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Media Reports Wrong, Current ICJ Directive Not Legally Binding on Pakistan. No Stay Order.

Situation in India is bad and complex. There is a general superiority complex where they think they are a future super power so that gives them right to bully its neighbors and particularly Pakistan and when that doesn't happen then that results in an outrage in India. Then there is a party like BJP that came into power saying Congress and its Sikh PM are weak on Pakistan and did politics on the death of Indian soldiers and said when BJP would be in power no Indian soldier would die. Now BJP to save its face tries to do drama like surgical strike or this ICJ thingy. And nation with its busted and injured superiority complex accepts it wholeheartedly. India is a complex mix of various psychological issues including Stockholm syndrome.
There is no superiority complex just pure hate and Indian state is responsible for it also no one thinks fighting Pakistan is easy but i agree with you that they don't really have have a clue about actual costs of fighting Pakistan, Indians need to let-go of self preservation to have any permanent settlement with Pakistan and issue of ICJ is a drama but a clever one since India is hoping that Pakistan argues that ICJ holds no jurisdiction that is very important for Indian govt.
 
The first paragraph about Islamic history reminds me of 'dawn leaks' and 'panama leaks'

How Pakistani establishment tried to use the boiling pot with stones strategy and failed.

All the points you have mentioned becomes invalid when the sham trial is looked in humanitarian perspective. Not as a military or security matter. This also rules out that this is a bilateral issue because this is a human rights issue.

Mr. Yadav is not serving officer , he is a retired naval officer and a Bussiness man. On humanitarian grounds this case was taken for proceeding by icj.

Check this article

https://thewire.in/134185/what-to-expect-from-india-and-pakistans-consular-case-at-the-icj/

India’s ICJ move is a big swing and miss, and is only fooling the people of India
By Aniqa Sheikh 2 hours ago


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Pakistan is justified in its stance that Jadhav’s case fell within the realm of security, and subsequently, the request for consular access was declined on merits.

If you are an avid reader of Islamic history and have had the privilege of going through Jalalud Deen Suyuti’s famous compilation, Tareekhul Kuhalafa’, you must be well aware of a certain narration. It dates back to the era of the second Caliph Umar ibn al Khatab (ra) and narrates the ordeal of a young widow who used to struggle to make ends meet.

The narration has it that the unfortunate widow, in order to console her hungry and starving children, had devised an appalling strategy of deceit and deception. She used to place a pot full of water and rocks over a stove and as it would boil, she assured her young ones that a tempting meal is in the offing. The children, after having waited for a long time and exhausted due to continuous crying, would fall asleep and the widow would then silently turn the stove off. The Caliph, after observing their misery, came to their help one night and fixed a stipend for them from the state’s treasury.

I recalled this narration yesterday and have dedicated the preceding paragraph to it, simply because I feel our immediate neighbour is undergoing the same situation as the poor widow from the story narrated above.


On May 8, 2017, the Republic of India instituted proceedings against the Islamic Republic of Pakistan at the International Court of Justice (ICJ) in The Hague. The proceedings, as per the publically available information, call for an intervention in the matter relating to the conviction and sentencing of an Indian spy by the name of Commander Kulbhushan Jadhav. Through the said petition, India has sought to impugn the refusal of Pakistan vis-à-vis the providence of consular access to Jadhav and has pleaded to the ICJ to overturn the conviction/sentence awarded to its citizen on the pretext that it violates well established principles of basic human right laws.

Ever since the announcement of this litigation, the Indian press has been going crazy; it is heaping praises on the incumbent regime and is glorifying the move as stunning. Indian ministers can be seen patting each other’s backs on Twitter and the infamous defence experts sitting in television studios can barely restrain themselves from breaking out into tears of joy.

Cute as it may sound, the fact of the matter is that all these celebrations, cheers and tears are hollow and self-delusional in nature. The patent truth of the subject is that India’s ICJ move is a big swing and miss and I say this as a student of law.

After having deliberated upon the following contentions, I have come to the following conclusions:

1.The ICJ cannot unilaterally assume jurisdiction in a bilateral conflict unless and until both the disputing parties submit to its exclusive jurisdiction (Article 38 Rule 5 of the ICJ Rules). This submission varies from case to case and in this particular matter, it is highly unlikely and almost impossible that Pakistan would submit to the jurisdiction of the ICJ. Thus, the subject suit is destined to fall flat at the very preliminary stages.

2. India and Pakistan have a bilateral Consular Access Agreement which was ratified on May 21, 2008. Clause VI of this agreement explicitly states that in matters relating to security, the request for consular access shall be treated on merits. Thus, Pakistan is justified in its stance that Jadhav’s case fell within the realm of security, and subsequently, the request for consular access was declined on merits. ICJ does not reserve the authority to either revise or interpret the contents of this mutually agreed upon agreement.

3. In paragraph ‘e’ of the declaration made on March, 29, 2017, the government of Pakistan, with regards to the recognition of the jurisdiction of the ICJ, declared that the ICJ shall have no jurisdiction in matters pertaining to the national security of Pakistan. Furthermore, in paragraph ‘b’ of the same declaration, Pakistan asserted that a similar lack of jurisdiction shall prevail over matters which essentially fall within the domestic jurisdiction of Pakistan.

4. Similarly, the Indian declaration passed on September 15, 1974, in paragraph 1(2), declared that the jurisdiction of the ICJ shall extend to disputes involving all nation states other than the ones which are member states of the Commonwealth. Pakistan being a member of the Commonwealth is thus excluded from the list of nations against whom the jurisdiction of the ICJ can be invoked as per India’s request.

5. During the Simla Agreement in 1972, India and Pakistan had agreed that all conflicts arising between the two countries hereafter shall be resolved bilaterally. India has time and again asserted that this agreement bars both parties from approaching an international forum including the ICJ, for the resolution of an outstanding conflict. In 1999, when Pakistan approached the ICJ over the Atlantique incident, India successfully pleaded ICJ’s lack of jurisdiction on the basis of the Simla Agreement (Pakistan v India (2000) ICJ Rep 12). A similar view shall now be taken in this instant matter.

6. It is an established principal of international law that without exhausting available forums of appeal, outright remedies cannot be sought from an international court (Germany vs United States 2001 ICJ 466). Jadhav is yet to exhaust his right to appeal before the Military Court of Appeals and is further entitled to a mercy petition before the president of Pakistan. Without having adopted this available course of law, any exercise undertaken at an international level would be deemed as colourful.

7. India, by virtue of the institution of this case, has opened a flood gate which is destined to flow in its direction. Pakistan is now authorised to excavate the skeletons lying in the Indian closet and parade them at the International Litigation Forums.

In view of the foregoing issue, one is made to conclude that the theatrics played out at the ICJ were frivolous in nature and the television rating points generated were meant for the consumption of the domestic audience.

In order to placate the hyper-nationalist voters of the right-wing, the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP) led government has decided to boil some water and rocks on a hot stove and are expecting that its war hungry children will soon fall asleep.

However, this move is expected to cast long-lasting effects on India’s foreign policy and that too of an adverse nature. Meanwhile, we can easily say that this diplomatic offensive was a huge swing and a miss.



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Aniqa Sheikh
The author is a lawyer cum strategist who practices at Islamabad High Court and is momentarily perusing her MS in Peace & Conflict Studies at the NDU. She tweets @sheikh_aniqa

http://blogs.tribune.com.pk/story/4...miss-and-is-only-fooling-the-people-of-india/
 
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If you have read what ICJ have said in previous cases between India and Pakistan then you would have known that Pakistan can use excuse from previous verdict to hang Indian terrorist.

If you would have read about what previous case was and what governed the results, you would find the answer.
Every treaty has its defination of coverage. If a given treaty doesnt cover a given scenario, then ICJ comes into picture. I hope this helps.

Again no order here either. It is just Indian request upon which an order is yet to be given. Stop wasting our time please.

Kake that press release itself says that orders have been shared with pakistan.
 
Kake that press release itself says that orders have been shared with pakistan.

What has been shared with Pakistan is that India has requested ICJ regarding KBY. No orders.
 
There is no superiority complex just pure hate and Indian state is responsible for it also no one thinks fighting Pakistan is easy but i agree with you that they don't really have have a clue about actual costs of fighting Pakistan, Indians need to let-go of self preservation to have any permanent settlement with Pakistan and issue of ICJ is a drama but a clever one since India is hoping that Pakistan argues that ICJ holds no jurisdiction that is very important for Indian govt.

Well that hate also comes from superiority complex. Look at that muslim Pakistanis who were once our part acting all tough to us not accepting our hegemony. We are a billion plus and still they stand up to us.

As for ICJ. It is a blunder as per Indians too. Pakistan won't lose much but in fact can use it for its own cause.
 
Well that hate also comes from superiority complex. Look at that muslim Pakistanis who were once our part acting all tough to us not accepting our hegemony. We are a billion plus and still they stand up to us.

As for ICJ. It is a blunder as per Indians too. Pakistan won't lose much but in fact can use it for its own cause.
Hate doesn't come from superiority complex it comes out of ignorance.
 
Hate doesn't come from superiority complex it comes out of ignorance.

Ignorance can lead to superiority complex that eventually can lead to hate. In India's case it is working well.

I was watching a TV show and there was this daughter of some retired but senior military officer who was saying that we can beat Pakistan within an hour but it is because of parties like congress or "traitors" like Kashmiris that we are not doing that.

Now that is ignorance, superiority complex and hate all combined in one. :lol:
 
What has been shared with Pakistan is that India has requested ICJ regarding KBY. No orders.

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Means that President has informed that case has been put in and if court makes any order in later date, then it should be applicable. And for that to become applicable the current state of case has to be maintained. In simple words "STAY

I hope this makes sense.
 
If you would have read about what previous case was and what governed the results, you would find the answer.
Every treaty has its defination of coverage. If a given treaty doesnt cover a given scenario, then ICJ comes into picture. I hope this helps.



Kake that press release itself says that orders have been shared with pakistan.

Think what makes you happy but ICJ can not stop Pakistan from punishing a terrorist, and if Pakistan plays its cards well nothing will happen and Indian efforts will go in drain.
 
What this means is that we discredit India with its own tactics and then have a free reign in Kashmir. India is about to make sure that nobody listens to its future protestations. Pakistan pre-empted India by approaching the ICJ, which means that we have a tactic of our own and for once are being proactive rather than reactive. We anticipated what India would do and got in there first. Now that was a rare act of forward thinking by this Pakistan Govt. Very clever and a move designed to hang India with its own rope.
The "International Community" hate a nuclear armed Muslim country. Even if Bharat has no legal standing, they will do as much as they can to weaken Pakistan. They will listen to her protestations just to spite Pakistan.
 
Think what makes you happy but ICJ can not stop Pakistan from punishing a terrorist, and if Pakistan plays its cards well nothing will happen and Indian efforts will go in drain.

Trust me chances of India winning this case is negligible unless Pakistan makes mess on itself.
India wants Pakistan to deny ICJ jurisdiction, this will help govt in many ways.
1. They will say that they tried there best to save KY by going to International Court, but pakistan has denied the access. so pakistan is rouge nation. As its very well understood that getting KY out of Pakistan is not possible unless some back channel works.
2. The decision also opens up path for other hanging issues.

Still no order of any sort.

Check this post for more explanation.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/medi...stan-no-stay-order.494818/page-6#post-9468742


Please understand the language used here "Article 74, paragraph 4, of the Rules of Court stipulates that “pending the meeting of the Court, the President may call upon the parties to act in such a way as will enable any order the Court may make on the request for provisional measures to have its appropriate effects"

Itself means that you cannot hang KY until the case is dismissed or results are given, because if case is formed and comes under ICJ jurisdiction and if India wins the case then you would be required to hand over KY, and if you would have already hanged him, then you will not be able to fulfill the court orders :P

Unlike what we see in our local courts giving a "Stay Order", this more politically and bureaucratically correct way of saying same thing :)
 
Please understand the language used here "Article 74, paragraph 4, of the Rules of Court stipulates that “pending the meeting of the Court, the President may call upon the parties to act in such a way as will enable any order the Court may make on the request for provisional measures to have its appropriate effects"

Itself means that you cannot hang KY until the case is dismissed or results are given, because if case is formed and comes under ICJ jurisdiction and if India wins the case then you would be required to hand over KY, and if you would have already hanged him, then you will not be able to fulfill the court orders :P

Unlike what we see in our local courts giving a "Stay Order", this more politically and bureaucratically correct way of saying same thing :)

Oh God. you Indians are thick. Aren't you?

Let me quote from an Indian source now.

Yateesh Begoore: While many Indian news agencies have reported that the ICJ has issued an order staying the execution of Mr. Jadhav’s death sentence, that is not, in fact, the case. A provisional measure (which is, in some aspects, similar to “stay” under domestic law) can only be ordered by a bench of the ICJ sitting to hear the request for indication of provisional measures filed by India under article 41 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice – this has not happened.

http://www.news18.com/news/india/me...binding-on-pakistan-legal-expert-1397623.html

Got it?? There is no order and nothing legally binding on Pakistan right now at this moment.

Now read this part:

The development which is erroneously being reported as a stay is technically a request made by the President of the court under article 74(4) of the Rules of the Court. Under these Rules, the President of the court has the power to “call upon” a party to a dispute to not take any action which would prejudice the ability of the court to award a provisional measure. These requests are not per se legally binding upon the parties to which they are made.

http://www.news18.com/news/india/me...binding-on-pakistan-legal-expert-1397623.html

Your government has fooled you and lied to you. Your minister Susema swaraj lied when she said ICJ has issued some order of any sort.
 
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Trust me chances of India winning this case is negligible unless Pakistan makes mess on itself.
India wants Pakistan to deny ICJ jurisdiction, this will help govt in many ways.
1. They will say that they tried there best to save KY by going to International Court, but pakistan has denied the access. so pakistan is rouge nation. As its very well understood that getting KY out of Pakistan is not possible unless some back channel works.
2. The decision also opens up path for other hanging issues.




Please understand the language used here "Article 74, paragraph 4, of the Rules of Court stipulates that “pending the meeting of the Court, the President may call upon the parties to act in such a way as will enable any order the Court may make on the request for provisional measures to have its appropriate effects"

Itself means that you cannot hang KY until the case is dismissed or results are given, because if case is formed and comes under ICJ jurisdiction and if India wins the case then you would be required to hand over KY, and if you would have already hanged him, then you will not be able to fulfill the court orders :P

Unlike what we see in our local courts giving a "Stay Order", this more politically and bureaucratically correct way of saying same thing :)

India wants a quick war with Pakistan and they are looking for right moment for it, NS is pro India so in his time India may try to do something aggressive on LOC or possibly IB as NS may not allow harsh response, but this will be Indian miscalculation if they took this route.
 
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