Meet Owj: Iran’s First Indigenous Fighter Jet Engine

[That Guy]

I'm not talking about their technological capabilities, its more their doctrine and tactics.

And you honestly think those haven't changed? Seriously?

 

[AmirPatriot]

And you honestly think those haven't changed? Seriously?

Certainly they have changed to some degree, but when they are desperate to gloss over that exercise and carry on as if nothing happened and they didn't lose 19 ships, it does bring a certain element of doubt into the level of learning they have gleaned over the past 15 years. After all, if you aren't prepared to admit you've made mistakes then you won't fix them.

 

[That Guy]

Certainly they have changed to some degree, but when they are desperate to gloss over that exercise and carry on as if nothing happened and they didn't lose 19 ships, it does bring a certain element of doubt into the level of learning they have gleaned over the past 15 years. After all, if you aren't prepared to admit you've made mistakes then you won't fix them.

On the other hand, it has been 15 years since then, the people in charge have changed.

You simply cannot compare today to yesteryear.

 

[AmirPatriot]

On the other hand, it has been 15 years since then, the people in charge have changed.

You simply cannot compare today to yesteryear.

Ok then, can you provide any proof (statements or quotes) of any official since then acknowledging that the US has a lot of work to do?

 

[Shams313]

Whats about the total thrust output? observing from various angle, it seems a there are numerous change in the design comparing original j-85. The product is also well finished..Looks good.
Hope that they will find a way to improve the thrust and afterburner. there is a huge possibility that, this engine may be used in sorfesh mahi UCAV program . Twin engine may fit for powering the whole system.
By the way, Congrats!!
where is @SOHEIL man!!..Did he got banned again..?

 

[SOHEIL]

Whats about the total thrust output? observing from various angle, it seems a there are numerous change in the design comparing original j-85. The product is also well finished..Looks good.
Hope that they will find a way to improve the thrust and afterburner. there is a huge possibility that, this engine may be used in sorfesh mahi UCAV program . Twin engine may fit for powering the whole system.
By the way, Congrats!!
where is @SOHEIL man!!..Did he got banned again..?

 

[That Guy]

Ok then, can you provide any proof (statements or quotes) of any official since then acknowledging that the US has a lot of work to do?

Literally every exercise that the US conducts is proof enough that the US acknowledges that they have a lot of work to do. Literally every single cent they pour into research and development is evidence enough that the US acknowledges that they have a lot of work to do.

Your comment is nonsensical.

 

[AmirPatriot]

Literally every exercise that the US conducts is proof enough that the US acknowledges that they have a lot of work to do. Literally every single cent they pour into research and development is evidence enough that the US acknowledges that they have a lot of work to do.

Your comment is nonsensical.

If I go to the doctor for a checkup right now and he tells me I am in 100% perfect health, will I think I have any work to do?

MC 2002 is the equivalent of the doctor not telling you that you have a crippling heart disease so as not to hurt your feelings, then you die from a heart attack while bungee jumping a week later.

 

[WordsMatter]

If I go to the doctor for a checkup right now and he tells me I am in 100% perfect health, will I think I have any work to do?

MC 2002 is the equivalent of the doctor not telling you that you have a crippling heart disease so as not to hurt your feelings, then you die from a heart attack while bungee jumping a week later.

@AmirPatriot That's a bad analogy. The purpose of that exercise was to find weaknesses in the defensive posture of the Gulf carrier group vis-a-vis a hypothetical country with swarm tactic. They found the holes, through careful observation of IRI's small boats formation and tactics, as well as many exercises since MC 2002, and fixed them.

HST, I am sure IRI have also evolved their tactics since then.

 

[AmirPatriot]

@AmirPatriot That's a bad analogy. The purpose of that exercise was to find weaknesses in the defensive posture of the Gulf carrier group vis-a-vis a hypothetical country with swarm tactic. They found the holes, through careful observation of IRI's small boats formation and tactics, as well as many exercises since MC 2002, and fixed them.

HST, I am sure IRI have also evolved their tactics since then.

By looking at MC 2002 there is no indication that they fixed them. They just scripted the exercise to make it impossible to lose. Obviously they must have learnt something in 15 years, but not much if at all from MC 2002.

 

[That Guy]

If I go to the doctor for a checkup right now and he tells me I am in 100% perfect health, will I think I have any work to do?

MC 2002 is the equivalent of the doctor not telling you that you have a crippling heart disease so as not to hurt your feelings, then you die from a heart attack while bungee jumping a week later.

That literally makes no sense. You're assuming that the US ignored (or at least continues to ignore), the problems it ran into.

You're assuming that there have never been follow up exercises within the following years.

From this year (2017):
https://southfront.org/us-launches-war-games-in-persian-gulf-amid-rising-tensions-with-iran/
http://www.military.com/daily-news/...ins-in-persian-gulf-amid-iranian-warning.html

2015:
http://www.iran-daily.com/News/113948.html

2014:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2014/dec/10/us-navy-test-laser-weapon-persian-gulf
http://gcaptain.com/worlds-largest-naval-exercise-kicks-persian-gulf/

2013:
https://atwar.blogs.nytimes.com/201...drills-in-persian-gulf-a-signal-to-iran/?_r=0
https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/new-round-minesweeping-drills-persian-gulf

2012:
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/1...l-exercises-in-persian-gulf-as-iran-says.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/rundown/navy-exercise/


There are probably FAR MORE, but I think I've made my point.

The US is constantly improving and conducting new exercises, your arguments are invalid, because they're LITERALLY out dated.

 

[AmirPatriot]

You're assuming that there have never been follow up exercises within the following year

If you see my next post, you would see I do not hold this view.

Of course they have learnt something, but MC 2002 was designed to be the most comprehensive and complex war game ever conducted, costing $250 million. That was the biggest learning opportunity they ever had and they blew it.

 

[That Guy]

If you see my next post, you would see I do not hold this view.

Of course they have learnt something, but MC 2002 was designed to be the most comprehensive and complex war game ever conducted, costing $250 million. That was the biggest learning opportunity they ever had and they blew it.

Again, that was not the point of the original comment. What's his face used the 2002 exercises as an end all be all, when in fact, and you rightfully acknowledge, that isn't true at all.

that was literally my entire point. Using old exercises from 15 years ago, to gauge today's realities is ridiculous.

 

[AmirPatriot]

that was literally my entire point. Using old exercises from 15 years ago, to gauge today's realities is ridiculous.

Then we need to see how capabilities and posture have changed in 15 years.

 

[mohsen]

that was literally my entire point. Using old exercises from 15 years ago, to gauge today's realities is ridiculous.

today's reality is even more real. number, quality, range, stealthiness and types of our missiles have increased by dozen times, while Americans are still using the same floating cans waiting to be targeted.
Grounded: Nearly two-thirds of US Navy’s strike fighters can’t fly