Misleading reports related to IAF capability and Pakistani media bravado

[salarsikander]

exactly could not agree more. But this individualism will still remain as it is since the education system from where they all come is based on division and individualism. Actually the education system in place in pakistan is the same Lord McAulay......

This was designed to basically keep a Nation slave.

Hi,

Excellent post that is, and we still are today.

Wannabeees and overseas Pakistanis with foreign Passports are worst culprits

 

[ziaulislam]

Indian reports mostly say that she will have trouble facing Pakistan in case of combine Chinese Pakistan threat.
its true that IAF is far superior than PAF but it cannot match the PLAAF in its current form and gap is rapidly increasing.
so in that perspective its true.

but we all know that that would not happen. Its extremely unlikely that india wil face both china and Pakistan at the same time. unless they start it them selves.

 

[janon]

Indian reports mostly say that she will have trouble facing Pakistan in case of combine Chinese Pakistan threat.
its true that IAF is far superior than PAF but it cannot match the PLAAF in its current form and gap is rapidly increasing.
so in that perspective its true.

but we all know that that would not happen. Its extremely unlikely that india wil face both china and Pakistan at the same time. unless they start it them selves.

The Indian military lives by "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst". Currently the worst imaginable scenario is a two front war with China and Pak attacking us together. The chance for that happening is very close to zero, but preparing for that eventuality will make us feel secure. And such feelings and perceptions matter in diplomacy and international relations - if we know that militarily our position is secure, it will be reflected in the decisions made on the negotiating table.

I disagree with your last line. There is another possibility which, although unlikely, is more probable than India starting a two front war - India and China going to war against each other, and Pakistan using the opportunity to try and take Kashmir from India. But then again, I really don't see why India and China would go to war - there is nothing at stake for both countries to make a war worthwhile.

 

[SecularNationalist]

Did China cut off the relations with USA?
did China openly declared USA as enemy and Asian nations should cutoff relations with west and form a block?

If yes then your statement is correct!

BTW Pakistan is dependent on US aid and seek support of USA. It is that USA toned down the relations with Pakistan in some fields not the other way around.

Tomorrow if USA wants to upgrade ties with Pakistan most of you people cheer, the same guys who are advocating India against India US relations!

Look in the 21st century cutting off ties completely is impossible because of the global free market economy and international trade.China is just using them and at the same restricting them from gaining any power in the region but india US upcoming alliance is for the dirty purposes like giving Pakistan and china a tough time and causing further instability in the region.
Wrong the whole world knows the so called aid is the money which is for their forces fighting in Afghanistan.We are only dependent on US military hardware but now with a closer ties with china and russia we are almost no longer dependent.But India on the other hand really get a charity from UK every year
And finally no i guess no leader in pakistan in his sane mind will upgrade relations with USA again.We have learned a very hard lesson.USA has interests no friends .

 

[MilSpec]

Preparing for a two front war should absolutely be the aim for Indian Forces, It mitigates individual threats completely if we are prepared for twice the threat perception.

 

[black-hawk_101]

I am sure that in future PAC will be making more JF-17s for PAF and export to countries like Argentina and Nigeria.

 

[Donatello]

Preparing for a two front war should absolutely be the aim for Indian Forces, It mitigates individual threats completely if we are prepared for twice the threat perception.

More like limited two front war. I don't know how you are going to manage the Chinese threat unless you can match them 1 on 1 in quality and quantity.

 

[MilSpec]

More like limited two front war. I don't know how you are going to manage the Chinese threat unless you can match them 1 on 1 in quality and quantity.

thats the deal, we are way way behind the chinese and need to catch up, we need to focus on our economy and translate that growth into good indigenous military industrial complex. We just dont need to match the chinese 1 one 1 but china and pakistan combined one on one.I.e. modernisation of army, and twice the growth in Navy, Air force and SFC units.

 

[ziaulislam]

The Indian military lives by "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst". Currently the worst imaginable scenario is a two front war with China and Pak attacking us together. The chance for that happening is very close to zero, but preparing for that eventuality will make us feel secure. And such feelings and perceptions matter in diplomacy and international relations - if we know that militarily our position is secure, it will be reflected in the decisions made on the negotiating table.

I disagree with your last line. There is another possibility which, although unlikely, is more probable than India starting a two front war - India and China going to war against each other, and Pakistan using the opportunity to try and take Kashmir from India. But then again, I really don't see why India and China would go to war - there is nothing at stake for both countries to make a war worthwhile.

i know that you have always been told that we are the sinster guys here but i dont think pakistan will or can go to war with such a elephant. I give you the example of china-india war in 60s. when pakistan army did nothing even though it had the opportunity to do so. you can read the details in a popular biography of a pakistani bureaucrat.
before you start quoting 1965, i can assure mere a few boarder skirmishes cannot be regarded as a full war, if you that take into account there would hav been a war every second year. The full fledge war in 1965 was initiated by india.

regardlessly, india has more issues with china but doesnt has enough public support to openly come out with it, so they use the boggy man pakistan.

reverse the situation, and i can assure you india will do it, i.e take the opportunity of Pakistan weakness as it has done before in 1971

 

[Last Samuri]

Future Indian military power could be huge.

This is based on a gdp that will grow to be the third or fourth largest in the world by 2030.

This scenario which Pakistanis don't discuss to openly is a reality that will occur by the next 15 years.

The Indians may well achieve their stated objective of three carrier battle groups with over 120 fighters backed by a nuclear sub fleet of arihants and two dozen stealth destroyers and frigates of indengious technology like kolkata and shivilks.

The air force aim of 42,sqds would see iaf field over 800 combat planes. Easily the third most powerful in the world and will include Fgfa rafale tejss and amca.

If this does happen the Indian s could on paper finish a indo pak war very quickly to the point making the pak navy and airforce semi redundant in 72,hours.

This would then allow India to defend against China with full concentration.

Today it's impossible but by 2030 expect Indian military and industrial power will be vast compared today.

 

[janon]

The full fledge war in 1965 was initiated by india.

No dear, the 1965 war was started by Pakistan's 'Operation Gibraltar'.

You need to bear in mind that it's Pakistani people who have a desire to change the status quo, ie to take Indian Kashmir. Indians are happy to let Pakistan keep the part of Kashmir it controls. Only the side that wants to change the status quo would initiate war.

reverse the situation, and i can assure you india will do it, i.e take the opportunity of Pakistan weakness as it has done before in 1971

Reverse which situation? Presently India is a lot stronger than Pakistan, but you don't see India trying to start a war. I'm pretty sure that if the situation was reversed, ie if Pakistan had an upper hand (either because it somehow grew militarily more powerful, or because India was at war with China), then it would be Pakistan that initiates war, for the reason stated above - Pakistan wants to change the status quo more than India does.

The 1971 example is not fully appropriate - it's not like India saw Pakistan in civil war and then decided to take advantage. India had a role in training insurgents and raising Mukti Bahini batalions, which is why finally Pakistan openly attacked India. At that time we had reason to wage such a war, because we had a lot to achieve. Namely, reducing the number of hostile fronts from two to one. If Pakistan was united today, it would be militarily nearly twoce as powerful, and it would be straddling India on both sides. Even without China, we would be fighting a two front war. It made eminent sense for us to split Pakistan and make the east friendly to us.

But today there is no reason for us to start a full scale war - in fact, it is better for India that a reasonably strong Pakistan exists, because it acts as a buffer between us and all the mess that exists on western Pakistan and beyond. The last thing we need is all the conflicts in the tribal areas of Pak and Afgh and the middle east to affect us.

The air force aim of 42,sqds would see iaf field over 800 combat planes. Easily the third most powerful in the world and will include Fgfa rafale tejss and amca.

At least the USAF, RuAF and PLAAF would be stronger, not to mention the USN's air wing. So 4th most powerful at best.

 

[Abingdonboy]

More like limited two front war. I don't know how you are going to manage the Chinese threat unless you can match them 1 on 1 in quality and quantity

India can do it by using quality to level the field somewhat and then in the long term add quantity to the mix as the economic gap closes.

At least the USAF, RuAF and PLAAF would be stronger, not to mention the USN's air wing. So 4th most powerful at best.

RuAF? I don't think so. Their economy is in decline, India will overtake them within a decade and the IAF will be superior to the RuAF by 2030 almost certainly.

 

[ziaulislam]

No dear, the 1965 war was started by Pakistan's 'Operation Gibraltar'.

You need to bear in mind that it's Pakistani people who have a desire to change the status quo, ie to take Indian Kashmir. Indians are happy to let Pakistan keep the part of Kashmir it controls. Only the side that wants to change the status quo would initiate war.


Reverse which situation? Presently India is a lot stronger than Pakistan, but you don't see India trying to start a war. I'm pretty sure that if the situation was reversed, ie if Pakistan had an upper hand (either because it somehow grew militarily more powerful, or because India was at war with China), then it would be Pakistan that initiates war, for the reason stated above - Pakistan wants to change the status quo more than India does.

The 1971 example is not fully appropriate - it's not like India saw Pakistan in civil war and then decided to take advantage. India had a role in training insurgents and raising Mukti Bahini batalions, which is why finally Pakistan openly attacked India. At that time we had reason to wage such a war, because we had a lot to achieve. Namely, reducing the number of hostile fronts from two to one. If Pakistan was united today, it would be militarily nearly twoce as powerful, and it would be straddling India on both sides. Even without China, we would be fighting a two front war. It made eminent sense for us to split Pakistan and make the east friendly to us.

But today there is no reason for us to start a full scale war - in fact, it is better for India that a reasonably strong Pakistan exists, because it acts as a buffer between us and all the mess that exists on western Pakistan and beyond. The last thing we need is all the conflicts in the tribal areas of Pak and Afgh and the middle east to affect us.


At least the USAF, RuAF and PLAAF would be stronger, not to mention the USN's air wing. So 4th most powerful at best.

Pakistan were not idiots to attack india that never happened, honestly i am hearing this first time even from an Indian.
using common folk talk i surprising, i can argue by that logic that alot of indians talk of taking over all Pakistan and unifying india!. officially we never tried and even return kashmir parts in 1965 as we knew we were vulnerable in now Bangladesh (honestly look at the map).

you asked why today will india attack.?
well Kashmir is the answer. if Kashmir problem is solved than i will agree that india has no reason.
in my opinion the real reason why Bhutto went for nuke weapons was 1971 incident, so in reality india did created a nuclear headache for her self without achieving any meaningful benefit for herself in 1971.

 

[Kaniska]

Indian media is purely a commercial entities..So most of time Media publishes something that people would like hear..and in this process, truth is also hidden...So your post is right to some extent about media but that does not mean Indian people does not really understand what is the reality!!!

Misleading reports related to IAF capability and Pakistani media bravado
Manticore

Recently a lot of reports are surfacing from India regarding its air force's acquisition problems. The Indian media is patriotic, intelligent and far sighted enough to provide its people with a false sense of insecurity so as to stress upon the government to provide necessary funds for IAF for modernization.

The Indian media conveniently leaves a lot of stats out of the report whereby giving a very gloomy and dismal outlook of the IAF's capabilities. Pakistan's media is stupid enough to take that report on face value and starts chest thumping thus playing its part in consolidating indian government's pledge for further hike in defence budget.

Just by glancing on the first page of the airforce subforum, we have two baseless threads.
''Pakistan Air Force has an edge over Indian Air Force: Indian Parliamentary panel''
''Indian Air Force faces risk as PAK, China modernise airforce: report''
''India's ailing air force at risk in tough neighborhood''


Below is a graph showing different generations of aircrafts in PAF inventory. The BVR capable fighters would be the only single engine 4/4.5 generation fighter which constitutes a little over 25% of the entire fleet!

As most of PAF's fighters are over 20 years old, their crash rates are gradually
taking their toll on paf fighter aircraft numbers. A lot of fighter pilots have lost
their lives because of the age of the aircraft fleet.

The production rate of the 4rth generation bvr capable JF-17 fighter has been alarmingly slow and is a matter of great concern for the people.These aircrafts are not the cutting edge of technology, however they allow paf to retire old 2nd generation fighters and thus save the lives of its young pilots both in war and peace.

Aircraft enthusiasts also recall the Mirage 2000 saga where a very potent aircraft was not inducted due to unknown reasons. The acquisition of 4.5 generation J-10 aircraft also seems to be put on the back burner. One can only hope that the economical situation in Pakistan becomes better so we can see induction of new platforms, more F-16s and long range surface to air missiles.

The Indian 4.5 generation Su 30MKI with a huge 1500Km combat radius is capable of deep strikes in Pakistan. It is augmented with Mig29 and Mirage2000 both of which are also latest bvr capable fighters.These make over 300 bvr capable fighters not to mention the latest upgrades on their large fleet of 3rd generation fighters. None of the PAF aircrafts match the 200 su30 mki in their range and weapons payload capacity.

Even after the above quantitative and qualitative comparison, IAF is planning
to further induct another 126+ 4.5 generation rafale fighters not to mention
5th generation fighters like pak-fa and fgfa which will skyrocket the qualitative and quantitative edge that India already possesses. Pakistan can not afford a complete generation gap in capability and might need to induct 5th generation fighters at the same pace as India as you cant bring a knife in a gun fight.That would translate into the chinese J31 induction in paf. It's cost and capability remains to be seen.The Indian Navy plans to establish three naval aircraft squadrons that will fly MiG-29K/KUB.

In the past 7 years, PAF has inducted AWACS, Air refuelers and BVR platforms which is a testament to the higher ups in PAF who have infused these much needed capabilities rather quickly. PAF has maintained it's high level of training. Now Pakistan is slowly increasing the number of BVR capable aircrafts with better avionics and standoff weapons. There is a speculation that JF-17 block2 would be a much more capable platform than blk1.

This is just a request by air force enthusiasts to the Pakistani media to not to propagate Indian reports / propaganda without doing some in depth research on the matter. PAF does not have qualitative and quantitative edge over IAF.

 

[wiseone2]

And finally no i guess no leader in pakistan in his sane mind will upgrade relations with USA again.We have learned a very hard lesson.USA has interests no friends .

Why do you think it is any different with China ?