MERL - UIT paving the way to make Pakistan's first indigenous processor

[khansaheeb]

Great start, hope Pakistan gov can take the fabrication and electronics industry seriously.

 

[jamahir]

most of these muslim countries arent exactly democracies. more money is spent into keeping it that way instead of things like going to space. the West wants it that way because it scared of political islam.

1. Yes, like Brunei. It is a rich, Talibanic country and is much beloved of the West. And the West is handing over Afghanistan to the Taliban and leaving, with no concern as to how Taliban will destroy the basic human rights of Afghans.

2. About "Political Islam"... Well, Islam in essence is progressive a political, social and economic system whose aim is a welfare state. And thus those Muslim-majority countries which were governing themselves through Socialism / Communism / Progressiveism were observing the true spirit of Islam. Please read this thread of mine which is an article by an Indian Christian woman who married an Indian Muslim under Islamic marriage law because that better served her economic future in case of divorce. Please also read this thread of mine which is an article by Nadeem Paracha about leftist activism among Muslims since the early 1900s. However, those societies and movements which took Islam to be only a simplistic system of prayer, festival and dress-code, did not really understand the spirit of Islam. Some of these latter entities are readily known : Taliban, Saudia, Brunei, Al Qaeda, Tableeghi Jamaat, Muslim Brotherhood etc. Western governments really liked these latter entities because it kept these so-called Muslims in bondage and non-competitive state. Isn't it true that that the Egyptian Muslim Brotherhood was an agent of the British government and Al Qaeda a creation of CIA ?

but Iran can do it because it is a dictatorship and the sanctions force them to be creative and do creative endeavours like space because it helps in many other industries.

Agreed. It is as true about Iran as even about Israel in different circumstances. Necessity is the parent of innovation.

But Pakistan, and India too, can look at the innovations by Iran and even SpaceX.

Pakistan isnt a dictatorship, its a democracy where the corrupt take their turns to steal.

I understand your point but wish to point out that Pakistan, just like India, USA and Britain, are not real democracies. They are simply "Representative Democracies"... Majoritarian, multi-party dictatorships... Demagogueries.

If in Pakistan the "democratic" governments steal, in India the "democratic" government imposes theocracy.

The real democracy was Libya until 2011 and currently Venezuela has adapted the Libyan system to its local condition.

 

[The Eagle]

it will be great if you are a second nation to add info like the above to it

Don't want to sound like a rude nationalist but may I ask about who is the first nation and when it happened?

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

Well, Islam in essence is progressive a political, social and economic system whose aim is a welfare state.

Islam is a lot of those things. but the spiritual part is also important. cant have a nation that is truly practicing Islam with just prayers and no justice, and vice versa.

But Pakistan, and India too, can look at the innovations by Iran and even SpaceX.

i dont think Iran is a fair comparison. the Gulf Arabs are more scared of Iran than the other war round. sanctions result in Iran having to innovate, but with some sense of security because they know no Arab country is stupid enough to attack Iran with a full scale invasion. even the US is not that stupid. so they can peacefully innovate and spend on science. the last Arab crazy enough to attack Iran was Saddam Husain, and it didnt work out too well for him and all Arabs learnt a lesson from that.

Pakistan is another story. our enemy is a lot bigger in size and very much wants to end our existence, so we spend a big chunk of our budget on defence unlike India just to maintain some kind of conventional deterrence. but Pakistan can do well in innovations if the people could be on the same page and if there was less corruption. i think its India that should be way higher than Pakistan because India knows that we arent big enough to beat them. we dont pose an existential threat to them, like they pose to us. India should have been competing with China, but India has its own problems that prevent it from doing so.

 

[jamahir]

the last Arab crazy enough to attack Iran was Saddam Husain, and it didnt work out too well for him and all Arabs learnt a lesson from that.

Saddam did do some mistakes, like the invasion of Kuwait, the alleged chemical bombing of the Kurds, and the division with Syria.

There is a longer version of this speech by Gaddafi in Arab League conference in 2008. In the longer version he speaks about why Iran's Arab neighbors need to begin friendship with Iran. But watch this speech as well. It speaks of other issues as well.

Pakistan is another story. our enemy is a lot bigger in size and very much wants to end our existence, so we spend a big chunk of our budget on defence unlike India just to maintain some kind of conventional deterrence.

Yes, that can be one explanation of it.

But in my own way I have presented in this thread a solution to the Kashmir issue and how the antagonism between India and Pakistan can end. Please do read it and leave your comment there.

India should have been competing with China, but India has its own problems that prevent it from doing so.

I agree that India with its huge pool of engineers and scientists in so many fields and its big industrial base should have actually had a Mars base by now. But India's elected leaders have not been ambitious about this and even about basic items like free, high quality hospitals for cancers and kidney and eye disease. It is shameful that this job of the Indian government has to be left to private funds crowdsourcing organizations like Ketto. So many people in India suffer just because they don't have access to an artificial thing like money.

But again about space industry in India, there is hope through three new companies : Skyroot Aerospace, Agnikul Cosmos and Bellatrix Aerospace. I hope these three companies combine independently or combinedly develop a manned Mars mission by the mid-2030s.

 

[PakistaniAtBahrain]

But in my own way I have presented in this thread a solution to the Kashmir issue and how the antagonism between India and Pakistan can end. Please do read it and leave your comment there.

this solution just isnt going to happen. Musharraf proposed something like this, but India didnt accept. what more is Pakistan supposed to do in that case? we have always said let the Kashmiris decide. i think Pakistan would agree to India not taking out its troops in IOK as long as the UN and other international countries/observers came in to conduct the plebiscite. India knows who Kashmiris will pick, which is why they wont let this happen. having an open border in Kashmir is also risky for India because if Pakistani Kashmiris go to Indian Kashmir and decide to fight then India is going to lose the media image war and they might just lose Indian Kashmir completely to Pakistan, who also has China as an ally.

the only peaceful solution is India growing up and stop trying to act expansionist like the British whom all our ancestors eventually kicked out. any country that acts expansionist against the will of the people eventually ends up disintegrating. the reality is Pakistan knows that we can play a waiting game. India has 2 major problems, the rise of hindutva and a demographic time bomb which is the muslim population in india. when they become a majority in 1 or 2 more states then Hindutva will suppress them politically. when the muslims react then the hindus will crack down on them hard and then we have a few more kashmirs on our hands, and India simply doesnt have enough soldiers to suppress so many Kashmirs.

Pakistan just needs to play the waiting game. we have already got key regional players as allies. China and Turkey are on our side. India can have Europe, they are a fading continent as it is. USA is too far away. most of the muslim world might be under dictatorships for now, but things can look very different in a few decades, then Pakistan can tarnish India's image and show Kashmir as a muslim oppression angle, and we can got a lot of countries to put pressure on India to handover Kashmir to us. either that or we can get something even better for Pakistan which is a civil war in India and that will doom India and put it in the failed state category that India loves to label Pakistan as. when a state fails then it has no credibility on the world stage and always gives up territory in the end. Yugoslavia failed, and now it only exists as Serbia, whereas the other states broke away to form their own countries. when India reaches that stage it will be forced to give up Kashmir.

its not as simple as Pakistan can just give up Kashmir. lets say we did, does that mean Kashmiris are going to stop hating India? are they going to forget all the pellet guns, killings, rapes, lockdowns, etc? no, so they will keep fighting, which means Pakistan has no reason to give up Kashmir.

 

[fitpOsitive]

Get these get PAC KAMRA on board and you have got most of what you need to make Phone and Tablet hardware..

People with project will be shifted towards capital. They better do it on their own.

 

[aryobarzan]

Don't want to sound like a rude nationalist but may I ask about who is the first nation and when it happened?

The sentence is in the context of nations that have added High Tech info to another "thread" in the Middle East forum...Pakistan became a second nation to add articles related to the Hi Tech in that section and that brought Turkey to the field...and so on..so All is well...It would be great to have more items from Pakistan in that thread. Hopefully it will become a thread that will inform everyone in the region as to what each countries capabilities are in the High Tech and industrial fields.

 

[fitpOsitive]

I will strongly suggest to change the names to Victor I and Barak I.
Don't criticise me for that. But names like abdali or ghazi doesn't go well down the west's throat.

 

[GumNaam]

WE
NEED
FABS!!!

 

[Bilal Khan (Quwa)]

I agree that the ecosystem is also important so I will tell you what I am going to do. For my OS I will write an emulator for the IBM PC architecture just like the Bochs emulator ( webpage ). The emulator will allow running of current x86 OS' like Windows and Linux, albeit probably slowly, but the ecosystem is thus enabled on my new platform.



TBH Pakistan did not spend monetary, material and human resources well. Take your space agency SUPARCO. Instead of dreaming of Pakistanis in space SUPARCO was guided towards military applications by a succession of chiefs who were military generals.

About thirty years ago, Pakistan should have been the leader of a consortium of front-line Muslim-majority countries like Iraq, Syria, Libya, Algeria, Indonesia, Nigeria, Turkey, Iran, even Afghanistan etc whose aim was to build a space station similar to the Soviet Mir. I am not doing vague talk. If a feudal, monarchic country like Russia ( and the rest of the USSR ) could become an industrialized one in one generation and send a human to space in 1961 it is shameful that 50 Muslim-majority countries in the world are not able to send a man to space in 2021. Though it appears that Iran is trying to do that by what 2025 ? If the much sanctioned Iran can attempt this why can't Pakistan ?

Actually, the issue with Pakistani institutions isn't that they get directed to military use.

Rather, they're put in the hands of military leaders who don't fully get what they're managing.

So, even with a military-first-focus, SUPARCO should have still done something meaningful with satellite tech (for military applications), rocket tech (for BMs and SLVs), etc. They didn't. They were led by people who weren't qualified, experienced, or invested in the body of work.

We're lamenting about the lack of economic progress and industrial development. Well, who's in charge of CPEC? is it a development economist? Is it even some corporate executive with experience leading a multi-national firm? Any guesses?

 

[Mujahid Memon]

Sorry but you cannot call this SoC processor as "indigenous" because simply it is just an implementation of the international ( originally American ) project RISC-V. This is similar to someone coming out with yet another distro of Linux.

Such "indigenous" processors have been brought out by China and India as well. So no great shakes really.

It would have been wonderful if the Ibtida processor ( meaning "The Beginning" ) mentioned above had actually been a new ISA / architecture. Something from Pakistan to the world.

Why reinventing the wheel

1. Well, I have been designing an independent ISA and an OS to go with it

Why don't you start with reinventing the silicon crystallization technology as its too patented by the West.

1. Well, I have been designing an independent ISA and an OS to go with it

Yeah that's why it took you

many years

And it will take you

many more years

until

I die

 

[GumNaam]

Actually, the issue with Pakistani institutions isn't that they get directed to military use.

Rather, they're put in the hands of military leaders who don't fully get what they're managing.

So, even with a military-first-focus, SUPARCO should have still done something meaningful with satellite tech (for military applications), rocket tech (for BMs and SLVs), etc. They didn't. They were led by people who weren't qualified, experienced, or invested in the body of work.

We're lamenting about the lack of economic progress and industrial development. Well, who's in charge of CPEC? is it a development economist? Is it even some corporate executive with experience leading a multi-national firm? Any guesses?

if that is the case then the military needs to dedicate sustained resources & funding towards building semiconductor fabrication facilities that produce anything from processors to random access memory.

 

[jamahir]

Why reinventing the wheel

1. It is easier and simpler to create one's own architecture than to spend effort in understanding other people's architecture.

2. It will be an interesting exercise.

3. Something from you to your country and the world.

4. If it can be done then why not ?

Why don't you start with reinventing the silicon crystallization technology as its too patented by the West.

I don't understand materials science ATM so what is silicon crystallization ?

Yeah that's why it took you

And it will take you

until

There is a open-to-public webpage where I have written some of the basic architecture and the desired way-points for both the processor and OS. If you could read that you would have seen that it won't take me until death to realize the whole system. I hope to register a LLP type company in coming months and approach venture capitalists to fund for recruitment of engineers and purchase of instruments.

 

[Ali_Baba]

A tiny tiny step in the right direction for sure. But, tiny and overblown. A university grade project under Google sponsorship it seems.

No one is going to create their own instruction set these days so lets get that nonsense off the table, either it is licensed or open sourced instruction sets based off ie x86, ARM and MIPS/RISC-V or its a dead end. You have to tie your product into an existing ecosystem for it to be successful otherwise you are at a dead end.

You would have thought, as part of the Azm programme, that they would need custom SOC's for it ?

Pakistan is so far behind in electronics engineering design and development it is not funny. A few UK universitites exceed the entire intellectual output of Pakistan's "electronics engineering design and development " capabiliites.

.... dont get me started on this topic.