Martyrdom in Hinduism

[illuminatidinesh]

So personal promises and oath is greater than Dharma ? sadly for you, Hinduism disagrees.

Oath by a Nazi or by Bhishma is not greater than the need to practice and protect Dharma. Otherwise the Nazi's too swore an oath to always unquestionably serve their leader, Why the double standards for the Nazi's and not Bhishma ?

Are you aware what 'Hitler Oath' is ? No personal oath is greater than Dharma.

That is one of the primary teachings of Mahabharata.

Why are u so much obsessed with Nazi's? U know what i will compare only FM Rommel somewhat to anyone like Bhisma. ( He had respect for enemy soldiers and treated them fair even against Hitler and his cronies.) Stop comparing the greats of Bhisma to these goons. Bhisma took an oath to sacrifice things , selfless, even before Pandvas and Garuvas were born, that is to protect the kingdom and that was his Dharma and he stood by it till the end even though it was hi against his will. U know what U seem to behave like self proclaimed Godmans who are so many found in our country,stop preaching your own version of religion. Hinduism is not what u say , in fact no one preach that.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

No. Everyone chooses their own path. That is Free Will, You do not need the Mahabharat to tell you that.

Krishna represented the path of Dharma in Mahabharata. Bhisma, Kirpacharya, Drona, all chose the path of Adharma by choosing to honor their own vows, promises and sense of honor before practicing Dharma.

Bhisma himself agreed that he was on the wrong side (Adharma), there is no need for me to set it for him. The Mahabharata clearly shows us that. You have the whole thing screwed on backwards.

Bhisma Kripacharya and Dhrona all choose what is Dharma to them.... That was to stand by the kingdom. Bhisma never was on Adharma s side, all his life he followed his Dharma. He regretted to fighting with the Gavruvas and against pandavas but he couldnt forsake his Dharma. Such is the beauty of his life, pity u are screwing it for yourself.
U know what if Arjun and Dhuryodan had wanted Krishna ' s place would have been exchanged in the history. ( Krishna for Dhuryodan and Krishna's army for Arjun)

 

[shiv]

i dont believe they are handing out professional tags to retards these days !

 

[Chronos]

In Bhagavad Gita Lord Krishna states, "Either being slain you will attain the heavenly worlds or by gaining victory you will enjoy the earthly kingdom; therefore O Arjuna, rise up and fight."

1. Martyrdom is considered noble in Hinduism. From ancient times till today Hindu soldiers have gone into battle even with full knowledge of death to achieve martyrdom. In the struggle against the British many known and unknown Hindu youth embraced martyrdom. Bhagat Singh, Pritilota Wadedar, Surya Sen, Khudiram Bose, and countless others laid down their lives willingly. In the 3rd Battle of Panipath the Maratha chiefs similarly fought on knowing the end was sure death. But the most remarkable among the Hindustani race have been the valiant Rajputs whose history is full of ultimate sacrifices. My intention is not to belittle others, but we must move on with the main theme.

2. It has now become an accepted fact that only the Muslims have been encouraged in their religion to welcome "shahadat" / martyrdom. The Western Christian Civilization (WCC) media have brain-washed entire humanity to perceive Muslims as "suicide bombers" / terrorists, etc because The Holy Quo'ran promises heavenly abode to the martyrs.

3. The fact is: Every religion encourages its followers to fight for the right cause, and promises reward in the next life. A soldier who has fought in a battle actually will know how important religion/faith is at the moment he is bayonet-charging or is being charged. That is the reason all armies/armed forces employ religious teachers/pastor/etc

Well, first of all the entire story of Mahabharata Krishna is seen as utilitarian. Sacrificing for the greater good and a pragmatic strategist.

There was no clear cut black and white, and this made him interesting as a person infused with divinity. Compare and contrast with Indians today, he was a much more nuanced and a realist than Indians give him credit for. He was also no alien to Machiavellian power plays when it suited him.

If you were to ask Krishna today this same question, he would baulk at the idea of martyrdom, and will offer a realist and a much more grounded approach.

 

[Chronos]

I do read religious texts particularly related. to Hinduism, but for me to believe in any of them has to based on reasoning and facts.

But lot of scientific advancements happened during 16th century on wards after Europeans came to India points to the fact, that western thought evolved from Hindu texts.

Regarding atom,earth and related evolution etc....etc...

Apart from that I like the way the battles and wars took place in Mahabharata ,Ramayana and the events which help and guide people.

Regarding martyrdom , a guy will be given entry into heaven based on his karma. I am a firm believer of principle of karma.

The Greeks already had a cursory idea of atoms about 2000 years ago. us saying

 

[scorpionx]

@asad71:

There is a huge difference between fighting an war inspite of knowing the fatal consequences and blowing up oneself killing innocents. Kindly don't mix up things in such a horrible manner.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Why are u so much obsessed with Nazi's? U know what i will compare only FM Rommel somewhat to anyone like Bhisma. ( He had respect for enemy soldiers and treated them fair even against Hitler and his cronies.) Stop comparing the greats of Bhisma to these goons. Bhisma took an oath to sacrifice things , selfless, even before Pandvas and Garuvas were born, that is to protect the kingdom and that was his Dharma and he stood by it till the end even though it was hi against his will. U know what U seem to behave like self proclaimed Godmans who are so many found in our country,stop preaching your own version of religion. Hinduism is not what u say , in fact no one preach that.

Another Idiot who has come to spread stupidity in this world.

It was not me who spoke about Nazi, but the other poster to which I replied giving the same example. If you were slightly more intelligent, you would have realized it. But considering this is PDF we have to deal with our share of fools.

I don't care what FM Romel thought or what FM Ayub Khan thought. Peddle that stawman agrument to someone else. (preferable someone as dumb as you)

Bhisma took the oath so that his father Shantanu could marry and have sex with the daughter (Satyavati) of a fisherman. LOL.

Bhishma was a person who never performed a selfish action in his whole life. He was mighty, learned and respected. But he too ended up fighting on the side of adharma, and came to a tragic end. He was actually an impediment to the establishment of a righteous kingdom. Why? Because he put his personal oath on a pedestal and made it the focus and obsession of his life.

That oath was that he would unquestioningly follow and do the bidding of whoever was the king of Hastinapur (Delhi). This vow, he would never break as long as he lived, even when it involved fighting his own beloved nephews who he knew had done nothing wrong.

Sticking to a vow is important, especially today when people make promises and break them the very next day. But the Mahabharata demonstrates that if attachment to a personal vow becomes an insurmountable impedement that prevents one from doing what is clearly the right, and ends up making a person serve evil, such a vow should be discarded and set aside.

Bhishma put his personal vow above anything else, even when that vow became an instrument of evil.

Good Intentions count for NOTHING, Only Actions count. In other words, the path to HELL is paved with good intentions.

It is better your stop parading your stupidity and learn something from people who know. Try and use Google for more than searching for ****.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Bhisma Kripacharya and Dhrona all choose what is Dharma to them.... That was to stand by the kingdom. Bhisma never was on Adharma s side, all his life he followed his Dharma. He regretted to fighting with the Gavruvas and against pandavas but he couldnt forsake his Dharma. Such is the beauty of his life, pity u are screwing it for yourself.
U know what if Arjun and Dhuryodan had wanted Krishna ' s place would have been exchanged in the history. ( Krishna for Dhuryodan and Krishna's army for Arjun)

And the stupidity never ends.

You are redefining the entire Mahabharata. LOL.

You are just too dumb to realize that the ENTIRE Mahabharata is about the Triumph of Dharma over Adharma. The rest of the characters are only settings to that main theme.

The Pandava's were not fighting for a kingdome, but to protect and defend Dharma. Lead and Guided by Krishan. Krishna himself was not a fighter but a charioteer, a person who guides the path and walks with you. Krishna becoming the charioteer itself is symbolic of how if you follow the path of Dharma, god himself guides your path and becomes your companion. LOL.

Save your pity for someone who cares for it. Preferable for all those who thanked your post.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Well, first of all the entire story of Mahabharata Krishna is seen as utilitarian. Sacrificing for the greater good and a pragmatic strategist.

There was no clear cut black and white, and this made him interesting as a person infused with divinity. Compare and contrast with Indians today, he was a much more nuanced and a realist than Indians give him credit for. He was also no alien to Machiavellian power plays when it suited him.

If you were to ask Krishna today this same question, he would baulk at the idea of martyrdom, and will offer a realist and a much more grounded approach.

WRONG.

One of the Moral of Mahabharat and even Ramayana is that you need to practice Morality only with those who are Moral themselves.

If the opponent is Immoral, then it is permissible of the defender of Dharma to respond in kind. Practicing Morality too is NOT more important than protecting Dharma.

But in other situations in life where you do not face challenges from immoral people or do not have to fight, practice of Morality is the practice of Dharma.

It defines the moral code for those who choose to FIGHT. Its a warriors code.

It is pretty much Black and White, unless of course you do not wish it to be. LOL.

 

[Chronos]

WRONG.

One of the Moral of Mahabharat and even Ramayana is that you need to practice Morality only with those who are Moral themselves.

If the opponent is Immoral, then it is permissible of the defender of Dharma to respond in kind. Practicing Morality too is NOT more important than protecting Dharma.

But in other situations in life where you do not face challenges from immoral people or do not have to fight, practice of Morality is the practice of Dharma.

It defines the moral code for those who choose to FIGHT. Its a warriors code.

It is pretty much Black and White, unless of course you do not wish it to be. LOL.

Doesn't matter to me. I am pretty much an Atheist anyway, so I read the Bhagvat Gita I read the bible and the Quran. As fictional books with good morals that you can pick and choose from. Other than that, I don't take religion all that seriously. In the end of the day, it pretty much boils down to 'My football team is better than yours.'

I got no beef with you man. And I see you have addressed the meat of my issue.

 

[Srinivas]

The Greeks already had a cursory idea of atoms about 2000 years ago. us saying

But in Hindu texts the description is eloborate, Greeks believe that earth is flat in Hinduism the earth is "bhugol" a sphere and the measurements are also aptly mentioned in Hindu texts.

 

[Chronos]

But in Hindu texts the description is eloborate, Greeks believe that earth is flat in Hinduism the earth is "bhugol" a sphere and the measurements are also aptly mentioned in Hindu texts.

The Mayan civilization also had a concept of zero around the time Indians did.

The reason I picked your quote is that I think you might have overplayed what Indians civilization did in terms of the west achieving enlightenment and industrialisation. It was, in my opinion a perfect storm of renaissance, colonialism which brought in opulence and much needed competition from other major European powers.

I would even argue that it is people like Kant, John Locke, Voltaire who helped bring about this.

Hell, I think the separation of religion and state had much to do with this.

 

[Srinivas]

The Mayan civilization also had a concept of zero around the time Indians did.

The reason I picked your quote is that I think you might have overplayed what Indians civilization did in terms of the west achieving enlightenment and industrialisation. It was, in my opinion a perfect storm of renaissance, colonialism which brought in opulence and much needed competition from other major European powers.

I would even argue that it is people like Kant, John Locke, Voltaire who helped bring about this.

Hell, I think the separation of religion and state had much to do with this.

I do not bother about religion or what it does in every day human life, But One thing is sure, ancient Indians knew much more that what other civilizations know about science, astronomy, sex, ayurveda etc...etcc.

The moment Europe came in contact with India, their philosophy and scientific thinking changed, They studied India literature and scriptures. I have opened a thread related to "India civilization and its contribution to world" I will post the link soon.

In short some of the base of atomic science , astronomy etc has Indian roots.

Indians used "0" they even used algebra, trigonometry when europe was in dark ages and following roman numericals whose greatest numerical is 1000.

 

[Manvantaratruti]

Doesn't matter to me. I am pretty much an Atheist anyway, so I read the Bhagvat Gita I read the bible and the Quran. As fictional books with good morals that you can pick and choose from. Other than that, I don't take religion all that seriously. In the end of the day, it pretty much boils down to 'My football team is better than yours.'

I got no beef with you man. And I see you have addressed the meat of my issue.

If Hinduism does not matter to you, you should STFU about it and not prance around spreading canards about it.

You can read DC Comics, Marvel universe or bible and worship tom cruise, that is your problem. You seem to think we care a fcuk. We don't. I am not your shrink.

Hindus take their religion seriously and their Dhamra equally seriously. Learn to give respect.

 

[illuminatidinesh]

Another Idiot who has come to spread stupidity in this world.

It was not me who spoke about Nazi, but the other poster to which I replied giving the same example. If you were slightly more intelligent, you would have realized it. But considering this is PDF we have to deal with our share of fools.

I don't care what FM Romel thought or what FM Ayub Khan thought. Peddle that stawman agrument to someone else. (preferable someone as dumb as you)

Bhisma took the oath so that his father Shantanu could marry and have sex with the daughter (Satyavati) of a fisherman. LOL.

Bhishma was a person who never performed a selfish action in his whole life. He was mighty, learned and respected. But he too ended up fighting on the side of adharma, and came to a tragic end. He was actually an impediment to the establishment of a righteous kingdom. Why? Because he put his personal oath on a pedestal and made it the focus and obsession of his life.

That oath was that he would unquestioningly follow and do the bidding of whoever was the king of Hastinapur (Delhi). This vow, he would never break as long as he lived, even when it involved fighting his own beloved nephews who he knew had done nothing wrong.

Sticking to a vow is important, especially today when people make promises and break them the very next day. But the Mahabharata demonstrates that if attachment to a personal vow becomes an insurmountable impedement that prevents one from doing what is clearly the right, and ends up making a person serve evil, such a vow should be discarded and set aside.

Bhishma put his personal vow above anything else, even when that vow became an instrument of evil.

Good Intentions count for NOTHING, Only Actions count. In other words, the path to HELL is paved with good intentions.

It is better your stop parading your stupidity and learn something from people who know. Try and use Google for more than searching for ****.

Calling names, Pity nobody taught u decency . I wonder what has PDF got to do with your temper, for us all u look more of a fool. Self proclaimed fool.
Guys has anyone got doubts in Mahabarat please ask this guy. Am done with my share.