Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[A.P. Richelieu]

I said , SE TENDER will be cancelled once if LCA TEJAS ABLE TO INTEGRATED THE MORE Indigenousation in respect of critical components like RADAR, EW SUITE ETC . 2018 END IS THE DEADLINE FOR IT.
You can understand that there are many things which can't be share on Government domain.

IAF
Presently deal has an option of 18 jets, hope you know about that.
It'll be cleared at the time when delivery of first batch started.
http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/defense/2017-01-12/more-rafales-india-still-likely?amp

We're discussing about IAF not IN.
you're are trying to derail the topic.
Tender already floated and 5 contenders Responded along with Saab with its paper-plane Sea GRIPEN

The delay in decision about SE tender is actually due to the new integration of AESA , EW etc on TEJAS. Everything is not shared in public media.
http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2017/07/india-wont-ink-single-engine-fighter.html?m=1

moreover, PDF is not the actual stage to have such informations. You may sign-up IDF for more credible information.

Where I claimed that?

First India has no official RFI and nothing is equivalent to it in formal.
And regarding the cancellation, it has a condition.


If Indian DPSU failed to fulfill the condition regarding LCA than you will see a formal RFI under MII.
We have requirement for point Defense jet or Interceptor, not a deep Strike fighter. And LCA fits in that scenario very much.
F-16 has only one majors reason for rant is that it is used by our Enemy forces.
Everybody is free to share his/her views about anything in India (not on PDF) and they are share their views about f-16 or GRIPEN. And than you have to decide , on which info you need to believe.


I also shared a source which states that Saab has requested India to co-develop GaN AESA . It makes some sense.


I never said that GRIPEN is incompatible with Indian missiles and bombs. Whereas I said IAF don't have any Saab manufactured MISSILE or bomb.


But here you failed to back your claim by an credible source.


Are you stupid or mentally dumb.
You are unable to understand English sentences than its not my problem.

Let India to decide about its requirements.
India has its own Indigenous option . $31 million never be equal to $85 million.


Your previous posts (which also don't have any credible source ) can't be considered as a source.


NOTE: Don't try put your words in my mouth.
You are trying to make many false claims on my behalf. If you have anything which I said ever than please quote that post despite of creating rant over it, raised due to your loose hands on language understanding.

You'll get better understanding about these facts on Indian Defense forums whereas you're trying to find them of this biased Pakistani Defense forum, where anyone can be banned anytime.

In Short, You have very little sources to back Your claims.

SAAB has offered India to participate in the finalizing of the SAAB GaN radar.
It is an offer of ToT. Not a request for help.
SAAB can complete the design on their own, but will only do so once they have an order.

 

[Taygibay]

You'll get better understanding about these facts on Indian Defense forums whereas you're trying to find them of this biased Pakistani Defense forum, where anyone can be banned anytime.

Hum! Mate? Check this from the page of members with most positives :

Joe Shearer
PROFESSIONAL, Male, from Hyderabad
Messages: 13,802 Ratings: +89 / 23,119 / -0
​

Catch my drift? Not anyone, man and I picked my example as you noticed.
It's up to each of us to behave so as to avoid bans or even causing turmoil.

And getting any understanding from Indian fora is very unlikely and endless,
IMHoO!

This said, you are trying to make someone else make sense and have been
at it for a while now. Philosophers and teachers will tell you it may not happen?

Go for a walk, man, enjoy yourself ...
and have a great IRL?
GL, Tay.

 

[Sinnerman108]

I shared many facts from the actual ground from MoD.

None of the both f-16 and GRIPEN will going to induct in IAF , once if the ongoing test will get success.

More RAFALEs will be there for sure.

You must have to wait and watch....


____________________________________________________________
____________________________________________________________

Rafale Pilot using the Fighter Sphere tablet.

Sphere is an integrated Electronic Flight Bag (EFB) from Dassault Aviaition. EFBs are electronic information management devices that helps flight crews perform flight management tasks more easily and efficiently with less paper. It is a general purpose computing platform intended to reduce, or replace, paper-based reference material often found in the pilot's carry-on flight bag, including the aircraft operating manual, flight-crew operating manual, and navigational charts (including moving map for air and ground operations).

In addition, the EFB can host purpose-built software applications to automate other functions normally conducted by hand, such as performance take-off calculations.

 

[X_Killer]

In Short, You have very little sources to back Your claims.

SAAB has offered India to participate in the finalizing of the SAAB GaN radar.
It is an offer of ToT. Not a request for help.
SAAB can complete the design on their own, but will only do so once they have an order.

Baseless argument...
No official offer about ToT is made from Saab's side.
If you believe than please back it with credible data (which you didn't do in either reply)

Hum! Mate? Check this from the page of members with most positives :

Joe Shearer
PROFESSIONAL, Male, from Hyderabad
Messages: 13,802 Ratings: +89 / 23,119 / -0
​

Catch my drift? Not anyone, man and I picked my example as you noticed.
It's up to each of us to behave so as to avoid bans or even causing turmoil.

And getting any understanding from Indian fora is very unlikely and endless,
IMHoO!

This said, you are trying to make someone else make sense and have been
at it for a while now. Philosophers and teachers will tell you it may not happen?

Go for a walk, man, enjoy yourself ...
and have a great IRL?
GL, Tay.

I was the the who was banned for 2 times due to sharing some technical information about jf-17.
Anyways, I don't want to ruin this thread by these biased posts.


Joe Shearer
PROFESSIONAL, Male, from Hyderabad
Messages: 13,802 Ratings: +89 / 23,119 / -0
And this guys is a false-flagger and a Bangladeshi not Indian.
Check out, one of his reply.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/harsh-mander-commits-sedition.446516/

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Baseless argument...
No official offer about ToT is made from Saab's side.
If you believe than please back it with credible data (which you didn't do in either reply)

https://www.stratpost.com/saab-adds-gan-aesa-co-dev-to-make-india-gripen-pitch/

Sweden and Saab have offered to co-develop its Gallium Nitride AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar with India. In meetings held with a visiting Indian defense ministry committee this week, which included Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha — and following on from briefings in New Delhi last month — Saab officials have pitched the idea of joint development of the technology to India, if India were to select the Gripen for production in India, via Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Make in India initiative.

Lars Tossman, Head of Saab’s Airborne Surveillance business unit told visiting Indian media last month, “We talked in India – we said if India would choose Gripen, then we would be willing to share this technology and co-develop it. We have a lot to contribute but we’re willing to share that.”

 

[X_Killer]

https://www.stratpost.com/saab-adds-gan-aesa-co-dev-to-make-india-gripen-pitch/

Sweden and Saab have offered to co-develop its Gallium Nitride AESA (Active Electronically Scanned Array) radar with India. In meetings held with a visiting Indian defense ministry committee this week, which included Indian Air Force (IAF) Chief of Air Staff Air Chief Marshal Arup Raha — and following on from briefings in New Delhi last month — Saab officials have pitched the idea of joint development of the technology to India, if India were to select the Gripen for production in India, via Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s Make in India initiative.

Lars Tossman, Head of Saab’s Airborne Surveillance business unit told visiting Indian media last month, “We talked in India – we said if India would choose Gripen, then we would be willing to share this technology and co-develop it. We have a lot to contribute but we’re willing to share that.”

Now, I have no doubt that you are unable to under English.
1. ToT and co-development are two different terms.
2. As you said that Saab will offer GRIPEN with its GaN Radar than what the hell is this co-development.

3. Please read what I mentioned before along with source, does it mean anything else.

Saab still waiting for the expertise in radar tech and want India to co-develop the same.
https://www.stratpost.com/saab-adds-gan-aesa-co-dev-to-make-india-gripen-pitch/

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/make...-gripen-any-other.448850/page-37#post-9756070

Ahh! You used the exactly the same link which I shared.
You should consult a good psychiatrist and believe me you will be fine soon.

Q.E.D.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Now, I have no doubt that you are unable to under English.
1. ToT and co-development are two different terms.
2. As you said that Saab will offer GRIPEN with its GaN Radar than what the hell is this co-development.

3. Please read what I mentioned before along with source, does it mean anything else.

https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/make...-gripen-any-other.448850/page-37#post-9756070

Ahh! You used the exactly the same link which I shared.
You should consult a good psychiatrist and believe me you will be fine soon.

Q.E.D.

SAAB has the technology to build a GaN fighter radar.
They have GaN AESA FOR Giraffe and EriEye ER today for delivery.
The Fighter version needs to be customized for a particular aircraft.

To make it fit the Gripen E, further development is needed.
SAAB is offering to share the technology they have to India.
This will cut the development time by 5-10 years.
How is that not ToT?

 

[X_Killer]

SAAB has the technology to build a GaN fighter radar.
They have GaN AESA FOR Giraffe and EriEye ER today for delivery.
The Fighter version needs to be customized for a particular aircraft.

To make it fit the Gripen E, further development is needed.
SAAB is offering to share the technology they have to India.
This will cut the development time by 5-10 years.
How is that not ToT?

Without completing its development, how is it possible to deliver GaN AESA for SE tender?
This will become another reason of delay.

I think you didn't heard about that DRDO already developed GaN modules and continuing their development to refine the tech.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Without completing its development, how is it possible to deliver GaN AESA for SE tender?
This will become another reason of delay.

I think you didn't heard about that DRDO already developed GaN modules and continuing their development to refine the tech.

SAAB believes that the radar is far enough in development that Indias target for 2023 production delivery can be met. Derivatives can be fit into future Tejas, FGFA and AMCA.
A GaN module is not a radar.
Also having a module, does not neccessary mean it is a good module (or bad).
SAAB, having stuff in production is ahead of the pack, and co-development with SAAB
will save India a lot of time.

Now, Your video does not support Your claim that DRDO have developed GaN modules.
This is what the video is saying about GaN.
"DRDO is establishing this future technology"
This means that they have not even started.

SAAB might be 10 years ahead of them.

 

[Taygibay]

SAAB might be 10 years ahead of them.

Since SAAB does not own a foundry for its GaN elements, probably!
But by that count, India can copy SAAB and LockMart and just buy
up-to-date ones of the market until theirs are top notch ... and when
it happens, they'll have their own production line?

A GaN module is not a radar.

Very right! Then again, India has already bought 2 AESA radars, see?
So they may not need a third esp. knowing the FGFA bring its own.

Tay.

 

[X_Killer]

SAAB believes that the radar is far enough in development that Indias target for 2023 production delivery can be met. Derivatives can be fit into future Tejas, FGFA and AMCA.
A GaN module is not a radar.

Still you are living in your fantasy dreams.
As I said , DRDO is now refining the GaN Tech. And for your kind information that Without GaN modules there is nothing like GaN AESA .
Only these modules creates a difference between them.
And atleast we have our own GaN foundry which is still missing at SAAB.

Also having a module, does not neccessary mean it is a good module (or bad).

Sticking a Saab template will not make it a manufacturer.
Saab is only a integrator not a manufacturer.

SAAB, having stuff in production is ahead of the pack, and co-development with SAAB
will save India a lot of time.

Any proofs?

Now, Your video does not support Your claim that DRDO have developed GaN modules.
This is what the video is saying about GaN.
"DRDO is establishing this future technology"
This means that they have not even started.

You are totally dumb head.
I don't have any cure for this.
SAAB also claimed GRIPEN E is a future fighter jet, does it mean the same.

SAAB might be 10 years ahead of them.

Saab is 10 years ahead and you are 100 years ahead, but only in your dreams.
Congratulations, LOL

Sinc-upSAAB does not own a foundry for its GaN elements, probably!
But by that count, India can copy SAAB and LockMart and just buy
up-to-date ones of the market until theirs are top notch ... and when
it happens, they'll have their own production line?



Very right! Then again, India has already bought 2 AESA radars, see?
So they may not need a third esp. knowing the FGFA bring its own.

Tay.

This dumb guy has no idea of anything.

I'm already fed-up

 

[ziaulislam]

No, no and no again. The MMRCA was NEVER a single-vendor situation, EFT was declared L2.


Gripen E won't even have IOC until 2021/2, how can it possibly be in a position to take part in trails in India? The IAF isn't interested in testing an experimental aircraft- it wants a fully matured and war ready platform, if SAAB is foolish enough to send a pre-IOC a/c to test in India the results will be predictable...



That was one of the reasons...


What is the AESA by the way, the one from SELEX Galileo? If so then the Gripen has NO chance as SALEX's parent company (Finmeccanica) is blacklisted in India.


Mental gymnastics, it is effectively the same thing or at least the outcome is the same- India is not progressing with this farce.



Not if there is a single vendor situation and even SAAB's ToT may not be sufficient.



No I did not, I never linked more MKIs to the SE jet project.


Ifs and buts, Trump will continue limping on and there are no guarentees he won't be re-elected.

+ it is the US Congress that has consistently rejected Indian ToT demands.


I am applying common sense and logic, you are Swedish with the Gripen in your profile pic, I think I understand your motivations and your wishes....


Again, common sense- India didn't spend billions just to customise 36 Rafales- that woud equate to >$50 MILLION per Rafale, at least 90 more Rafales will come to the IAF just to make this economical.



There is no reason more won't be purchased, India always orders in batches- once the Mk.1A is in service the picture will change.

You make absolute sense. What doesnt make sense why was this whole thing floated in first place. Was india deliberately trolling LM and gripen

 

[Papa Dragon]

You make absolute sense. What doesnt make sense why was this whole thing floated in first place. Was india deliberately trolling LM and gripen

There is a high possibility that India maybe trolling LM and SAAB. F-16 is dead as they denied ToT which is expected from the Americans and given their history of backstabbing, there is a high possibility to deny us spares or use the possibly rumored kill switches on their export version F-16s if we ever go against a country backed by the Yankees which India and I guess even Pakistanis have been skeptical about.

Gripen may have better prospects in this regard but it still has it's share of reservations as IAF has never been interested in untested platforms except for the FGFA as it is a 5th gen. Unless extensive ToT and complete production and assembly operations take place under MII with Indian manufactured components, I don't see the Gripen coming.

Co-producing 2-3 squadrons of Rafale under MII and focusing on the Kaveri engine along with Safran to develop 90KN, 110KN and 125KN variants which can be used on the Tejas Mk2, AMCA, Su-30MKI and FGFA respectively is the best option that India could go with.

 

[X_Killer]

There is a high possibility that India maybe trolling LM and SAAB. F-16 is dead as they denied ToT which is expected from the Americans and given their history of backstabbing, there is a high possibility to deny us spares or use the possibly rumored kill switches on their export version F-16s if we ever go against a country backed by the Yankees which India and I guess even Pakistanis have been skeptical about.

Nice tried but you're sharing old new. Better to go for latest one.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-report-on-f-16-tech-transfer-to-indi-440209/

Gripen may have better prospects in this regard but it still has it's share of reservations as IAF has never been interested in untested platforms except for the FGFA as it is a 5th gen. Unless extensive ToT and complete production and assembly operations take place under MII with Indian manufactured components, I don't see the Gripen coming.

You might be correct but it clearly depends on LCA TEJAS.
You may seek to my previous post for details.

Co-producing 2-3 squadrons of Rafale under MII and focusing on the Kaveri engine along with Safran to develop 90KN, 110KN and 125KN variants which can be used on the Tejas Mk2, AMCA, Su-30MKI and FGFA respectively is the best option that India could go with.

Kaveri for Su-30MKI is only a speculation
But you overhyped by adding FGFA to this list.

 

[Papa Dragon]

Nice tried but you're sharing old new. Better to go for latest one.
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-report-on-f-16-tech-transfer-to-indi-440209/

You might be correct but it clearly depends on LCA TEJAS.
You may seek to my previous post for details.

Kaveri for Su-30MKI is only a speculation
But you overhyped by adding FGFA to this list.

It is the senate that calls the shots but not LM. There is only a possibility to transfer the assembly line to India with all the components being manufactured in the US itself as that has been Trump's primary agenda during is election campaigning to keep the jobs in US. The report also states that US denied transfer of critical technologies to S.Korea which is a full time long-term ally of the US.

I am aware that Kaveri for Su-30 MKI is only a speculation but given the relatively lower service life and unreliability issues with the Russian engines, it a always a better option to go with an engine co-developed with the French. While PAK-FA is currently using a derivative of the AL-41F1 and the izdeliye 30 is being developed, I just offered my opinion that India may look into the prospect of installing Kaveri in the long run and maintain uniformity in our fighter jets for ease of maintenance, service and spares. Also, I'm pretty sure Kaveri would be developed indigenously with locally procured and manufactured components, so that we don't have to rely on other countries for critical components and spares during times of need.