More LCA Tejas For The IAF: $5.2 Billion Deal For Mark 1A Variant To Be Signed By December,

[Feraro]

Hero, tomorrow when you build it entirely then it is called indegineously (even though you took help of China to build JF17)

Vanakkam.
I guess most Indian members feel unfairly treated here. Because of rampant trolling.
I am also from Chennai.

 

[airomerix]

What is interesting is, IAF spent years negotiating the price that was quoted at Rs.50,000 cr to Rs. 39,000 cr. In the end they're paying Rs.48,000 cr that equates to $80 million per aircraft. Whats also interesting is the reduction in capex of IAF for 2020-2021. Factoring in the HAL's track record, the project timeline will be possibly pushed further by at least 3 years, considering the budget cuts and plans for 'two front war' by Bipin, where he is planning on raising dedicated new divisions on the northern front.

I sense chest thumping.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

One vital difference between the two aircraft is that the systems that we have sourced from Israel, US, France etc are generally accepted to be better than equivalent Chinese components. So we are producing an aircraft with better systems. I wish to remind you that China requested and received know how from Israel on their Lavi fighter. Obviously if they did not feel that the Israelis had superior technology they would never have asked Israel for help. Similarly they wanted to buy Israeli Phalcon AWACS, a deal which Washington vetoed. I hope you don't deny these transactions to score a petty point. Please research the truth of my assertions.

proof? there is documented proof that the J-10 was developed from the J-9 tech demonstrator.

In addition there is proof that there is no possible design connection between Lavi and J-10: Lavi has a rounded inlet, which has vastly different aerodynamics than the rectangular J-10 inlet. In addition the J-10 is 20% heavier than the Lavi, 20% faster and has a different weight distribution.

If just being visually similar is enough, then anyone can build a Boeing 737. But they can't because every part of it is finely tuned to within single % levels. 20% change is gigantic to a plane.

China is also one of the most innovative countries in patents per capita (a measure that India doesn't even show up on because it is so far behind), so it doesn' t even make sense that China needs a fighter from someone else.

 

[Feraro]

proof? there is documented proof that the J-10 was developed from the J-9 tech demonstrator.

In addition there is proof that there is no possible design connection between Lavi and J-10: Lavi has a rounded inlet, which has vastly different aerodynamics than the rectangular J-10 inlet. In addition the J-10 is 20% heavier than the Lavi, 20% faster and has a different weight distribution.

If just being visually similar is enough, then anyone can build a Boeing 737. But they can't because every part of it is finely tuned to within single % levels. 20% change is gigantic to a plane.

China is also one of the most innovative countries in patents per capita (a measure that India doesn't even show up on because it is so far behind), so it doesn' t even make sense that China needs a fighter from someone else.

I think you are digressing. We are here to discuss the Tejas.
Comparison between the Lavi and the J10 is another matter.
But truth is the Chinese and the Israelis did have some sort of collaboration in the past.
Let's leave it at that.

 

[pothead]

Oh dear almighty Bhagavan.

Do few "geniuses" here really think there is an aircraft in the world with 100% indigenization?

May be these "geniuses" can provide examples.

 

[FairAndUnbiased]

I think you are digressing. We are here to discuss the Tejas.
Comparison between the Lavi and the J10 is another matter.
But truth is the Chinese and the Israelis did have some sort of collaboration in the past.
Let's leave it at that.

The problem with Tejas is that it has too many suppliers and it doesn't have a clear role.

Low cost single engine fighter that's fast to build? Costs more than F-16 and J-10, has multiple foreign suppliers. In a hot war you can't build it fast due to long shipping time and high coordination requirements. End result: logistical nightmare

Agile dogfighter? Poor 6 oclock visibility due to the canopy being set too low in the airframe.

BVR? Worse than Su-30 in every way: low range, small nose for radar, low payload (half that of the F-16 or J-10).

As far as I can see, the sole selling point of the Tejas is that it is assembled in India. It literally does not have an advantage in any other way over any other existing aircraft available to India.

 

[White and Green with M/S]

Nowadays most combat aircraft rely on components and systems supply from multiple vendors spread across the world. We have as a temporary measure sourced certain systems and sub systems from countries like the US, Israel etc. This is till we manage to indigenise the production of these items.

Yes both the Tejas and the JF17 have many parts from suppliers outside. Though I will take the liberty of stating that there are far more Indian manufactured components in the Tejas than there are Pakistan manufactured components in the JF17.

I know you will immediately contest this. Maybe to support your view you can list out the Pakistan made components of the JF17 and the list can be compared to the list of Indian made components in the Tejas.

One vital difference between the two aircraft is that the systems that we have sourced from Israel, US, France etc are generally accepted to be better than equivalent Chinese components. So we are producing an aircraft with better systems. I wish to remind you that China requested and received know how from Israel on their Lavi fighter. Obviously if they did not feel that the Israelis had superior technology they would never have asked Israel for help. Similarly they wanted to buy Israeli Phalcon AWACS, a deal which Washington vetoed. I hope you don't deny these transactions to score a petty point. Please research the truth of my assertions.

Lastly I don't expect India to be embargoed by the suppliers of the said components for the Tejas. We have extremely friendly relations with Israel, France and the US. And anyway we are progressively indigenising the imported components. Example is the Uttam AESA radar which will replace the Israeli Elta 2052 radar. The Uttam AESA radar is already installed in an Lsp Tejas aircraft and has successfully passed various air to air operating modes.

its not true about combat aircraft but airliners follows that traits, yes few exception and example are there look dude, all 5th gen jets projects that currently in the progress from third world countries and some first world countries like South Korea/India/Turkey/China/Russia/Japan./Indonesia are going through help of US/China/EU because these countries are not able to develop some or most of technologies necessary to develop 5th gen jets and as well as to reduce the project cost, prime example of that F-35 project but this not for US can't build F-35 from it own but 2 reduce project cost

 

[Vanamali]

Vanakkam.
I guess most Indian members feel unfairly treated here. Because of rampant trolling.
I am also from Chennai.

That is known fact and live with it... Enjoy the comedy....

 

[Deino]

Wonderful... finally this was cleared. First few MK1A's are already on the production floor and may be ready in no time. With HAL ramping up the production rate it will be much quicker.

But the game changer will be AMCA for me.... hope we hear some good news on that front.

Really ,,, so sorry, in case I missed it, but when can we realistically expect to see the first Mk.1A and even more the first Mk.2?

 

[drumstick]

Really ,,, so sorry, in case I missed it, but when can we realistically expect to see the first Mk.1A and even more the first Mk.2?

good that you are sorry for missing such an important event.

deliveries are expected from 18th month... first MK2 stay tunes on this forum...

 

[TheSnakeEatingMarkhur]

Janab, I am sure you are not a racist who hates all Indians.
Let us try to have a civil discussion based on reason and merits.

The recent conflict with China has shaken up the bureaucracy in India.
Defence is being taken more seriously. I am optimistic.

I guarantee you that you will hear more defence acquisition news coming from India.

Indians are not a race so hating em wouldnt make it a case of racism... but I dont hate all indians I only hate "andhbhakts"

 

[Deino]

good that you are sorry for missing such an important event.

deliveries are expected from 18th month... first MK2 stay tunes on this forum...

Pardon ... 18th month means what? The 18th month that does not exist, so in fact never?
Or the 18th of a certain month?

 

[Suriya]

Mk.1A

 

[drumstick]

Pardon ... 18th month means what? The 18th month that does not exist, so in fact never?
Or the 18th of a certain month?

start counting from 1 ... eventually you will reach 18

 

[Dash]

MK1A

Supa Dupa plane that has not left drawing board

JF-17

135 produced so far.

In service with 9 PAF squadrons
Nigerian Air Force
Myanmar Air Force
Possible Azeri Air Force

Launched strikes against Indian Targets

Shot down Iranian drone

Maybe you chaps should celebrate when/if the damn thing flies!?


So you never wanted MIG-29? Or the engines that produce 50% reliability on SU-30MKI and 30% reliability on MIG-29K?

we had no option then to counter your F 16s and for the navy it came as a package