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Memoirs of a (Pakistani) Hindu girl

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Can you still not understand that Islam forbids Muslims from pretending to be non-Muslims, except when under threat of persecution, torture, or death? How many times must I repeat this? Do you really want us to break our religious commandments?
You are under threat of persecution, torture, or death; you never know when a bomb planted by extremists will take your life, or if you will be kidnapped for ransom, etc. Under such circumstances are you really breaking a religious commandment, or are you disguising yourself to infiltrate the camp of an enemy or ally?

The problem is that our society needs to come up with solutions to help & protect them & then implement those solutions.
Wow, if you think that's all that's needed you REALLY have to read Black Like Me. If you can't afford the book Amazon does offer a preview.

Why can't we learn about the problems our religious minorities are facing without masquerading as non-Muslims?
The preview answers that question.

Gotta go. Good luck.
 
Phoenix you can pretend to be of a other religion. You can partake in the rituals..you need not believe in them..you can go through the motions mechanically. It is allowed..and by the way most Muslim actors world wide go through these motions while acting.
 
Phoenix you can pretend to be of a other religion. You can partake in the rituals..you need not believe in them..you can go through the motions mechanically. It is allowed..and by the way most Muslim actors world wide go through these motions while acting.

Acting in front of a camera isn't the same as concealing your faith pointlessly. Everyone is aware of your faith while acting. As for mechanically performing the rituals of other religions, I am not going to do that ever. It's forbidden to take part in the religious rituals & practices of others unless of course there is risk of torture or death. Apart from it being forbidden to hide my faith, I do not have time for such an experiment. I suggest you visit the link I posted earlier.
 
Doing what i said is not against any tenet of Islam. so we would just have to agree to.disagree on this point.
 
I don't know about rituals man.

I'm pretty open about respecting everyones God, and book, and whatever.

Live and let live - but first and above all always protect your own right to live as you want first.

Not for me the cr-ap of turning the other cheek.

Probably the only thing I have not been able to bring myself to do, that has led to some uncomfortable situations, has been to touch someone's feet.

Just not part of our culture and how we were brought up.

Everything else is open season personally.
 
You are under threat of persecution, torture, or death; you never know when a bomb planted by extremists will take your life, or if you will be kidnapped for ransom, etc. Under such circumstances are you really breaking a religious commandment, or are you disguising yourself to infiltrate the camp of an enemy or ally?

:angry:

Most of the issues our religious minorities face require dealing with extremists. We do not need to do any social experiments to figure that out. Pakistan is already fighting against terrorists & other extremists, & I hope that our government does something about foolish scholars giving out ignorant "fatwas". Once they are under control, many of the people that have been misled by them would require to be reeducated. That will naturally take some time, but education will help us solve a lot of the issues Pakistani society faces in regards to intolerance & extremism.

Didn't your brain comprehend that Islam forbids pretending to belong to another religion pointlessly? It's really annoying how you continuously ignore that. Read the link I gave you earlier in a previous post.

This experiment is similar to infiltration in some ways, the best that would come of it would be first hand knowledge regarding the sufferings of religious minorities. So if it is really necessary for Pakistanis to perform such an experiment, we can do so by asking a willing non-Muslim to take part in it.

Wow, if you think that's all that's needed you REALLY have to read Black Like Me. If you can't afford the book Amazon does offer a preview.

Who says that all that's needed is to come up with solutions & implement them? That is one of the steps we need to take of course. We need to understand the mindset of the people that can't get along with religious minorities as well. I could come up with more steps that we are required to take, but I don't feel it's necessary for this discussion. By the way, I can afford to buy that book, I am not poor.

The preview answers that question.

Gotta go. Good luck.

I don't have time to read go through the entire preview to search for an answer, it is you who must answer the question. In any case, I realize why this experiment would be useful, & I already told you previously that a non-Muslim could take part in it. By the way, have you conducted any social experiments to deal with the problems your society faces? I advise you to do so, don't forget to write a book about the results of your experiments either. :rofl:

As I stated earlier, even if there were no religious restrictions, I would not be performing this experiment. I have other important duties & responsibilities that I need to fulfill relating to my job, studies, & family. I simply do not have time to undertake such a task.

Doing what i said is not against any tenet of Islam. so we would just have to agree to.disagree on this point.

It is against the tenets of Islam except under threat of persecution, torture or death. Muslims are forbidden to conceal their faith. An actor or an actress performing the rituals of another religion isn't exactly the same as concealing faith. An actor or an actress is acting without concealing faith, they are simply doing their job. This experiment that the other member suggested requires intentionally concealing your faith from others, & that is forbidden except under threat of persecution, torture, or death. Once again, refer to the link I told you about.
 
We all can argue that in our times it is difficult to follow what is written to the T, I can see many if not all who do things in contradiction to the word in the book..

Anyways to each his own..
 
We all can argue that in our times it is difficult to follow what is written to the T, I can see many if not all who do things in contradiction to the word in the book..

It's true that many Muslims do not follow every aspect of the Islamic law. Some people drink alcohol even though religion forbids it. However, none of us would dare to violate important teachings of the scripture. For example; none of us will bow to an idol, even if it's for the sake of a social experiment.

To prove my point, I found a hadith (saying of the prophet) for everyone to read below.

The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever imitates a people is one of them.” Narrated by Abu Dawood, 3512; classed as saheeh by al-Albaani.

This refers to acts of worship & some other things, the reasoning is that imitating the followers of another religion could result in adopting their beliefs. Keep in mind that the explanation I have provided is extremely simple & general.
 
Maybe it is true in Paksitan's case that people have followed what they considered Islam rather than reading the Quran which should have been, a very good example comes to mind.

Not maybe...Sadly, most have...Since many are illiterate they wait for Mullah sahabs to give explanations or teach them...And mullah sahabs not knowing Arabic just preach what his daddy had taught him...This is why I have repeatedly said we need to get rid of these Mullahs!



The Martial Law Regulation No. 51 which was imposed in 1969, it was to punish everyone who was in possession or published anything offensive to Islam, however the irony was it was not defined what was offensive to Islam. This regulation came under Yahya Khan, I'm sure we cannot call him illiterate or incapable to understand Islam.

Like I also said in another post...Politicians do whatever (sadly some in the name of Islam) to show they are Muslims and get votes or in this case acceptance...
 
@ Talon

What do you think of this experiment Solomon2 asked me to conduct in an earlier post?
 
Fifty years ago an American author asked why minority blacks felt alienated. He decided to do something nobody thought of before: change his identity and skin color from white to black so he could write about the change in his day-to-day experience in his book, Black Like Me.

Why not try something similar? Why not assume a new Hindu or Christian identity and tell everyone what it feels like in everyday experiences, contrasting it with what you felt as a Muslim in similar situations?

Because the "AMERICAN AUTHOR" changed his identity where racial discrimination was taking place not religious...THIS is the problem Pakistanis are facing too...THEY HAVE NOT BEEN ABLE TO DISCRIMINATE BETWEEN CULTURE AND RELIGION...

One should be suicidal to do that in pakistan

Huh? Do what?
 
@ Talon

What do you think of this experiment Solomon2 asked me to conduct in an earlier post?

You mean change religion? Well from his posts I can say for a certainty that MR SOLOMON2 doesn't understand religion especially Islam.

We can not convert to another religion because of fear of GOD (not that GOD would attack us...but when you say love for GOD than do the opposite is just hypocritical) rather than a mob attacking us. For this Hindu girl she is still a Hindu because the silly MULLAHs forgot the 1 pillar of ISLAM and hence, the whole conversion was more of ritualistic cult movement than her becoming a Muslim...

The 1st pillar is the shahadah where you DECLARE there is no GOD but ALLAH and MUHAMMAD is HIS messenger...You declare this with your tongue and accept this with your heart. If you do not do even 1 of the 2 you are NOT A MUSLIM...she did not accept it with her heart.

Since we declare this- it is our treaty with GOD...Humans may break a treaty with other humans but breaking 1 with GOD is asking for more than just trouble...Like in the old testament and even in the Torah man has been in a treaty with GOD and tried to abide to it...Converting is breaking the treaty. Pretending to convert is the silliest solution to any religious matter! In pretense you don't learn anything instead hurt the people whom you are pretending to be and make a mockery of religion itself!
 
You mean change religion? Well from his posts I can say for a certainty that MR SOLOMON2 doesn't understand religion especially Islam.

We can not convert to another religion because of fear of GOD rather than a mob attacking us. For this Hindu girl she is still a Hindu because the silly MULLAHs forgot the 1 pillar of ISLAM and hence, the whole conversion was more of ritualistic cult movement than her becoming a Muslim...

The 1st pillar is the shahadah where you DECLARE there is no GOD but ALLAH and MUHAMMAD is HIS messenger...You declare this with your tongue and accept this with your heart. If you do not do even 1 of the 2 you are NOT A MUSLIM...she did not accept it with her heart.

Since we declare this- it is our treaty with GOD...Humans may break a treaty with other humans but breaking 1 with GOD is asking for more than just trouble...Like in the old testament and even in the Torah man has been in a treaty with GOD and tried to abide to it...Converting is breaking the treaty. Pretending to convert is the silliest solution to any religious matter! In pretense you don't learn anything instead hurt the people whom you are pretending to be and make a mockery of religion itself!

I agree with you. Isn't it true that Muslims can not pretend to be followers of another faith unless there is risk of persecution, torture, or death?
 
Phoenix you can pretend to be of a other religion. You can partake in the rituals..you need not believe in them..you can go through the motions mechanically. It is allowed..and by the way most Muslim actors world wide go through these motions while acting.

Where is that part written?

I agree with you. Isn't it true that Muslims can not pretend to be followers of another faith unless there is risk of persecution, torture, or death?

Well, it is allowed but I rather die as a Muslim than to change my religion when I am persecuted or tortured! :)

I agree with you. Isn't it true that Muslims can not pretend to be followers of another faith unless there is risk of persecution, torture, or death?

Well, we all know historically the sahabahs were tortured and died a Shaheed death at the hands of the Arabs back then...That is better. But we are allowed to "pretend" but I am not sure to what degree...
 
Well, it is allowed but I rather die as a Muslim than to change my religion when I am persecuted or tortured! :)

Well, we all know historically the sahabahs were tortured and died a Shaheed death at the hands of the Arabs back then...That is better. But we are allowed to "pretend" but I am not sure to what degree...

That's true, but what I meant was that Muslims can't hide their religion right? They are forbidden from concealing their faith unless of course they were being threatened with torture or death. That is the only time they may pretend to be non-Muslims. However, they can't claim to be non-Muslims simply for an experiment. :)

Here is a source from Wikipedia.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taqiyya#Sunni_Islam_view

It seems reliable enough, I am referring to the "Sunni Islam view" because I am a Sunni Muslim, but you may refer to other sects if required.
 
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