More than 300 PAF Mirages & F-7s will be retired in future. A huge market indeed.

[notorious_eagle]

I mean I am astonished , the way of thinking you just written in your post ?
Even if F-16s were god send air fighter jets , even then we need to look beyound it some day at some point ?
Their own air force is changing it , & why not we should all stop on JF- 17 & just only have F-16S IN OUR FORCE ?
Why we need to develop thunders ?
I mean , no air force , decides on infrastructures , & being afraid to be trained on new tech platforms ?
Even though , its an advantage but to a certain limit ?
New tech - air fighter s are way ahead of the dam F-16s & our enemy has lots in numbers ?
Wasn't expecting the ,decade old rehotic that F-16s are only the best ever air fighters built in the world ?
I can't expect that our air force pilots are afraid , shaky , or tired to train on other high tech air fighters in the world .
Sorry friend , I cant find any logic , in a sanction **** , pentagon kill switch equipped pice of shyt , been used to fool common Pakistanis ?

We are stuck with F16s as it was a great plane,it is a good plane still,we do not have too many options and lastly F16 is PAFs comfort zone. PAF needs to come out of the box

Its a good stop gap measure. PAF's existing infrastructure can support around 100 F16's, and this is what appears to be the goal to reach that sanctioned strength and acquire additional Airframes without spending too much out of the pocket.

If you read some of the statements of our Senior Air Force Officers and the COAS, they are monitoring the 5th Generation Aircraft Solution that China is developing. You have to keep in mind, PAF has to work miracles to make things happen with such a small budget. Second hand MLUed F16's make for impressive additions to our current fleet with the biggest bang for the buck. As of now, PAF does not has the budget to acquire a new platform for the foreseeable future.

 

[black-hawk_101]

PAF dream combat aircrafts inventory by 2020 should be:
JF-17 (Block 1 to 4) = 216 (12 Squadron)
F-16 = 90 (5 Squadron)
J-10 B/C = 72 (4 Squadron)
J-11 D or SU-35 = 72 ( 4 Squadron)

Total = 450 (25 Squadron)
By maintaining this incentory at least, PAF will be able to counter IAF by all means InshAllah because of the skilled pilots & maintaining all 4 plus generation aircrafts. This is a feasible & practical approach to acquire these aircrafts.

at max. 150 JF-17s. For J-10, J-11 and SU-35s there is no chance.

 

[A2Z]

Wasn't expecting the ,decade old rehotic that F-16s are only the best ever air fighters built in the world ?
I can't expect that our air force pilots are afraid , shaky , or tired to train on other high tech air fighters in the world .
Sorry friend , I cant find any logic , in a sanction **** , pentagon kill switch equipped pice of shyt , been used to fool common Pakistanis ?

Well I know you have all the reasons to hate the decade old "pice of shyt" but there is a reason that even today it is the bench mark against which every aircraft is measured. Moreover we still don't know whether we are buying the F-16 from USA or not. The last F-16 we purchased were from Jordan and those were their block 15 ADF at fraction of the price. When PAF purchased blk 52/52 back in 2000s the US was expecting an order of around 72 jets but PAF reduced it to half and from that half they only bought 18.

The reason why we see PAF always wanting F-16 is that it is the best thing we can get our hands on while staying in the budget (of course here I mean 2nd hand F-16 PAF is eyeing). If PAF wants, and I know that we can easily go for 5-6 sqdrns of J-10 or may be EF but this would empty your pockets and then, we'll be still paying for the jets while IAF would be ready with FGFA. Then it would be people like you and me who would be saying now things wont work with just J-10 now we need a 5th gen fighter.

A couple of years back I was reading an article on an interview with ACM and he was clear that at the moment 5th generation jet is what PAF is looking for because airforce is satisfied with JF-17 and F-16 combo and it would be waste time and money if we look for another 4.5 gen platform. And I am sure you must be knowing that PAF plans to take JF-17 to the 4.5 gen level?

 

[araz]

What if i told you that PAF pilots have actually flown those birds. As far as Russian sensitivities are concerned, we all know how well the PLAF took them into consideration by producing this very aircraft even though they were only licensed to produce the SU27. Despite Russian threats to take the Chinese to court, PLAF went forward with its modernization plan. According to the PLAF, J11 is a complete Chinese product, thus does not fall under Russian restrictions unlike the SU27.

The word to consider here is ENGINE. As long as China is dependant kn the red bear for engines we are not going to see much more independance. WS10 is coming on line but needs another 5 yrs fo achieve maturity. This is where the problem lies.
As to Ronald Afzal he has flown in the back seat of a J11. This is what we get from official sources. Till we get confirmation this is how it remains. Hope you understand.
A

 

[silent hawk]

What if i told you that PAF pilots have actually flown those birds. As far as Russian sensitivities are concerned, we all know how well the PLAF took them into consideration by producing this very aircraft even though they were only licensed to produce the SU27. Despite Russian threats to take the Chinese to court, PLAF went forward with its modernization plan. According to the PLAF, J11 is a complete Chinese product, thus does not fall under Russian restrictions unlike the SU27.

AoA
That is good news. Is the same true for the J-16?
Regards

 

[batmannow]

Well I know you have all the reasons to hate the decade old "pice of shyt" but there is a reason that even today it is the bench mark against which every aircraft is measured. Moreover we still don't know whether we are buying the F-16 from USA or not. The last F-16 we purchased were from Jordan and those were their block 15 ADF at fraction of the price. When PAF purchased blk 52/52 back in 2000s the US was expecting an order of around 72 jets but PAF reduced it to half and from that half they only bought 18.

The reason why we see PAF always wanting F-16 is that it is the best thing we can get our hands on while staying in the budget (of course here I mean 2nd hand F-16 PAF is eyeing). If PAF wants, and I know that we can easily go for 5-6 sqdrns of J-10 or may be EF but this would empty your pockets and then, we'll be still paying for the jets while IAF would be ready with FGFA. Then it would be people like you and me who would be saying now things wont work with just J-10 now we need a 5th gen fighter.

A couple of years back I was reading an article on an interview with ACM and he was clear that at the moment 5th generation jet is what PAF is looking for because airforce is satisfied with JF-17 and F-16 combo and it would be waste time and money if we look for another 4.5 gen platform. And I am sure you must be knowing that PAF plans to take JF-17 to the 4.5 gen level?

Mr , what you think ?
we don't know what are the dam deals IAF has in its pipeline ?
F-16s we have enough of them , as I told that its not about how great machine it is ?
Its about , will it can fly in the middle of a war like kargill , so your story & all the great dfenations ends with the fact that , with the kill switches of pentagon inside it , its just a dead horse , a porus elephant ?
Nothing else or nothing more ?
If we can't find any god dammed machine to fly , then better to invest the same amount on our thunders , it will be more safe investment for us in the future .

 

[A2Z]

we don't know what are the dam deals IAF has in its pipeline ?

I think you didn't get the point I had there. PAF just not have to tackle present threats but plan on how to deal with the ones we'll face in future. We all know that budget is something that always limits PAF's shopping. Our economy is improving and its time that we save money for future procurement.

Its about , will it can fly in the middle of a war like kargill , so your story & all the great dfenations ends with the fact that , with the kill switches of pentagon inside it , its just a dead horse , a porus elephant ?

Can't deny that F-16 don't come with strings attached but there is still a lot more than just facing IAF those jets do for us. Its an open secret that success of Zarb-e-Azb has been a result of a combined efforts of both our airforce and army. And when we talk about airstrikes F-16s are at the top causing most militant casualties and destroying their hideouts.
Despite of all the strings PAF still shows faith in the platform and are focused on reaching the strength that was originally planned, 5 squadrons.

If we can't find any god dammed machine to fly , then better to invest the same amount on our thunders , it will be more safe investment for us in the future .

That's what has been happening isn't it? Thunder program has received a massive investment in past decade. The hard work of our engineers have bought the platform to the level that it now accompanies F-16s in Zarb-e-Azb. Now that we are talking about investments in our domestic products I think Burraq has been a success as well? Now that we have conducted the first unmanned kill and that too during night. We have become the 4th nation to have an unmanned kill.

 

[notorious_eagle]

AoA
That is good news. Is the same true for the J-16?
Regards

It appears so, its using all Chinese components and features so it would be right to conclude that the Chinese consider it a domestic product.

 

[batmannow]

I think you didn't get the point I had there. PAF just not have to tackle present threats but plan on how to deal with the ones we'll face in future. We all know that budget is something that always limits PAF's shopping. Our economy is improving and its time that we save money for future procurement.

Can't deny that F-16 don't come with strings attached but there is still a lot more than just facing IAF those jets do for us. Its an open secret that success of Zarb-e-Azb has been a result of a combined efforts of both our airforce and army. And when we talk about airstrikes F-16s are at the top causing most militant casualties and destroying their hideouts.
Despite of all the strings PAF still shows faith in the platform and are focused on reaching the strength that was originally planned, 5 squadrons.

That's what has been happening isn't it? Thunder program has received a massive investment in past decade. The hard work of our engineers have bought the platform to the level that it now accompanies F-16s in Zarb-e-Azb. Now that we are talking about investments in our domestic products I think Burraq has been a success as well? Now that we have conducted the first unmanned kill and that too during night. We have become the 4th nation to have an unmanned kill.

If I take your word , then hope fully after full 5 sqdrns no more , string attached F-16s ? Right !
I think , zarb e azab could be the training grounds for thunders ?
As they need to do all that ?

 

[A2Z]

If I take your word , then hope fully after full 5 sqdrns no more , string attached F-16s ? Right !
I think , zarb e azab could be the training grounds for thunders ?
As they need to do all that ?

As far as my limited knowledge is concerned since day 1 PAF has not wanted more than 5-6 squadrons (100-120 jets). Zarb-e-Azb has been a blessing in disguise for our armed forces. Though it has costed us in billions but on the brighter side as a result we not only got rid of TTP scums but at the moment our army and airforce has become probably the most battle hardened forces in Asia.
And as far as testing and training is concerned not only we have tested thunders but our survailance and combat UAVs, Tanks, etc. as well. Remember the 3 Z-10 China gave us as a gift? The inside word is that it was for testing purpose they wanted us to use them in Waziristan and tell how well it performs.

 

[majid mehmood]

As if you got any point.... Yeah it would be very hard to detect aircraft from 600-700km distance.... But how come a tiny Jet detect the ship from 600km distance... How can you get lock? Are you aware those AC consists more than 1 Sq jets.... All you are assuming... As jet flowing (as per you) through sea it can't be detected.... You simply thrashed Coastal Radar stations etc... If you can reach us that safe... I would call govt to scrap our armed forces .. ... You need come across IN and then IAF to reach Mumbai... You said Mumbai airspace previously.. Now you are taking U turn...

if u read my previous post i wrote that su 35 will enter mumbai not jf 17
jf 17 will fire from 600-700 km far from mumbai which will be hard to detect jf 17

u are telling me that a tiny jet will not detect ship
AGAIN if u read my post i told awacs are there to help them
even coastal radars are not powerful to detect a small aircraft

how??

it would be expensive as operating a twin engine plane
fuel cost and consumption
plus we have buy missile from russia which would add cost as paf have only Chinese and american missile so su 35 will be only or mostly equipped with russian missiles

 

[danger007]

if u read my previous post i wrote that su 35 will enter mumbai not jf 17
jf 17 will fire from 600-700 km far from mumbai which will be hard to detect jf 17

u are telling me that a tiny jet will not detect ship
AGAIN if u read my post i told awacs are there to help them
even coastal radars are not powerful to detect a small aircraft


it would be expensive as operating a twin engine plane
fuel cost and consumption
plus we have buy missile from russia which would add cost as paf have only Chinese and american missile so su 35 will be only or mostly equipped with russian missiles

first try to improve your knowledge before you talk something like this... secondly what you wanted to target military installation or civilian areas.... even if you are going to use stand off missiles like as you said... they have to come across IN ships which consists SAM.. detection of jet doesn't based on it's size.. but the degree of stealth characteristics and Radar absorbing coating used in Jet... if you can blow up an city just like that... IAF Mki can make circles around pak without entering into your airspace.. fire stand off missiles as you mentioned... when you are carrying external load like stand off missiles.. your jet RCS will be high enough.. you are not going to use internal bays.. and again improve your knowledge... don't make fool your self with stupid logic and theories... war theatre is completely different than what you are thinking...

 

[majid mehmood]

first try to improve your knowledge before you talk something like this... secondly what you wanted to target military installation or civilian areas.... even if you are going to use stand off missiles like as you said... they have to come across IN ships which consists SAM.. detection of jet doesn't based on it's size.. but the degree of stealth characteristics and Radar absorbing coating used in Jet... if you can blow up an city just like that... IAF Mki can make circles around pak without entering into your airspace.. fire stand off missiles as you mentioned... when you are carrying external load like stand off missiles.. your jet RCS will be high enough.. you are not going to use internal bays.. and again improve your knowledge... don't make fool your self with stupid logic and theories... war theatre is completely different than what you are thinking...

of course military installations
how it can be high enough u nut when raad is stealth cruise missile or even tomahawk missile which is non steath has 0.5-1m2 rcs than forget about raad or yj 12 they has much lighter weight so there rcs would be very less so by adding 2 or 3 cruise yj 12 co develop type missile it rcs might only increase 1 m2

 

[MastanKhan]

if u read my previous post i wrote that su 35 will enter mumbai not jf 17
jf 17 will fire from 600-700 km far from mumbai which will be hard to detect jf 17

u are telling me that a tiny jet will not detect ship
AGAIN if u read my post i told awacs are there to help them
even coastal radars are not powerful to detect a small aircraft


it would be expensive as operating a twin engine plane
fuel cost and consumption
plus we have buy missile from russia which would add cost as paf have only Chinese and american missile so su 35 will be only or mostly equipped with russian missiles

Hi,

It does not work that way----. JF 17 basically cannot target Mumbai---and that too with only 1 ALCM. If there is an air cversion and if it can carry a Bubur cruise missile----it can launch from that distance----but not other alcm's.

Only one YJ12 can be carried on the JF 17 and that also has a range of 250 km----.

Did you ever got beat up in school---or did anyone ever threaten you in school or did you ever beat up someone at school-----and what did you do.

 

[danger007]

Hi,

It does not work that way----. JF 17 basically cannot target Mumbai---and that too with only 1 ALCM. If there is an air cversion and if it can carry a Bubur cruise missile----it can launch from that distance----but not other alcm's.

Only one YJ12 can be carried on the JF 17 and that also has a range of 250 km----.

Did you ever got beat up in school---or did anyone ever threaten you in school or did you ever beat up someone at school-----and what did you do.

he is just curious to express his strategy sir jee...

of course military installations
how it can be high enough u nut when raad is stealth cruise missile or even tomahawk missile which is non steath has 0.5-1m2 rcs than forget about raad or yj 12 they has much lighter weight so there rcs would be very less so by adding 2 or 3 cruise yj 12 co develop type missile it rcs might only increase 1 m2

first improve your knowledge... can you please elaborate... you want to say tomahawk is non stealth ... and YJ 12 is stealth.. h so it is invincible.... LOLz... terrain hugging missile or sea skimming missiles are hard to detect at the cost of it's range... clean RCS is different to that loaded.... in one post you said over the Mumbai airspace, in other you said firing stand off missiles.. yet again you are talking about military installations... what type of military installation you want to target in Mumbai? Naval? or Army or Air force? you are not talking about 5th gen jet to be invincible to the Radar.. you are assuming small aircraft will be invincible to the Radar... to reach Mumbai that missile or Jet come across Indian Navy...