) to the Coast Guard and re-numbered them as 1002 & 1003 Oceanic Patrol Vessels. These ships are the largest vessels in the Coast Guard inventory.
In addition, these services operate their own small aviation units to assist their maritime patrol capabilities. CCG operates a handful of Harbin Z-9 helicopters, and a maritime patrol aircraft based on the Harbin Y-12 STOL transport. In March, 2016, a MA-60H maritime patrol aircraft with CCG painting was published by Chinese media.

The Maritime Safety Administration of the People's Republic of China (CMSA) is a government agency which administers all matters related to maritime and shipping safety, including the supervision of maritime traffic safety and security, prevention of pollution from ships, inspection of ships and offshore facilities, navigational safety measures (including Search and Rescue, Aids to Navigation and the GMDSS), administrative management of port operations, and law enforcement on matters of maritime safety law. It was also responsible for marine accident investigation. It was formed in October 1998 by the merger of the China Ship Inspection Bureau and the China Port Supervision Bureau into a comprehensive agency of maritime affairs, subordinate to the Ministry of Transport of the People's Republic of China. The China MSA was the only maritime administrative agency that was not merged into the new China Coast Guard in June 2013. The CMSA retains its safety and control ("traffic police") remit, while the new CCG concentrates all other law enforcement and policing duties.
The MSA's 25,000 officials, other working staff, operate a patrol force of 1,300 vessels and watercraft of various types. These include 207 patrol vessels of 20 meters and greater length, 2 are 100 meters and above, 2 are 60 meters and above, 18 are 40 meters and above, 59 are 30 meters and above and 126 are 20 meters and above. Avaiation assets include:

• Harbin Z-9 helicopter - contracted out to CITIC Offshore Helicopter
• Eurocopter EC 135
• Changhe Aircraft Industries Corporation CA109

Below copied from: https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/paki...o-be-built-at-ksew.501319/page-7#post-9570364

The Pakistan Maritime Security Agency

• is a law enforcement service
• is one of the six uniform service branch of the Paramilitary command of Pakistan.
  
• is operationally tasked with conducting the maritime, military, multi-mission service unique among the Pakistan military branches having the maritime law enforcement mission (with jurisdiction in both domestic and international waters).
  
• is the executive regulatory agency of the Government of Pakistan
  
• operates under the Ministry of Defence (MoD) during peacetime, but it can be transferred to Pakistan Navy by the governmental orders during the time of war.

The Pakistan Coast Guards

• is a law enforcement organization
  
• is one of the six uniform services of the Paramilitary command
  
• is functioning and operating under the civilian control of the Interior Ministry (MoI).
• work under administrative control of Ministry of Interior in peace time whereas it will come under operational control of Pakistan Army in wartime situations.
• consist of active-duty members of Pakistan Army and are commanded by one-star rank Brigadier who is headquartered in Karachi, Sindh Province of Pakistan.
• are charged and mandated with protecting the coastal areas of Balochistan and Sindh Province while it conducts military exercises and operations relating to riverine warfare.

The Coast Guards should not be confused with the Maritime Security Agency (MSA) of the Pakistan Navy, which is by law and constitution, charged with defence of coastal areas of the country, conducting military operations to maintain maritime law enforcement in national and international waters.

The Coast Guards were first established as the Maritime Security Agency in 1971 and constituted operationally in 1972 through a Presidential Ordinance. The Parliament restored the constitutional status of the Branch after passing and promulgating the "Coast Guards Act" in 1973 and recognized as one of the six uniformed services of Paramilitary Command. Since then, it has upgraded its facilities and fleet to bolster its capabilities of littoral patrolling of the coast line.

In addition to land based troops, the Coast Guards also maintains a small fleet of patrol boats to perform its sea-borne duties, although the operations in deep water and dangerous undertaking are conducted by its counterpart Maritime Security Agency (MSA) of Pakistan Navy.

____________________

The Navy also maintains a paramilitary division which prevents federal navy personnel from acting in a law enforcement capacity. The Maritime Security Agency (MSA) fulfils the law enforcement role in naval operations. The MSA has the capacity to conduct search and rescue operations in deep waters of Pakistan. The Agency was established after adopting the genesis at the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea in 1982. Pakistan ratified the UN Convention in 1997 but established the MSA on 1 January 1987, for enforcement of national and international laws, policies and conventions at sea.

The MSA gained its constitutional status in 1994 by the Parliament and is now placed under the command of the Navy, commanded by an officer of two-star rank, a Rear-Admiral.

The Pakistan Coast Guard serves the same purpose as the Navy but, is a separate branch from it. The Coast Guard's duties include relief efforts in the coastal areas of Pakistan, riverine rescue operations, and distribution of military rations. The Coast Guard does not perform operations in deep waters, rather such operations are performed by the MSA. However, it uses the mobility of the Pakistan Navy depending on the type of operations it conducts. The Coast Guard is under the command of the Pakistan Army and contains active-duty army members. It is commanded by a two-star rank Major-General
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Navy#Coast_Guard

The Pakistan Maritime Security Agency is equipped with four [Barkat class] corvettes, and nine small fast response boats (FBP). The agency also operates three Britten-Norman Defender aircraft for the purposes of search and rescue and navigation. Former Navy destroyer (ex USN ship, ex PN ship) PMSS Nazim was decommissioned on 6 October 2010 and scrapped in Pakistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maritime_Security_Agency#Equipment

PMSA: Six patrol boats which will eventually replace the ageing Barkat Class Boats of PMSA. Of these ships four will be 600 ton while two will be 1500 ton.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Navy#Patrol_Craft
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/mpvs-four-600-t-two-1500t-for-the-pmsa-discussions.429179/

1500 ton MPV

 

[HRK]

In Pakistan’s case the responsibilities seem a bit ambiguous. As I understand it, enforcing national jurisdiction and sovereignty and protecting Pakistan’s maritime interests in the maritime zones is the responsibility of the Maritime Security Agency. Whereas Coast Guards are part of the paramilitary force like the Rangers and protect Pakistan’s coast but only up to the international 12 mile limit of the coast line.

There must be some overlapping of the two services; wouldn’t it be better if the PMSA & Coast Guards are placed under a unified command?

Functions of PMSA: http://www.pmsa.gov.pk/function.php

• Enforce National and International laws, agreements and conventions in the Maritime Zones.
• Prevent unauthorized exploitation of economic resources within the Maritime Zones.
• Protect Pakistani fishing vessels and crew against any threat within the Maritime Zones.
• Assist and co-ordinate Search & Rescue of the vessels, property and lives in distress at sea.
• Assist and coordinate with national and international agencies to prevent and control the effects of marine disasters including pollution.
• Assist and co-ordinate with national and International agencies in hydrographic and oceanographic research and other scientific activities.
• Assist other departments and agencies in safeguarding and protecting offshore installations/structures in the EEZ.
• Provide assistance for petroleum and other mineral exploration in our Maritime zones.
• Co-operate with and provide help to other departments and agencies at sea in the discharge of their duties and functions.
• Perform such other functions as may be assigned by Govt to protect maritime interests of Pakistan.

Functions of Coast Guards: https://www.pakistanarmy.gov.pk/awpreview/textcontent.aspx?pid=156

• primary task of preventing smuggling along the coastline.
• Prevention of illegal immigration to and migration from the country.
• Stopping enemy agents or saboteurs from infiltrating into the country along the coastal areas.
• Supplementing defence of Coastline in war.

Jurisdiction of PMSA: From coastline to seaward and covers all maritime zones of Pakistan. These include:

• Territorial waters 12 NM
• Contiguous zone 24 NM
• Exclusive Economic Zone 200 NM
• Extended Continental shelf 350 NM
• PMSA is also responsible for Search and Rescue in a large area assigned by International Maritime Organization (IMO) up to 840 NM from the coast.

Jurisdiction of Coast Guards: Area of responsibility of Pakistan Coast Guards extends

• From Pak-Iran in the west to the the Indian boarder in the East, covering a frontage of 960 kilometers.
• Pakistan Coast Guards is also looking after an area of 160 Kms along Pak - Iran and 45 Kms along Indian boarders.
• The Inland depth varies from 40 to 200 Kms.
• In the sea, it is response of an area of 12 NMs (22.22 Kms).

Operational activities of PMSA at sea:

• Protection of EEZ Resources
• Protection of own fishermen
• Search and Rescue (SAR) Efforts
• Implementation of Deep Sea Fishing Policy
• Marine Pollution Control
• Anti Narcotics/Anti Smuggling Operations
• Counter Terrorism / Human Trafficking
• Regional Cooperation

Operational activities of Coast Guards:

• Anti Human Trafficking
• Anti Narcotics
• Preventing Smuggling
• Preventing Infiltration from Sea

LEGAL POWERS OF PMSA:

• Customs Officer (by Federal Board of Revenue)
• Fishery Officer (by Min of P & S [Fisheries Wing])
• Police Officer (by PMSA Act)
• Anti Narcotics Officer (by Min of Narcotics Control)
• Marine Environment Monitoring Officer (by Min of Climate Change)

LEGAL POWERS OF Coast Guards:

• Control of narcotics substance (Under CNS Act 1997)
• Policing Powers under (Police Act 1861)

Organization of PMSA:

• Headed by Director General (a serving Rear Admiral from Pakistan Navy)
• Assisted by a Deputy Director General (a serving Commodore of Pakistan Navy)
• Function Under Ministry of Defence

Organization of Coast Guards:

• Headed by a Director General (A Brigadier level officer)
• The officers of the Force are seconded from the Army and Navy for a period of two to three years
• Functions under the Ministry of Interior (during war would become part of Ministry of Defence)

PMSA ACT: http://www.pmsa.gov.pk/act.php
Pakistan Coast Guards Act: http://pakistancode.gov.pk/english/UY2FqaJw1-apaUY2Fqa-bpuUY2hp-sg-jjjjjjjjjjjjj

 

[niaz]

From the post above, it is quite clear that the Coast Guards & PMSA have overlapping responsibilities. In my humble opinion it would not hurt to combine the two services into a single force as was the case:

Quote

The Coast Guards were first established as the Maritime Security Agency in 1971 and constituted operationally in 1972 through a Presidential Ordinance. The Parliament restored the constitutional status of the Branch after passing and promulgating the "Coast Guards Act" in 1973 and recognized as one of the six uniformed services of Paramilitary Command. Since then, it has upgraded its facilities and fleet to bolster its capabilities of littoral patrolling of the coast line.

Unquote.

 

[khanasifm]

http://www.janes.com/article/71371/pakistan-s-1-500-tonne-mpv-fitting-out-at-shipyard-in-guangzhou

 

[syed_yusuf]

When do we expect 1500 ton ship to be delivered