Military Simulation - The Indo-Pak conflict - A hyperbole

[m52k85]

Do Indians portray Brahmos as a dual-use system?

I have been wondering about this as well. I gather from here the answer is `no':

However, Pakistan seems to show a very clear stance of a `yes' answer.

 

[m52k85]

How does one defend against something like this?

A very difficult question to answer. Here's an easier one: How does one inflict enough damage on the strike package (men and material)?#

A quick win that comes to mind would be additional well hidden Surveillance and Fire Control Radar's for the SAM batteries that can go online in a few minutes. Once the SEAD aircraft have taken out radar at extreme stand-off ranges, there are a few minutes of false sense of security the remaining package has in such a situation. Imagine if the REK Jfs are rolling in after the SEAD aircraft have done their job and suddenly the S-400 goes online again at much closer ranges.

 

[VkdIndian]

The HQ-9 placed at Sihala at 1500 ft which had SA from the SAAB and other assets is a freaking monster making anything but low level and NOE airspace over IOK a death zone.

Wouldn’t Indian side getting SA from their AEWs? What about Indian radars positioned at higher altitudes that give them some look at lower altitudes into Pakistan? Any consideration to Sihala based HQ9 may be a high value target for Indian side and they might try to neutralise these first? If these were factored in then India should be already throwing-in the towel.

 

[CriticalThought]

Yo @SQ8 my man!!! Get that Audi out, pick up some supplies, and go cruising into the wild man. There ain't gonna be no war in the next hundred years dude!!!

“We are not seeking hostility with India for the next 100 years" pakistan's New security policy seeks ‘peace’ with India

ISLAMABAD: Peace with immediate neighbours and economic diplomacy will be the central theme of the country’s foreign policy in the new National Security Policy, scheduled to be unveiled on Friday. The original 100-page policy, which would be kept under wraps, leaves the door open for trade and...

defence.pk

 

[Muhammed45]

India has Brahmos plus S400 and it must be countered by the Pakistanis.

I Remember once Russian president asked the audience, why are Americans deploying Patriots along with long range radars plus Tomahawks on our borders? He well described that combination of cruise missiles and airdefense systems is an offensive act.

Pakistan should also take it to serioursly and prepare for the deadly combination considering the fact that S400 is not just an airdefense system but also a land attack asset which can target ground based radars and other military installations from 400 KM away.

China would help Pakistan with open arms i guess.

 

[PanzerKiel]

........an hour earlier the UAVs are picked up by IAF AEW, that means it would have picked up the manned formations from Sargodha and Rafique as well. That would give even more time to IAF to put up more numbers. So, did the IAF not respond to more contacts on the AEW or did AEW not pick it up?

Something exactly like this happened on 27 Feb as well, once our airforce took to air, it was readily detected.....however, even then, IAF was unable to put up their max interceptors in the air.....thats what i keep pointing out everywhere, a hidden capability on our side...thats where combat tactics come in.

 

[HRK]

Where would the second one go - I making a guesstimate that Adampur makes an ideal site.

Indian are establishing (or have established) another base of Brahmos Missiles in Gujrat so probably somewhere near to that location

 

[PanzerKiel]

Indian are establishing (or have established) another base of Brahmos Missiles in Gujrat so probably somewhere near to that location

There are other high value assets which Indians will accord priority to...including protection of S-400. Brahmos base, as far as i know, doesnt qualify for that.

 

[farooqbhai007]

Indian are establishing (or have established) another base of Brahmos Missiles in Gujrat so probably somewhere near to that location

Like Panzerkiel said Brahmos is not a high value target as compared to S400 , For Brahmos there are 3 Indian Army sites in Punjab/Kashmir and 3 Indian army sites in Rajasthan. The IAF has 2 sites in Punjab and 2 sites in Indian Gujarat.
So we are facing a total of 10 Brahmos Sites. While even if Indians deploy all S400s , there will probably be only 3 Regiments on our border side that is 6 sites given each battery is deployed separate. ( Each IAF Regiment has 2 batteries ) and a total of 5 Regiments are ordered. So you can see S400 will be more HVT due to a lower number as well.

 

[The Eagle]

Most of S-400 are deployed deep inside for protection of high value sites/equipment. For S-400 they will be or even deployed more defence. A nice run and can be treated as a controlled & well planned onslaught similar to 27th Feb, 2019. It appears to be same kind of response after instigation at first (read Brahmos strike preparation Intel). Whether it was realistic or not but it tells a bit of change in tactics can keep you ahead of enemy.

UAV/UCAV with EW/Attack capability is something that one will not be worried about as compare to a manned A/C. In the meantime, Manned assets will be taking care of opposing manned assets as well. IN all and all; this is more about EW/ECM/UCAV/UAVs and that simulation pretty much presents the idea to have such quality/capability with experience and command on system. The other side will definitely be applying everything in the mix and there, ground intel/AI will play a major role.

@SQ8 First of all thank you for an interesting & a good learning by simulation at-least. A quick question: Did SIM consider all of AD capability of Indian side and deploys the same during simulation? I mean from Aerial assets to Ground capability.

 

[HRK]

There are other high value assets which Indians will accord priority to...including protection of S-400. Brahmos base, as far as i know, doesnt qualify for that.

I understand but I was not expecting only on the basis of Brahmos facility but the on th bases of Indian policy of establishing offensive capabilities in south as well, they have deployed (or was planning to deploy) RAPID in Rajasthan have develop a new airbase in Gujrat

There is higher chances that India will use S-400 as offensive weapon rather in defensive role.

Other than these as you have pointed out they have many multi billion $ dollar assets in Gujarat like reliance refinery, oil and Chemical industry, oil & gas pipelines, ports ets etc.

So there is higher chances of at least 1 S-400 battery going there, which may act as counter force to our Bholari Air Base

 

[farooqbhai007]

I understand but I was not expecting only on the basis of Brahmos facility but the on th bases of Indian policy of establishing offensive capabilities in south as well, they have deployed (or was planning to deploy) RAPID in Rajasthan have develop a new airbase in Gujrat

There is higher chances that India will use S-400 as offensive weapon rather in defensive role.

Other than these as you have pointed out they have many multi billion $ dollar assets in Gujarat like reliance refinery, oil and Chemical industry, oil & gas pipelines, ports ets etc.

So there is higher chances of at least 1 S-400 battery going there, which may act as counter force to our Bholari Air Base

Gujarat has little to no IA Armour units , there is only a regiment with T72s Bhuj , which is pretty much it. There are however infantry units and Towed Air Def Units in Gujarat. The Indians would send Assets from Rajasthan Trio ( Jaislamer - Bikaner - Jodhapur ) to Gujarat , with supporting units from Pune.

 

[HRK]

Gujarat has little to no IA Armour units ,

عزیز من
This is what I said

they have deployed (or was planning to deploy) RAPID in Rajasthan

 

[SIPRA]

Something exactly like this happened on 27 Feb as well, once our airforce took to air, it was readily detected.....however, even then, IAF was unable to put up their max interceptors in the air.....thats what i keep pointing out everywhere, a hidden capability on our side...thats where combat tactics come in.

Sir Jee: Kuchh hum jaesay jaahilon ko bhi samjha dain.

 

[The Eagle]

India will use S-400 as offensive weapon rather in defensive role.

I agree on that point if India raises the number of batteries in future or as planned. Initially, they will deploy and cover the mainland high value assets and then will move close or at-least in offensive manners towards Pakistan. It might take time but apparently, that is Indian plan.