Military's role in the identity of Pakistan

[Informant]

Aren't you the one always refering to Indians as "kalia"? Anyway I agree this thread should have been locked 54 pages ago.

YES ALL INDIAN are kalias

 

[jandk]

YES ALL INDIAN are kalias

Who's that chick in your avatar? 9.7985216667/10 Would fap again

 

[Informant]

Who's that chick in your avatar? 9.7985216667/10 Would fap again

Yo Momma.

Hahahah

 

[damdam786]

I personally saw a Pakistani jatt with 38% south Indian. One sample isn't enough to make a judgement on all the rajputs. Also Pakistani Jatts have significantly less Euro than the haryana and Jatt sikhs. There aren't enough Potohari rajput samples in the harappadna to make a judgement. Simple.

I don't know what you personally saw but there is not a single jatt with 38%. Check full list again

And there is forum where someone explain why Pakistani jats have more caucasian and less euro then sikh jats for exemple, something to do with calculator used because ASI is simlar. And there are not one but 25-30 jatt samples. Not a single one have anywhere near 38%. Overall average is between 28%-30%. The jatt muslim figures i posted was not a single sample but 5.

Punjabi/Kashmiri rajputs seem to have good 4-5% more ASI (Ancestral South Indian) ancestry then cental punjab. Again it proves its nothing to do with rajputs being ''race''.

 

[damdam786]

Dogras are an Indic people indeed but the term "Indic" is not a racial classification but a linguistic one. Dogras speak an Indo Aryan language therefore, we are Indo- Aryans or Indic - they are interchangeable.
Pashtuns are an Iranic people on a linguistic basis but they do not look identical to Iranians. Some do, just like some dogras, some kashmiris, some punjabis, etc.. I have seen many Pashtuns. They are not snow whites. Look at Dr. Shakeel Afridi. Are you telling me he wouldn't be able to pass as a Punjabi? He is dark. Lol. Are you telling me Malala wouldn't be able to pass as a Dogra, kashmiri or even punjabi? People like to give the example of Shahid Afridi. He too looks Indic. He can't pass in Iran. No one would look twice if he was in Jammu or Kashmir. If he told people he's dogra, no one would know otherwise.
Point is pashtun whiteness is highly exaggerated. Kashmiris are probably lighter than Pashtuns and we have lived alongside Kashmiris for centuries.

Pashtun stand out on average not because of skin colour but facial features. But its a fact they have higher % of fair skin people, when i say "fair" i meant someone with Nawaz Sharif skin for exemple. Standard skin tone in Punjab will be more like Shabaz Sharif. So skin colour doesn't matter much in these discussions. Kashmiris of valley are not lighter then Pashtuns on average. But dardic group in Gilget/Chitral are lighter on average.

Anyway i am saying average because there will be cases of people passing for one region to another. Thats normal after all these group live next to each other.

 

[SarthakGanguly]

This is the last time you'll call me sis.



Chote???
Are you elder to that Apso??

I heard ya white cockroach.
If I had a kukri knife then you would 've come to know how much I luv Pakistanis like you

No. I think I am younger

@Armstrong - We sell well. Baniya after all

 

[django]

Dogras are an Indic people indeed but the term "Indic" is not a racial classification but a linguistic one. Dogras speak an Indo Aryan language therefore, we are Indo- Aryans or Indic - they are interchangeable.
Pashtuns are an Iranic people on a linguistic basis but they do not look identical to Iranians. Some do, just like some dogras, some kashmiris, some punjabis, etc.. I have seen many Pashtuns. They are not snow whites. Look at Dr. Shakeel Afridi. Are you telling me he wouldn't be able to pass as a Punjabi? He is dark. Lol. Are you telling me Malala wouldn't be able to pass as a Dogra, kashmiri or even punjabi? People like to give the example of Shahid Afridi. He too looks Indic. He can't pass in Iran. No one would look twice if he was in Jammu or Kashmir. If he told people he's dogra, no one would know otherwise.
Point is pashtun whiteness is highly exaggerated. Kashmiris are probably lighter than Pashtuns and we have lived alongside Kashmiris for centuries.

Kashmiris are definetley not lighter than pashtuns or dardics, the lightest folks i have encountered in pak are dardics in the remote mountains of chitral, the only other folks who are comparable to them are pashtuns from the tora bora region who i assure you are the lightest of pashtuns, indeed many of them could pass off as balkan folks such as romanians( not gypsy) or albanians. You are talking about pashtuns being dark, well let me tell you this , a lot of people may be speak pashto and have names like khattak and yousafzai but a lot of them are fakes just like a lot of people in punjab who might be nhais move about 50 miles away and suddenly become janjuas or syeds get the drift dogra sahib, same in pashtun areas ,you may see some dark folks but they may well be nakli khans, remember peshawar was historically a hindu city ,pashtuns are a recent arrival, even in the mountainous areas a lot of the pashtuns are probably dardics such as kohistanis who have become pashtunised. REAL PASHTUNS ARE LIGHT THE DARK ONES HAVE EITHER SIGNIFICANT PUNJABI BLOOD OR THEY A DAMN FAKES.btw afridi is lighter than any of the folks you have put up

 

[jandk]

I don't know what you personally saw but there is not a single jatt with 38%. Check full list again

And there is forum where someone explain why Pakistani jats have more caucasian and less euro then sikh jats for exemple, something to do with calculator used because ASI is simlar. And there are not one but 25-30 jatt samples. Not a single one have anywhere near 38%. Overall average is between 28%-30%. The jatt muslim figures i posted was not a single sample but 5.

Punjabi/Kashmiri rajputs seem to have good 4-5% more ASI (Ancestral South Indian) ancestry then cental punjab. Again it proves its nothing to do with rajputs being ''race''.

I checked out those Harrappa Dna results. Also I went to the website and further looked at the entire spreadsheet. Some of the results seem pretty strange. Kashmiris have 30 % ASI while Haryanvi Jatts only have 27 % ASI. But everyone will agree that Kashmiris look more West Asian on average than a Haryanvi Jatt. There is something wrong here. How can a geographically isolated population (Kashmiris) have more ASI than Haryanvi Jatts? They had no participants from Jammu or Himachal. They do have participants from Potohar though. Not many participants from the Kashmir valley either strangely enough. The self proclaimed "kashmiris" are potoharis. They did not do a good job with the whole J&K area.

 

[damdam786]

I checked out those Harrappa Dna results. Also I went to the website and further looked at the entire spreadsheet. Some of the results seem pretty strange. Kashmiris have 30 % ASI while Haryanvi Jatts only have 27 % ASI. But everyone will agree that Kashmiris look more West Asian on average than a Haryanvi Jatt. There is something wrong here. How can a geographically isolated population (Kashmiris) have more ASI than Haryanvi Jatts? They had no participants from Jammu or Himachal. They do have participants from Potohar though. Not many participants from the Kashmir valley either strangely enough. The self proclaimed "kashmiris" are potoharis. They did not do a good job with the whole J&K area.

Not stange, there is not a single Kashmiri from valley there. All are punjabi/pahari rajputs. Anyway looks varry from region to region, im sure there is difference in looks between Punjabi jats and harynvi jats. But not as drastic as for exemple between Bengali rajputs and punjabi rajputs for exemple. The point was that rajputs are not one race or related. And Khatris are more closer to punjabi jats sikhs then Potohari rajas genetically.

Another interesting thing, there is PPP member with surname watto. He is from central punjab, around faisalabad. I googled and turned out watto are rajputs. So this ''raja'' surname is manly used by Potoharis/kashmiris.

People in one region will be more similar to each other then the other regions despite different biraderis. Because what ever people say, at the end of the day mixing has been happening between different biraderis.

Pashtuns have very distinct features in my opinion. Shahid Afridi looks like a typical Pashtun, especially in his young years. And yeah they come in all shades, but in general they are the lighter than Punjabis. Azad Kashmiris are as light skinned as Pashtuns but even in Azad Kashmir, it's easy to tell a Pashtun apart from a local most of the times. Pashtuns generally have distinct noses and eye shapes, which gives them away most of the time. Some Pashtuns that I have personally seen also looked a bit turkic. An example of turkic looking Pashtuns-as Salman Rashid(a famous columnist) pointed out- is Abdullah Mehsud. I don't see a reason why he won't pass in Uzbekistan, Turkemistan etc. Look him on google.

PS: Pure Baloch look quite similar to Pashtuns, albeit they are darker on average. Baloch, in my opinion, are the best looking race in Pakistan. No homo.

Azad Kashmiris are not as light as pashtuns, not even Kashmiris of valley are lighter then pashtuns on average.

 

[ghoul]

I don't know what you personally saw but there is not a single jatt with 38%. Check full list again

And there is forum where someone explain why Pakistani jats have more caucasian and less euro then sikh jats for exemple, something to do with calculator used because ASI is simlar. And there are not one but 25-30 jatt samples. Not a single one have anywhere near 38%. Overall average is between 28%-30%. The jatt muslim figures i posted was not a single sample but 5.

Punjabi/Kashmiri rajputs seem to have good 4-5% more ASI (Ancestral South Indian) ancestry then cental punjab. Again it proves its nothing to do with rajputs being ''race''.

Somewhat unusual results for my group [Archive] - Anthrogenica

Check this out. The Punjabi jatt has 37% south Indian. One sample never tells the genetics of a whole population, which is basic statistics. And Khatris are not related to Jatts. They even claim a rajput origin, like the "Khukrain" khatris claim to be descended from Khokhars. And you have clearly never been to Muzaffarabad and other Kashmiri areas. A lot of people have light eyes and skin colour, but they look different from Pashtuns. Even in Murree, the local people are as light as Pashtuns if not lighter. And I have seen plenty of pure Pashtuns who have a brown skin tone.

Also real Kashmiris are actually dardics. This guy below is an ethnic Kashmiri. His name is Abdul Mannan Butt and plays Imran Khan in "Kaptaan". He can easily pass in any western European country.

Also how it Shahid Afridi lighter skinned than the Punjabi Jatt politican that shan posted?:

 

[jandk]

Not stange, there is not a single Kashmiri from valley there. All are punjabi/pahari rajputs. Anyway looks varry from region to region, im sure there is difference in looks between Punjabi jats and harynvi jats. But not as drastic as for exemple between Bengali rajputs and punjabi rajputs for exemple. The point was that rajputs are not one race or related. And Khatris are more closer to punjabi jats sikhs then Potohari rajas genetically.

Another interesting thing, there is PPP member with surname watto. He is from central punjab, around faisalabad. I googled and turned out watto are rajputs. So this ''raja'' surname is manly used by Potoharis/kashmiris.

People in one region will be more similar to each other then the other regions despite different biraderis. Because what ever people say, at the end of the day mixing has been happening between different biraderis.



Azad Kashmiris are not as light as pashtuns, not even Kashmiris of valley are lighter then pashtuns on average.

That's what I said. Jats can be considered a monolith to a certain extent. They are more homogenous than most other communities in South Asia. Rajputs are all over the place and look very different depending on the region. Dogra Rajputs are probably the lightest Rajputs on average. Dogra Rajputs of Jammu have also been more prominent historically than other Rajputs int he northern regions such as Potohari Rajputs. The famous Sikh general Banda Singh Bahadur was a Dogra Rajput from Rajouri who converted to Sikhism. There are other examples like Zorawar Singh Kahluria and more.
Khatris are homogenous too I predicted that. There are a lot of Khatris in Jammu and they mostly have a similar look. But they are not known for having light skin in Jammu. They blend in well.
Yep, people in one region will be similar. Potoharis to me look different from Dogras even if they have similar last names as Dogra Rajputs. Probably because the Potohar is so far away.

 

[ghoul]

That's what I said. Jats can be considered a monolith to a certain extent. They are more homogenous than most other communities in South Asia. Rajputs are all over the place and look very different depending on the region. Dogra Rajputs are probably the lightest Rajputs on average. Dogra Rajputs of Jammu have also been more prominent historically than other Rajputs int he northern regions such as Potohari Rajputs. The famous Sikh general Banda Singh Bahadur was a Dogra Rajput from Rajouri who converted to Sikhism. There are other examples like Zorawar Singh Kahluria and more.
Khatris are homogenous too I predicted that. There are a lot of Khatris in Jammu and they mostly have a similar look. But they are not known for having light skin in Jammu. They blend in well.
Yep, people in one region will be similar. Potoharis to me look different from Dogras even if they have similar last names as Dogra Rajputs. Probably because the Potohar is so far away.

I disagree, there have been many well know Potohari Rajas. Sultan Sarang of Gakhars died fighting Sher Shah Suri. Ain-e-Akbari states that he inflicted heavy casualties on Afghans in Rohtas fort and also sold many captured Afghans into slavery. After his death, his brother Adam Khan took over and had many clashes with Islam Shah Suri. Finally Suris got defeated and in present times, Rohtas is a Gakhar village haha. Gakhars were renowned throughout the sub-continent to offer asylum to anyone in need.
Sultan Sarang's capital, Rawat fort:

There are many other famous Potoharis but I wont them name them as of yet.

Edit: Potohar has never been ruled and subdued throughout its history. During Delhi sultanate, it was called "hills of Jud" and was always unruly with Khokhars terrorizing the Delhi sultans. Many expeditions were sent by the Delhi sultanate, but they were all in vain. Balban was even afraid of going to far into Potohar as it was ruled by a chief called "Jaspal" and abandoned his campaign. The Potoharis even resisted Tamerlane and Genghis Khan, heck. Throughout the mughal era, Potohar remained a vassal state with its own currency. It was briefly taken over the Sikhs, but there was an active fight against the Sikhs throughout their reign.

 

[damdam786]

Check this out. The Punjabi jatt has 37% south Indian. One sample never tells the genetics of a whole population, which is basic statistics. And Khatris are not related to Jatts. They even claim a rajput origin, like the "Khukrain" khatris claim to be descended from Khokhars. And you have clearly never been to Muzaffarabad and other Kashmiri areas. A lot of people have light eyes and skin colour, but they look different from Pashtuns. Even in Murree, the local people are as light as Pashtuns if not lighter. And I have seen plenty of pure Pashtuns who have a brown skin tone.

Also real Kashmiris are actually dardics. This guy below is an ethnic Kashmiri. His name is Abdul Mannan Butt and plays Imran Khan in "Kaptaan". He can easily pass in any western European country.

Also how it Shahid Afridi lighter skinned than the Punjabi Jatt politican that shan posted?:

harappadna have jat 25-30 samples, after reading the link you posted. That guy is also on harappadna, his ASI is 34% and not 38%. His hap id is 374, his the highest ASI shifted jatt on the list. Nawaz Sharif and Shabaz Sharif are dardic while one brother have fair skin, the other have more standard skintone of Punjabi. I have been to Murree, punjabi there are not as lighter as pashtuns on average.

Murree is cold place, punjabis there will be less tanned then other parts of Punjab. You may have heard elite punjabis are not dark, well how can be since they don't need to work in fields all day. But then there are people like mussalis who are naturally dark skinned and will not get lighter by moving in to cold place. But majority of punjabis have Shahbaz Sharif like skin tone ''naturally''. While really dark like mussalis or fair like Nawaz Sharif are minority.

Khatris are related to jatt sikhs, they can claim what ever they want. But genetic tests shows different picture. Pakistani dardic groups in north are on average lighter then pashtuns. Not people of Kashmir valley.

 

[ghoul]

harappadna have jat 25-30 samples, after reading the link you posted. That guy is also on harappadna, his ASI is 34% and not 38%. His hap id is 374, his the highest ASI shifted jatt on the list. Nawaz Sharif and Shabaz Sharif are dardic while one brother have fair skin, the other have more standard skintone of Punjabi. I have been to Murree, punjabi there are not as lighter as pashtuns on average.

Murree is cold place, punjabis there will be less tanned then other parts of Punjab. You may have heard elite punjabis are not dark, well how can be since they don't need to work in fields all day. But then there are people like mussalis who are naturally dark skinned and will not get lighter by moving in to cold place. But majority of punjabis have Shahbaz Sharif like skin tone ''naturally''. While really dark like mussalis or fair like Nawaz Sharif are minority.

Khatris are related to jatt sikhs, they can claim what ever they want. But genetic tests shows different picture. Pakistani dardic groups in north are on average lighter then pashtuns. Not people of Kashmir valley.

Read again: "When I used HarappaWorld, these were my results:


S-Indian 37%
Baloch 35%
Caucasian 11%
NE Euro 10%
Siberian 2%
Beringian 2%
Papuan, American, Mediterranean, SW Asian all 1%"

37% south Indian. And mussalis are related to doms and banjara in my opinion. The jatts who work in fields all day look nothing like mussalis. Even other "lower castes" look nothing like mussalis. But yeah, Punjabis are not really light skinned, but brown-olive and obviously darker than Pashtuns. So are Potoharis.

 

[damdam786]

That's what I said. Jats can be considered a monolith to a certain extent. They are more homogenous than most other communities in South Asia. Rajputs are all over the place and look very different depending on the region. Dogra Rajputs are probably the lightest Rajputs on average. Dogra Rajputs of Jammu have also been more prominent historically than other Rajputs int he northern regions such as Potohari Rajputs. The famous Sikh general Banda Singh Bahadur was a Dogra Rajput from Rajouri who converted to Sikhism. There are other examples like Zorawar Singh Kahluria and more.
Khatris are homogenous too I predicted that. There are a lot of Khatris in Jammu and they mostly have a similar look. But they are not known for having light skin in Jammu. They blend in well.
Yep, people in one region will be similar. Potoharis to me look different from Dogras even if they have similar last names as Dogra Rajputs. Probably because the Potohar is so far away.

Exactly, at this point anyone believing to be related on basis of biraderi from another region is wrong. Mixing has been taking place, people in one region are closer to one another despite different biraderis. Genetic tests also prove this point.