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Marines issue: Italy may recall ambassador to India

he is in our embassy and you have no way to get him out of there. You dont know italy. Its top thing in news here and evryone stands for them. Any PM who would allow our military staff to be in prison in a 3rd world country will be kicked out of office, just as Monti was. Then the populists take over. We wont betray our military staff. Nobody is left alone and behind.

Please dont betray, please take away your culpable homicide accused. You must be proud on criminals?

EU blocked india free trade talks and relations are on the ground right now. Your military couldnt even defeat pakistan and you live in mass poverty. come back when you have your rape issues under control.

anyways this gets nonsense here, debating with people who i would not even shake hands with in reality. We have one marine already home and other will follow. Thats last thing i say here about this nonsense.
Lol, FTA was not even possible before, not until 2018-19. And it doesnt effected at all with some Italian criminals, who even dont know what are there rules of engagement.

Give me any source where it says, EU block FTA because of Marines issue. Dont talk shit.

While I have been critical of the decision to treat the Italian marines this way, I have to admit that I find your position completely bogus. The action of your marines was either incompetent or reckless & murderous. Whatever they are, Heroes they are not. There have been statements of the rest of the crew that make your argument sink completely & absolutely no argument put forward that might make any sense. The only argument the Italians ever had was one of jurisdiction. Shooting unarmed fishermen without warning is hardly an act of bravery.

So, how you want to treat some criminals? That India put them in air-conditioned jail, just because they are foreigners?

You forget, Indian Govt. previous stance, no special treatment to any criminal?
 
So, how you want to treat some criminals? That India put them in air-conditioned jail, just because they are foreigners?

You forget, Indian Govt. previous stance, no special treatment to any criminal?

In case you don't know, they are getting special treatment. No one is in jail. There is a reason for that. That's because they are their country's soldiers. My point is simple & has remained so right from the beginning. We set a dangerous precedent for our own soldiers while damaging relations with a friendly country. Italy doesn't start & end with Sonia Gandhi. This should never have been allowed to drag on for this long.
 
In case you don't know, they are getting special treatment. No one is in jail. There is a reason for that. That's because they are their country's soldiers. My point is simple & has remained so right from the beginning. We set a dangerous precedent for our own soldiers while damaging relations with a friendly country. Italy doesn't start & end with Sonia Gandhi. This should never have been allowed to drag on for this long.
You contradicting yourself in this argument, so how you want to treat them?

On other note, so any European can do any crime in India, and we let go because Italy doesnt end up with Sonia Gandhi?
 
You contradicting yourself in this argument, so how you want to treat them?

On other note, so any European can do any crime in India, and we let go because Italy doesnt end up with Sonia Gandhi?

Don't deliberately misconstrue my statement. This is about this two Italian soldiers. Neither this government nor the previous one wants to or wanted to really pursue this matter, it is the Supreme Court that is the key here. Other than a Presidential pardon, there is nothing much that is possible now. Unless the court that has been set up agrees that India had no jurisdiction or decides quickly on the matter & transfers the marines to Italy.
 
Oh let them then. Itlians are the only ones claiming EU supports this and that, all EU major countries from Germany to UK to France have greater relationships at stake than some shitty marines issue with the Italians. They're nobody in the real world.


They actually might. The issue is different here. The marines are just a showpiece See Italians elected a bunch of dumb morons to lead them and this kept putting them in crises after crises. Then when this happened, some dumb-f**k there decided he'll gain political mileage by 'publicly liberating' the marines. That's why this is so public- the french, for instance would have muted and taken the whole thing behind the scenes. These morons are trying to play hookie with their domestic audience at our expense.

There are many sources which agree with you.

You are right, that was an internal Indian issue, an Indian punished by Indian court.

But this case seems differnt. I agree.

Are you ignorant? Kasab was a terrorist and non Indian...........
 
he is in our embassy and you have no way to get him out of there. You dont know italy. Its top thing in news here and evryone stands for them. Any PM who would allow our military staff to be in prison in a 3rd world country will be kicked out of office, just as Monti was. Then the populists take over. We wont betray our military staff. Nobody is left alone and behind.
So.basically just by holding on to the marines India can cause regime change in Italy - interesting.... We can choose if we like your prime minister or not
 
In case you don't know, they are getting special treatment. No one is in jail. There is a reason for that. That's because they are their country's soldiers. My point is simple & has remained so right from the beginning. We set a dangerous precedent for our own soldiers while damaging relations with a friendly country. Italy doesn't start & end with Sonia Gandhi. This should never have been allowed to drag on for this long.
1) They were not working as their country's soldiers at the time - they were privately contracted armed guards for a private shipping company. In other words, hired muscle. If they were soldiers, it would be an act of war.

2) Our soldiers are not going to mindlessly shoot fishermen in the Mediterranean sea or elsewhere. The only instances in which they may shoot fishermen would be near India's territorial waters, from a coast guard ship. The only instances in which they may shoot anybody suspected of being pirates would be from an Indian naval ship, and only after every precaution is exhausted. I think our soldiers are pretty safe. (BTW, good luck to anybody trying to arrest IN personnel from an Indian warship.)

3) True that it shouldn't drag on for so long - but then, our courts have always been notoriously slow, even to our own citizens. After the dirty tricks that the Italians tried to play, I don't think our courts are in any mood to expedite the legal process for their sake.

The only contentious issue is one of jurisdiction - where the incident happened, and whether that spot was within our jurisdiction. Both parties have contradicting positions on that, and that is up to the courts to determine. Apart from that, it was a reckless act of murder.

They are heroes who defended our oil tanker
Defended your tanker from fishing boats? Not heroes, just drunk and idiotic gunmen. Maybe that's the sort of person you hero worship, because of your mafia culture. Not the rest of the world.

They acted professional and took out a danger for the ship. They are regarded heroes and thats what they are.
They acted unprofessionally (unless their profession was the mafia), and they were incompetent, bungling maniacs who deserve to be in jail. And that is where they will end up.

As i said one is already home and the other will follow. We wont allow a country without toilets to harass our military and pride.
Not even your prime minister can keep up such idiotic promises, as we learnt. So you expect us to take your promises seriously? LOL.

The two marines have already left your military prideless, by their actions.

EU blocked india free trade talks and relations are on the ground right now.
As I said before, those two drunks are not even worth Italy to break relations. EU doesn't care if they rot in Tihar jail. This is as risible as your previous "threat" of NATO waging war for the sake of your two drunk idiots.

Your military couldnt even defeat pakistan and you live in mass poverty.

Actually we did defeat Pakistan every time, and guess what? Italy cannot even wage war against Pakistan, as I pointed out before. India id way above your weight class. You cannot enter the Indian ocean with hostile intent, without being eviscerated. Unless you ride on the coattails of NATO (read USA), you do not exist as a military power.

come back when you have your rape issues under control.

Italy's per capita rape is six times higher than ours. LOL. You just don't realize it because you are safe from being raped, with that inbred look you have. Even rapists have some standard.

We have one marine already home and other will follow. Thats last thing i say here about this nonsense.

That's the last thing your ex PM said, before he had to eat humble pie and send back the drunks. He became the ex PM because he made unfulfillable promises. But then an internet warrior has no accountability.

Your incompetent and crappy marines murdered - and they will pay the price.

No one is interested in what you think about a 'court' or not. Your job is OBEDIENCE. Stop dicking around and do as you're told.

That's what these state police constables are telling them:

208c14ec-acb6-4311-8304-03bccaab9c96news.ap.org_r620x349.jpg

"Get into your cage like a good boy!"

Italian-Marines-March-1-PTI.jpg

"Weekly shower time is over, back to your cell, boys!"

272373-marine700.jpg

"No more potty time, back to your cell!"



As for @MarkusS ' lie earlier that they never spent any time in an Indian jail:

India%20Italian%20Marines-1.jpg

"Who let the dogs out..."


So much for his boasts about his military's pride and honour - knowing nothing about the judicious use of force, shooting unarmed fishermen, and then being caged and bossed around by state police constables - that's how much honour they have, and that itself is way more than they deserve.

What about this pic, @MarkusS ? Flatly contradicting your earlier lie that they did not spend a day in any Indian jail. And do enjoy the high honour and dignity of your drunk marines. Can't fight a war even against 3rd world countries, and have to get medals by shooting fishermen (as you claim yourself.)
 
In case you don't know, they are getting special treatment. No one is in jail. There is a reason for that. That's because they are their country's soldiers. My point is simple & has remained so right from the beginning. We set a dangerous precedent for our own soldiers while damaging relations with a friendly country. Italy doesn't start & end with Sonia Gandhi. This should never have been allowed to drag on for this long.

They're not in jail because the judgement has not been passed and it's still in trial phase. They are eligible for bail during this phase.
 
They're not in jail because the judgement has not been passed and it's still in trial phase. They are eligible for bail during this phase.


True but not necessarily the norm in such cases. Nor is a holiday outside the country either for Christmas or a supposed medical procedure? Difficult to argue otherwise.
 
True but not necessarily the norm in such cases. Nor is a holiday outside the country either for Christmas or a supposed medical procedure? Difficult to argue otherwise.

The Christmas visit etc. are extra considerations shown by the government and courts to facilitate good relations. Obviously those things won't be given in other normal cases. Once the verdict is given out though, I don't think any such favors will be given. Technically they are not guilty until they are proven guilty. Technically they are presumed until the verdict is given.
 
The Christmas visit etc. are extra considerations shown by the government and courts to facilitate good relations. Obviously those things won't be given in other normal cases. Once the verdict is given out though, I don't think any such favors will be given. Technically they are not guilty until they are proven guilty. Technically they are presumed until the verdict is given.

That is always the case, and how it should be. Presumed innocent until proven guilty. The trouble in this case is that they cannot be allowed to leave the country, as our law enforcement agencies would then have no jurisdiction to bring them back. And they cannot be jailed for too long, since they are presumed innocent until convicted. So this is the best we can do, let them stay at the embassy. If he was an Indian citizen on bail, he could have gone home for Xmas. In this case, the Italian ambassador gave a sovereign guarantee that they would return, which is why it was allowed. We know what followed.

I'm not sure about what would be done once a guilty verdict is given. We have an agreement with Italy to let them be jailed in Italy - but given their past behavior, can we expect them to honour the agreement and keep them in jail for the whole term? If not, can we keep him here? It's a tough one. @Bang Galore - what do you think?
 
I'm not sure about what would be done once a guilty verdict is given. We have an agreement with Italy to let them be jailed in Italy - but given their past behavior, can we expect them to honour the agreement and keep them in jail for the whole term? If not, can we keep him here? It's a tough one. @Bang Galore - what do you think?

The government will get rid of the problem & hope the Italians find a quiet way of doing what they will. There is zero interest to prolong this. Not an ideal scenario but this one has a international & bilateral component & like the Latvian pilots were given a Presidential pardon in the Purulia arms case under Russian pressure, this case too will get a burial. One way or the other.
 
The government will get rid of the problem & hope the Italians find a quiet way of doing what they will. There is zero interest to prolong this. Not an ideal scenario but this one has a international & bilateral component & like the Latvian pilots were given a Presidential pardon in the Purulia arms case under Russian pressure, this case too will get a burial. One way or the other.

Do you think this is an issue that will go away quietly, after so much passion has been roused on both sides? If the Italians are allowed to go away without trial, the Indian media and public would be up in arms. If they are sentenced, sent to Italy and then pardoned there, I'm not sure it can be kept quiet either - there will be public celebrations there, and public outrage here. This is not a case that will fade away from public memory.

In the Purulia arms drop case, we did not have Indian families mourning and crying, for the loss of their loved ones. A murder is very different from an arms drop case, for emotional reasons. The latter may be more intriguing, but the former rouses primal emotions. The people of Kerala have the image of those families etched in their minds, and want vengeance. The people of India are unlikely to forget the faux pas that the Italian govt tried to pull off. It is precisely because there is a bilateral component, that it cannot be brushed under the carpet - our people do not take kindly to an act of perceived betrayal by a foreign country.

Maybe you are right, I don't know - I'll wait and see what happens.
 
Do you think this is an issue that will go away quietly, after so much passion has been roused on both sides? If the Italians are allowed to go away without trial, the Indian media and public would be up in arms. If they are sentenced, sent to Italy and then pardoned there, I'm not sure it can be kept quiet either - there will be public celebrations there, and public outrage here. This is not a case that will fade away from public memory.

In the Purulia arms drop case, we did not have Indian families mourning and crying, for the loss of their loved ones. A murder is very different from an arms drop case, for emotional reasons. The latter may be more intriguing, but the former rouses primal emotions. The people of Kerala have the image of those families etched in their minds, and want vengeance. The people of India are unlikely to forget the faux pas that the Italian govt tried to pull off. It is precisely because there is a bilateral component, that it cannot be brushed under the carpet - our people do not take kindly to an act of perceived betrayal by a foreign country.

Maybe you are right, I don't know - I'll wait and see what happens.

And this case must not be forgotten or pardonned.

This should be continued as long as possible and humiliate the Italians into submission. They must be kept where they belong, i.e under our foot.
 

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