Medical Report of Mohtarma Benazir Bhutto

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Proud to be pakistani,

You and I are so far away---that you have no comprehension of what I am talking about----Hope is for the people who are WEAK S U C K S----the word hope is a part of sob story that the countrymen use when they have no solution for the problems at hand or they have no clue how to proceed forward---hope is not the term that 'MEN' use to build their nation----to build a nation, men and women of the nation get together and take a stand and steer the nation towards that direction----.

In building a nation----just because the economy is growing, doesn't mean that everbody is happy. There are other factors invovled as well which are very well evident in the frontier provinces----

From your answer, you come out very young and have a lot of misunderstanding about the religion---the issue over here is not islam---the issue over here is the muslim---and the nation of pakistan---you think Allah is going to make you strong when you gang rape women, make them walk naked on the village streets because somehow you felt offended by their actions----you really think that Allah is coming to your help for being injust to the weak and the poor---you talk about praying to Allah---but you don't talk about fighting to provide justice to the weak and the poor---

You still do not have any clue what you are saying---you may die but the promise of Allah will be fulfilled---kiddo---Allah promised the sanctity and the preservation of the religion ISLAM----but Allah never promised the supermacy of the people that we call "muslims" as such.

You are so 'innocent' when you say that through out the time there have been incidences when muslim empire have lost hope-----son---where are you getting your teachings from---this sounds like again another sob story---muslims had problems because they stopped providing ''JUSTICE" to the weak and the poor. DID NOBODY TEACH YOU MY BOY THAT 1400 YEARS AGO THE PEOPLE WHO CONVERTED TO ISLAM, CHOSE TO DO SO FOR BEING TREATED EQUAL AND BEING PROVIDED JUSTICE WITHOUT PREJUDICE OF RACE COLOR CREED GENDER OR RELIGION. They didnot become muslim because they hoped things will get better---Islam gave them that right----islam also gave them the right to ask for equal rights and justice---islam gave them the right to ask for justice by force-----today these SUPERSTAR SUPREME JUSTICES OF PAKISTAN CH IFTIKHAR & CO HAD PASSED AN ORDINANCE THAT THE JUDGES JUDGEMENTS CANNOT BE CRITISCIZED. Lack of providing JUSTICE is the first link in the chain of events that leads to the downfall of a nation---a muslim nation or any other nation----JUSTICE IS THE STRONGEST LINK that a nation has, that holds its people together. Lack of justice has destroyed many a civilization----.

Islam will indeed come ahead---but I guess no one told you that Allah also said that HE can take this priveldege away from the muslims and give to another group of people who show better ability to handle themselves.

Talk is cheap---come up with a better answer than prayer---talk some strategy, gamesmanship, how to handle issues, what are the problems, how to solve them, what is wrong with our approach, why do we keep repeating the same mistakes again and again, don't be on the defensive all the time, understand that there will be people who will conspire against us, make a plan to overcome adversity, prepare a plan on how to tackle your opponents, stop blaming others for our problems, take responsibility and ownership of our actions and be just and kind to people. Help in providing justice to the weak and the poor and try to make their lives easier will help you build a stronger nation.

Mastan.

You take the wind off my sails and you are so articulate that the very words that I grope for, I find that you have beaten me to the draw.

You and Agnostic make my day with your frank dissection of the world events with your pragmatic views, devoid of the baggage of emotions, sentimental mush and religion.

Honestly, I visit this forum to see both your and Agnostic's posts.

I will say it does not mean I agree with your views, but with people like you and Agnostic who are ready to call a spade a spade, the feeling that Moslems are not ready to see reality that is felt in other places of the world, vanishes.

To my mind, you and Agnostic and also some others are doing a yeoman's service to the Islamic world, where one realises that there are people who are pragmatic and it softens all, who feel adherents of Islam to be blinkered, to look at the reality and realise that they themselves are being obtuse and bigoted.

Like Abu Ben Adhem, may your tribe increase!

I remain humbled by your and Agnostic's posts.

Thank you both for making this world look at little closer and with compassion and fairness at the woes that has seized us and without the bitterness and lack of understanding that the terrorists have bestowed on the world.

My your God bless you both!

 

[Vinod2070]

A great post Mastan!

I totally second Salim sir's views. Couldn't have expressed it better myself.

 

[IceCold]

Icecold,

The mughals got defeated because for a change they came across a world class warrior who beat them to a pulp---a big change from killing the hindus. The british were coming out of a 100 years war, their weaponery and war strategy was far superior than the mughals. Their troopers could shoot faster and their cannons used grape shot while the mughals were using ball type shots in their cannons---so, most of the muslim soldiers were slaughtered before they could even reach the frontlines of the british forces.

No sir, the british simply came for trading in the name of british east indian trading company but when they saw that mughals are no good but a bunch of fools with absolutly no brains, they started to increase their influence. It was not untill the very end that they used force that resulted in the decivise victory for the british. So there is no point of superiority at all.

By the way, the muslims and mughals bet on the wrong horse the FRENCH---after their loss in waterloo they had to give away all their territorial advantage and walk away from any support of the locals.

Excuses!

Icecold you are getting angry again---being men does not mean to bomb the world---but to use the common sense---and use strategy and technique---when things go wrong then don't let anyone know that you are torn up inside and when things go your way, then be gracious in your victory---you want to go by my logic and you don't even know what my logic is---you assumed my logic was your standard logic----you are wrong my boy---. When there are muslims killed in kashmir or palestine, pakistanis don't need to go on strike and close their business for a day and do harm to themselves---but rather they should work an extra day---instead of burning their own transportation, they should help in managing an maintaining it a little better---any time there is a problem against the muslims, pakistanis need to work extra for the cause---that is what being a man means---.

No sir i'm not getting angry but it was you who called rather all pakistanies as suckas.

Now talking about problem----when there is a problem---you don't hide it---you know what happens when you hide the problem----women who are raped---live in shame and the rapist is walking with their heads held high---when little children are sexually abused---those little boys walk the rest of their lives in shame---and the culprits are walking shamelessly proud----that is what happens when you try to shove these things under the rug---the issues regarding criminals should be brought out and these people need be put to shame.

Sir i disagree. The question isnt about hiding out the problem its about fixing it but whatever problem one has at home, that doesnt mean we start advertising it and that too in the hands of jews and others, that cannot even for onesecond think off doing anything better for pakistan rather hurt it. My point is that our problem is ours and we need to fix it on our own and we are fixing it, but that doesnt give someone else the right to start calling us whatever they like too and people like you helping them in.

I appreciate you not challenging my loyalty---so it is a misunderstanding on my part---then I will take my comments back---but then you use a word pathetic---you need to stop kiddo---

.

I never challenge your loyality or for that matter i did not called you pathetic, however its your logic about advertising the problems and that too in the hands of the west is what i consider is pathetic on your part sir.

We have problems, because we have lost all sense of morality and justice---where a boy is sexually abused and to hide the crime, it is emphasized that he had a relationship with a girl and then to punish the family one of their women is gang raped----is this the nation that you would call a nation on its way to success----no this is the sign of a state which has failed----how about the incidence when a blind girl was raped first by the landlord's son and them by the landlord himself and when she became pregnant, she was charged by the shariaat court---the culprits were freed and she was put in jail----you call this nation a success nation---where an american JEW SENATOR had to threaten a MUSLIM GENERAL ZIA to free that woman otherwise there would be serious consequences for pakistan---a JEW coming to the rescue of a muslim woman in pakistan to get her some justice form the islamic court---isn't that a shame for a nation---calling itself to be the leader of islam---isn't that a moment of shame for the pakistanis for not standing up against it---you could find my article in a couple of pakistani newspapers here in the U S at that time.

So no one is denying the fact that it is a shamefull act that happens and my question here to you is that whenever a sharia law is suppose to be passed all these so called champions of humanright jump in. These people who commit such an act should be punnished according to the islamic rule i.e is sunsar him openly who commits rape, the one that commits robbery, his hand should be cut off, the one that commits muder of another person, should be given death and that too in the open just like in SA. But no because then these so called humanrights watch will rise up that human rights are being absued in pakistan and people like you will start writing articles highlighting the human rights abuse going on in pakistan.By the way rape isnt the thing done only in pakistan, the west has more cases then we ever gonna have, yet only pakistani cases are highlited, its because sorry to say but people like you who do it. Now i dont say that this problem should not be solved but this isnt the manner in which it should because for e.g the article you are talking about, the only good it did was to bring a bad name to pakistan and nothing else. And the jew you are talking about i'm sure he didnt come under any good will.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

No sir, the british simply came for trading in the name of british east indian trading company but when they saw that mughals are no good but a bunh of fools with absolutly no brains, they started to increase their influence. It was not untill the very end that they used force that resulted in the decivise victory for the british. So there is no point of superiority at all.

Victory has many fathers, defeat is an orphan!

Moguls were not fools.

Mastan has very correctly analysed the issue.

You have no clue of the history of warfare as is evident by your post!

Excuses!

Apart form this one word, have you anything brilliant to offer?

How is it an excuse?

Let sentiments not rule, let history and the understanding of warfare help you rid yourself from the superciliousness that you exhibit!

No sir i'm not getting angry but it was you who called rather all pakistanies as suckas.

If you are not angry and losing balance of mind, then anger would take a different meaning!

Sir i disagree. The question isnt about hiding out the problem its about fixing it but whatever problem one has at home, that doesnt mean we start advertising it and that too in the hands of jews and others, that cannot even for onesecond think off doing anything better for pakistan rather hurt it. My point is that our problem is ours and we need to fix it on our own and we are fixing it, but that doesnt give someone else the right to start calling us whatever they like too and people like you helping them in.

You all love the Chinese. You greatest chums!

Learn something from them.

Self criticism to cleanse the system!

One should not be ostriches!

I never challenge your loyality or for that matter i did not called you pathetic, however its your logic about advertising the problems and that too in the hands of the west is what i consider is pathetic on your part sir.

That is news.

How come the NYT overlooked it?

So no one is denying the fact that it is a shamefull act that happens and my question here to you is that whenever a sharia law is suppose to be passed all these so called champions of humanright jump in. These people who commit such an act should be punnished according to the islamic rule i.e is sunsar him openly who commits rape, the one that commits robbery, his hand should be cut off, the one that commits muder of another person, should be given death and that too in the open just like in SA. But no because then these so called humanrights watch will rise up that human rights are being absued in pakistan and people like you will start writing articles highlighting the human rights abuse going on in pakistan.By the way rape isnt the thing done only in pakistan, the west has more cases then we ever gonna do have, but why only pakistani cases are highlited, its because sorry to say but people like you who do it. Now i dont say that this problem should not be solved but this isnt the manner in which it should because for e.g the article you are talking about, the only good it did was to bring a bad name to pakistan and nothing else. And the jew you are talking about i'm sure he didnt come under any good will.

Sweetheart, have you ever cared to read what Jinnah said in his first address to the Pakistan Constituent Assembly?


Are you superior to Jinnah?

 

[IceCold]

Mastan.

You take the wind off my sails and you are so articulate that the very words that I grope for, I find that you have beaten me to the draw.

You and Agnostic make my day with your frank dissection of the world events with your pragmatic views, devoid of the baggage of emotions, sentimental mush and religion.

Honestly, I visit this forum to see both your and Agnostic's posts.

I will say it does not mean I agree with your views, but with people like you and Agnostic who are ready to call a spade a spade, the feeling that Moslems are not ready to see reality that is felt in other places of the world, vanishes.

To my mind, you and Agnostic and also some others are doing a yeoman's service to the Islamic world, where one realises that there are people who are pragmatic and it softens all, who feel adherents of Islam to be blinkered, to look at the reality and realise that they themselves are being obtuse and bigoted.

Like Abu Ben Adhem, may your tribe increase!

I remain humbled by your and Agnostic's posts.

Thank you both for making this world look at little closer and with compassion and fairness at the woes that has seized us and without the bitterness and lack of understanding that the terrorists have bestowed on the world.

My your God bless you both!

Mastan sab do you see what i am trying to highlight here. DOnt you get it people like Mr.Salim are always there to provide you with their shoulder in the name of being honest and calling spades, a spades but you see truth is far from enough in this case. Even you know it. These people except from doing harm and creating a fight like atmosphere between pakistanies have nothing else to give in the name of soo called freedom of expression and how they want to see pakistan a properous nation. What absolute BS.
Sir problems are everywhere and we need to fix them but remember we do not need to become a toy in the hands of these so called simpathizers, because they are not and the only thing they will ever come up will be a rant against pakistan and that too from your words, distortling them.

 

[IceCold]

Victory has many fathers, defeat is an orphan!

Moguls were not fools.

Mastan has very correctly analysed the issue.

You have no clue of the history of warfare as is evident by your post!



Apart form this one word, have you anything brilliant to offer?

How is it an excuse?

Let sentiments not rule, let history and the understanding of warfare help you rid yourself from the superciliousness that you exhibit!



If you are not angry and losing balance of mind, then anger would take a different meaning!



You all love the Chinese. You greatest chums!

Learn something from them.

Self criticism to cleanse the system!

One should not be ostriches!





That is news.

How come the NYT overlooked it?



Sweetheart, have you ever cared to read what Jinnah said in his first address to the Pakistan Constituent Assembly?


Are you superior to Jinnah?

I will reply to your post in detail when i come back, i'm busy at the moment. But what your are trying to do here doesnt amazes me at all, that is what your are meant to do.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Icecold,

It is people like Mr Salim who are not tonga horse with blinkers on!

Have you seen a war?

Have you seen how many lives are lost.

Hae noticed, at least, that nothing has been gained irrespective of lives lost?

Stop being a back-seat soldier charged with stupidities!

Stop being brave on other shoulders!

I wish Pakistan well.

And that is the only answer for Asian stability!

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

I will reply to your post in detail when i come back, i'm busy at the moment. But what your are trying to do here doesnt amazes me at all, that is what your are meant to do.

It amazes me as to how stupid people can be, whose whole life hinges on hate!

Is Hate your religion and ethos of life?

Have some shame. You claim Islam is not of Hate and instead of Peace.

At least prove it so with goodness in your thoughts.

Only an insecure and a brainless wonder feels that whole world is against him.

Are you a brainless wonder?

My reply is of the above post as also to what you have written to Mastan!

Mastan sab do you see what i am trying to highlight here. DOnt you get it people like Mr.Salim are always there to provide you with their shoulder in the name of being honest and calling spades, a spades but you see truth is far from enough in this case.

This shows that you are a bigoted, brainless hate ridden individual who can see nothing good or pleasant happening around him!

Such people are dangerous who incite hate.

Spreading love and compassion is the credo of religion.

Islam also says so.

Given the claim that Islam is a religion of peace and humanity, I ask are you indeed a Moslem?

 

[IceCold]

Icecold,

It is people like Mr Salim who are not tonga horse with blinkers on!

Really! I though you were even worse.

Have you seen a war?

Yes i have. I have a military background, so stop showingoff about your military background

Have you seen how many lives are lost.

This line doesnt suite you after killing so many innocent kashmiries. Its like bagal main churi maoon main raam raam.

Stop being a back-seat soldier charged with stupidities!

And you stop from being showing such emotions for pakistan.

Stop being brave on other shoulders!

You mean i stop feeling proud about my army? ahh look who's talking

I wish Pakistan well.

Really! How touching. Tears felt out of my eyes

And that is the only answer for Asian stability!

Its about time since indians started to realize about asian stability. Stop being mother india and rest assured there will be peace.

 

[IceCold]

It amazes me as to how stupid people can be, whose whole life hinges on hate!

Is Hate your religion and ethos of life?

Have some shame. You claim Islam is not of Hate and instead of Peace.

At least prove it so with goodness in your thoughts.

Only an insecure and a brainless wonder feels that whole world is against him.

Are you a brainless wonder?

My reply is of the above post as also to what you have written to Mastan!

This shows that you are a bigoted, brainless hate ridden individual who can see nothing good or pleasant happening around him!

Such people are dangerous who incite hate.

Spreading love and compassion is the credo of religion.

Islam also says so.

Given the claim that Islam is a religion of peace and humanity, I ask are you indeed a Moslem?

So you mean you should be allowed to carry on with your as usual BS about pakistan and how much you care about it and noone allowed to object. And i dont need lectures from an indian and that too specially about religion. And yes indeed islam is off peace but it also gives us full right to defend ourself against the enemy an enemy like india.
And before telling me about shame just look at your own collar since you are from the army and you will find out how many bloodspots you have.
And as for proving anything, i really dont have the time neither the energy to waiste it on you, since you the one of those kinds who like to just rant and that too without much knowning of anything. Dont let me remind you who was the one getting too excited about jumping between 2 pakistanies and placing his soft shoulder.So it was necessary for me to highlight it to Mr.Mastan as that was the point of debate between us.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

Really! I though you were even worse.

It does not surprise me the least.

But it does speak something about you and your psychology!

Yes i have. I have a military background, so stop showingoff about your military background

Military background and war are two different things.

Even a laskar in the Ordnance Depot has military background.

This line doesnt suite you after killing so many innocent kashmiries. Its like bagal main churi maoon main raam raam.

That is your view.

Obviously prompted by the fox who could not reach the grapes!

And you stop from being showing such emotions for pakistan.

Back seat soldier has nothing to do with Pakistan.

You mean i stop feeling proud about my army? ahh look who's talking

No, one should be proud of one's army, but one should also go out and do something worthwhile and not mere resort to sloganeering to show patriotism.

Really! How touching. Tears felt out of my eyes

Good to see you have something called tears and not mere hate.

I do not have your psychology of eternal hate, which seems to be your staple.

Its about time since indians started to realize about asian stability. Stop being mother india and rest assured there will be peace.

India started thinking about stability long back. It is the hatefilled like you, who are preventing reconciliation. Musharraf, from the Pakistan side, is trying to undertake reconciliation and you can see the hate filled posts here of some who want to pull him back.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

So you mean you should be allowed to carry on with your as usual BS about pakistan and how much you care about it and noone allowed to object. And i dont need lectures from an indian and that too specially about religion. And yes indeed islam is off peace but it also gives us full right to defend ourself against the enemy an enemy like india.
And before telling me about shame just look at your own collar since you are from the army and you will find out how many bloodspots you have.
And as for proving anything, i really dont have the time neither the energy to waiste it on you, since you the one of those kinds who like to just rant and that too without much knowning of anything. Dont let me remind you who was the one getting too excited about jumping between 2 pakistanies and placing his soft shoulder.So it was necessary for me to highlight it to Mr.Mastan as that was the point of debate between us.

You surely jest!

And anyway, given the standard of your posts, you have to take rebirth to come to the standard of either Mr Mastan or Mr Agnostic Muslim.

Their posts are patriotic but not blinded by hate and flawed logic, which is your sole signature!

Have you ever looked at life positively? That too would be man bites dog!

As far as my not knowing etc, your commentary is most unique!

Cheers!

Have a good day!

 

[IceCold]

You surely jest!

And anyway, given the standard of your posts, you have to take rebirth to come to the standard of either Mr Mastan or Mr Agnostic Muslim.

While i dont like to compare myself with other people here and surely there are people here who have more knowledge then me and i am always open for more knowledge but i wouldnt be taking this from someone who spells Quran by K and muslims with O.

Their posts are patriotic but not blinded by hate and flawed logic, which is your sole signature!

Thats your opinion and by the way if you read my post against Mastan sab, i never mentioned anything about him being not patrotic. So there isnt much different in my opinion about them, and as for you, your just some ill soilder who just couldnt let go without poking his noise into where it doesnt belong afterall an indian.

Have you ever looked at life positively? That too would be man bites dog!

Do you even know what life is? Killing so many and then thiking about life. You know there is a word shame, atleast have that alittle if not more.

As far as my not knowing etc, your commentary is most unique!

Its unique because i'm exposing your double standards here. I dont need to post all your asusual ranting here that you have done all along this forum on different threads. By the way indeed you only claim about knowining things and just by copy paisting things from the internet doesnt make you know everything.

Cheers!

Have a good day!

Its night here. So have a good night. Sleepwell.

 

[IceCold]

Back seat soldier has nothing to do with Pakistan.

And i think an indian should keep his @** out when two pakistanies are discussing.

No, one should be proud of one's army, but one should also go out and do something worthwhile and not mere resort to sloganeering to show patriotism.

And how did you come this conclusion that i'm not doing anything worth for my country. Though i donot need to prove anything to you.

Good to see you have something called tears and not mere hate.

Even hate brings tears.

India started thinking about stability long back. It is the hatefilled like you, who are preventing reconciliation. Musharraf, from the Pakistan side, is trying to undertake reconciliation and you can see the hate filled posts here of some who want to pull him back.

Since when did indians started to think? Stability my foot! care to explain why then all the proxywars against pakistan even srilanka? Suddenly indians started to cheer musharraf, have you forgotton he was the mastermind behind Kargil or atleast he was considered one by the indians? What happened now? Or is it because of the goodwill jesture shown by the indians to pakistanies.

 

[Tiki Tam Tam]

While i dont like to compare myself with other people here and surely there are people here who have more knowledge then me and i am always open for more knowledge but i wouldnt be taking this from someone who spells Quran by K and muslims with O.

A unique and profound reason indeed!

Though, it appears a bit weak and lame.

Thats your opinion and by the way if you read my post against Mastan sab, i never mentioned anything about him being not patrotic. So there isnt much different in my opinion about them, and as for you, your just some ill soilder who just couldnt let go without poking his noise into where it doesnt belong afterall an indian.

That is news.

And anyway, is Mr Mastan's post exclusive to you?

And what you were writing is for your personal consumption?

Don't you think private correspondence is through letters, e mails etc?

Do you even know what life is? Killing so many and then thiking about life. You know there is a word shame, atleast have that alittle if not more.

No, I don't know what life is, especially the type you seem to exult in!

Its unique because i'm exposing your double standards here. I dont need to post all your asusual ranting here that you have done all along this forum on different threads. By the way indeed you only claim about knowining things and just by copy paisting things from the internet doesnt make you know everything.

Copypasting is not the only thing I do. I follow it with a comments.

Apparently, you find such comments not registering in your mind and so you see it merely as copy pasting.

Do not let hate blind you to that extent.

Its night here. So have a good night. Sleepwell.

Thank you.

And Good night.

Sleep like a bug in a rug if you wish.