Make In India - Fighter Jet musings - News, Developments, Updates - F16,F18, Gripen, Any other

[X_Killer]

It is the senate that calls the shots but not LM. There is only a possibility to transfer the assembly line to India with all the components being manufactured in the US itself as that has been Trump's primary agenda during is election campaigning to keep the jobs in US. The report also states that US denied transfer of critical technologies to S.Korea which is a full time long-term ally of the US.

There are only national interests in the world, there is nothing like friendship and Ally.
If they get their interests fulfilled than they will share ToT otherwise no chance...

I am aware that Kaveri for Su-30 MKI is only a speculation but given the relatively lower service life and unreliability issues with the Russian engines, it a always a better option to go with an engine co-developed with the French. While PAK-FA is currently using a derivative of the AL-41F1 and the izdeliye 30 is being developed, I just offered my opinion that India may look into the prospect of installing Kaveri in the long run and maintain uniformity in our fighter jets for ease of maintenance, service and spares. Also, I'm pretty sure Kaveri would be developed indigenously with locally procured and manufactured components, so that we don't have to rely on other countries for critical components and spares during times of need.

Hope your speculations may come true but I'll not going to make firm statement about it because it is still in development with french offsets.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Since SAAB does not own a foundry for its GaN elements, probably!
But by that count, India can copy SAAB and LockMart and just buy
up-to-date ones of the market until theirs are top notch ... and when
it happens, they'll have their own production line?



Very right! Then again, India has already bought 2 AESA radars, see?
So they may not need a third esp. knowing the FGFA bring its own.

Tay.

The important thing is the design.
The foundry can be outsourced.
Apple does not have a foundry, yet they get advanced products using their designs.

Still you are living in your fantasy dreams.
As I said , DRDO is now refining the GaN Tech. And for your kind information that Without GaN modules there is nothing like GaN AESA .
Only these modules creates a difference between them.
And atleast we have our own GaN foundry which is still missing at SAAB.


Sticking a Saab template will not make it a manufacturer.
Saab is only a integrator not a manufacturer.

Any proofs?

You are totally dumb head.
I don't have any cure for this.
SAAB also claimed GRIPEN E is a future fighter jet, does it mean the same.



Saab is 10 years ahead and you are 100 years ahead, but only in your dreams.
Congratulations, LOL




This dumb guy has no idea of anything.

I'm already fed-up

http://aviationweek.com/defense/counter-stealth-radar-key-growing-aew-market

http://saabgroup.com/sv/Media/news-...ld-class-sensor-package-for-indian-tejas-lca/

"Saab’s solutions are based on the latest state-of-the-art technologies and COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) available. The AESA fighter radar and electronic warfare units have no ITAR-restricted (Internationally Traffic in Arms Regulations) components, due to the high degree of Saab in-house developed and manufactured building blocks. Using contemporary technology provides the adaptability and growth potential needed to stay ahead. Technologies are re-used between variants and platforms in order to minimize Life Cycle Cost (LCC)."

As for DRDO "refining" GaN, you have no sources for that,
only sources for an intention to start working with GaN.

Gripen E has been developed for the last decade, mostly using the Gripen NG demonstrator,
so it is at a much further state than Your unsourced fantasies about Indias GaN competence.

 

[surya kiran]

As for DRDO "refining" GaN, you have no sources for that,
only sources for an intention to start working with GaN.

Not start work. To start production. Its not DRDO which will do it, but IISc. Current radar being tested with 700 trms.

"The proposed foundry is supposed to be developed around an existing facility for producing gallium nitride transistors on silicon wafers and the development is supposed to take place under the supervision of associate professor Srinivasan Raghavan."

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...or-production-of-wonder-nano-material/754727/

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Not start work. To start production. Its not DRDO which will do it, but IISc. Current radar being tested with 700 trms.

"The proposed foundry is supposed to be developed around an existing facility for producing gallium nitride transistors on silicon wafers and the development is supposed to take place under the supervision of associate professor Srinivasan Raghavan."

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...or-production-of-wonder-nano-material/754727/

Much better source, but still it only mentions producing transistors in prototype volumes.
The article says initial funding for the foundry was approved about one month ago,
which means it is going to take time to get it running.
A normal semiconductor fab takes at least 2-3 years to get running from approval.
The claim by @X_Killer that India has a foundry is just another fantasy.

Still nothing mentioned in the link what is done with those GaN transistors.
The UTTAM Radar is GaAs based, not GaN based.
If You want to claim it is GaN, show some source.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Meanwhile, the idea that the US has denied ToT on F-16 is now proven FALSE.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-report-on-f-16-tech-transfer-to-indi-440209/
=========
"A recent report claiming the US denied critical F-16 technology to the government of India is erroneous, the US Air Force and F-16 manufacturer Lockheed Martin say."
...
"Any media reports claiming the US has denied or approved the transfer of F-16 technology to India are simply not true,” Lockheed says. “The government of India is still determining its single-engine fighter requirements and government-to-government discussions between India and the USs are ongoing. No decisions have been made yet regarding technology transfer.”
=========
So the question was if the US has approved ToT for F-16, and the answer was no.

Using broken logic, Indian keyboard warriors believed this meant that the US had denied ToT.
End Result:

Separate thread started for unknown reasons.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/lock...-technology-transfer-is-still-ongoing.512012/

 

[X_Killer]

The important thing is the design.
The foundry can be outsourced.
Apple does not have a foundry, yet they get advanced products using their designs.

You guys have only speculated concept of GaN AESA radar for fighter jets. Till now there is nothing available on ground.

http://aviationweek.com/defense/counter-stealth-radar-key-growing-aew-market

DRDO AEW&C has upper hand over your so called eyerie which you guys sold to PAF.

http://saabgroup.com/sv/Media/news-...ld-class-sensor-package-for-indian-tejas-lca/

UTTAM AESA & EW suite will be tested on LCA PV-1 by mid 2018. And later as soon as GaN will get ready , it will be tested and fabricated oN UTTAM AESA.

.Saab’s’s solutions are based on the latest state-of-the-art technologies and COTS (commercial-off-the-shelf) available. The AESA fighter radar and electronic warfare units have no ITAR-restricted (Internationally Traffic in Arms Regulations) components, due to the high degree of Saab in-house developed and manufactured building blocks. Using contemporary technology provides the adaptability and growth potential needed to stay ahead. Technologies are re-used between variants and platforms in order to minimize Life Cycle Cost (LCC)."

You can get your answer once you find the Saab's content on GRIPEN C/D because they are active jets.

As for DRDO "refining" GaN, you have no sources for that,
only sources for an intention to start working with GaN.

Video shared by me has the final GaN module which will be further refined. I'm unable to share that video in Swedish .
For your kind information, the video was from Official DRDO library.

Gripen E has been developed for the last decade, mostly using the Gripen NG demonstrator,
so it is at a much further state than Your unsourced fantasies about Indias GaN competence.

Another baseless argument.
I can understand your frustration about the increased probability about SE TENDER cancellation which is still not Officially raised.

Meanwhile, the idea that the US has denied ToT on F-16 is now proven FALSE.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/a...-report-on-f-16-tech-transfer-to-indi-440209/
=========
"A recent report claiming the US denied critical F-16 technology to the government of India is erroneous, the US Air Force and F-16 manufacturer Lockheed Martin say."
...
"Any media reports claiming the US has denied or approved the transfer of F-16 technology to India are simply not true,” Lockheed says. “The government of India is still determining its single-engine fighter requirements and government-to-government discussions between India and the USs are ongoing. No decisions have been made yet regarding technology transfer.”
=========
So the question was if the US has approved ToT for F-16, and the answer was no.

Using broken logic, Indian keyboard warriors believed this meant that the US had denied ToT.
End Result:

Separate thread started for unknown reasons.
https://defence.pk/pdf/threads/lock...-technology-transfer-is-still-ongoing.512012/

When India finalized to have SE jet tender, you will be able to find that LM offered something better than Saab.
That will probably a out of the box offer.
They already signed basic contract with TASL which has a good experience in Aviation manufacturing, whereas on the other hand , Saab is in talks with ADANI which has no experience in Aviation sector.

That make a difference between both manufacturers on Indian Ground.

If SE tender will be there, than there will be a probability ratio of 70:30 between LM and Saab. Because SEjets are intended to replace old migs which will be completely retired by 2024,

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

You guys have only speculated concept of GaN AESA radar for fighter jets. Till now there is nothing available on ground.


DRDO AEW&C has upper hand over your so called eyerie which you guys sold to PAF.


UTTAM AESA & EW suite will be tested on LCA PV-1 by mid 2018. And later as soon as GaN will get ready , it will be tested and fabricated oN UTTAM AESA.


You can get your answer once you find the Saab's content on GRIPEN C/D because they are active jets.


Video shared by me has the final GaN module which will be further refined. I'm unable to share that video in Swedish .
For your kind information, the video was from Official DRDO library.

Another baseless argument.
I can understand your frustration about the increased probability about SE TENDER cancellation which is still not Officially raised.


When India finalized to have SE jet tender, you will be able to find that LM offered something better than Saab.
That will probably a out of the box offer.
They already signed basic contract with TASL which has a good experience in Aviation manufacturing, whereas on the other hand , Saab is in talks with ADANI which has no experience in Aviation sector.

That make a difference between both manufacturers on Indian Ground.

If SE tender will be there, than there will be a probability ratio of 70:30 between LM and Saab. Because SEjets are intended to replace old migs which will be completely retired by 2024,

So suddenly the SE tender is alive? You proclaimed is a fake just a few postings ago.
The module shown is a GaAs module.
Will have GaN... But You don't have it...
You are a waste of time.
Now on ignore...

 

[X_Killer]

So suddenly thedevelopmentsis alive? You proclaimed is a fake just a few postings ago.
The module shown is a GaAs module.
Will have GaN... But You don't have it...
You are a waste of time.
Now on ignore...

You're not more than a psycho with very little knowledge about Indian developments.
You have only one vision "GRIPEN is best among all available jets in the world" and this is nothing more than a freaking dream. You should know about that.

Good Day

 

[randomradio]

Much better source, but still it only mentions producing transistors in prototype volumes.
The article says initial funding for the foundry was approved about one month ago,
which means it is going to take time to get it running.
A normal semiconductor fab takes at least 2-3 years to get running from approval.
The claim by @X_Killer that India has a foundry is just another fantasy.

Still nothing mentioned in the link what is done with those GaN transistors.
The UTTAM Radar is GaAs based, not GaN based.
If You want to claim it is GaN, show some source.

India already has a GaN foundry. It's going to be expanded pretty soon in a $450M project.

http://www.financialexpress.com/ind...or-production-of-wonder-nano-material/754727/

By 2018, we will be producing GaN based T/R modules in large scale. We need it for multiple projects, particularly ground based radars.

As for Uttam, the prototype versions may be GaAs, but the production version will be GaN. I mean it doesn't make a significant difference whether you use GaAs or GaN, you simply retrofit the antenna in an hour or two. Switching the PESA to AESA on Rafale takes only 2 hours. We only need to make LCA compatible for AESA radars. Right now the LCA Mk1 doesn't have space for liquid cooling.

The important thing is the design.
The foundry can be outsourced.
Apple does not have a foundry, yet they get advanced products using their designs.

That's right.

Saab may not have a foundry, but in case India selects Saab's radar, then India can manufacture GaN modules for both India's needs as well as Sweden's.

 

[Taygibay]

The important thing is the design.
The foundry can be outsourced.
Apple does not have a foundry, yet they get advanced products using their designs.

Again, you managed to be perfectly right and totally useless both at once!

You - "SAAB might be 10 years ahead of them."
Me - "Since SAAB does not own a foundry for its GaN elements, probably!"

Probably after since means that it is the case, that I know that it works
that way. As much is even present in my next sentence with SAAB &
also Lockheed-Martin given as examples of corps doing w/o a foundry.

I suppose you came back to that point in order to ignore the real one I
directed at you which is that an Indian entity could do that too. That is
where it turns to fanboyism because most of the replies in the last few
pages are of the same weight. Hundreds of lines of people ignoring that
they agree on true facts while fighting over speculations ...

Enthusiasm is fine but you don't hire a dervish to craft a manuscript.

I would suggest a soothing walk as for X-k but hey, feel free to keep at it.
A thread with India-fighter-jet-musings in its title wasn't likely to be smooth
going and reality based in any case; twas doomed from the onset!
Darn PariK! LOL

Keep calm and have a great day one & all, Tay.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

Again, you managed to be perfectly right and totally useless both at once!

You - "SAAB might be 10 years ahead of them."
Me - "Since SAAB does not own a foundry for its GaN elements, probably!"

Probably after since means that it is the case, that I know that it works
that way. As much is even present in my next sentence with SAAB &
also Lockheed-Martin given as examples of corps doing w/o a foundry.

I suppose you came back to that point in order to ignore the real one I
directed at you which is that an Indian entity could do that too. That is
where it turns to fanboyism because most of the replies in the last few
pages are of the same weight. Hundreds of lines of people ignoring that
they agree on true facts while fighting over speculations ...

Enthusiasm is fine but you don't hire a dervish to craft a manuscript.

I would suggest a soothing walk as for X-k but hey, feel free to keep at it.
A thread with India-fighter-jet-musings in its title wasn't likely to be smooth
going and reality based in any case; twas doomed from the onset!
Darn PariK! LOL

Keep calm and have a great day one & all, Tay.

The issue is timing.
India can start a GaN module design, but you only know how long time it takes, after it works.
Having a design which has been proven to work may gain a number of years.
That is the selling point.

The Indian GaN transistors may have definciencies which only show up after they have been
tested in practice. What if they die after 6 months?
That will easily add a year to the schedule.

If India continues on its own and the transistors work, they must be producable, and yield is difficult in GaN. This may require iterations, and years to the schedule.

I remember a True BiPolar CMOS chip designed in 1989.
It was 15x15 mm which is huge.
I talked to the design manager, and he asked if I could guess how many good chips
per 6" wafer was expected.
When I hesitated, he continued saying that it was the wrong question.
The correct question was how many wafers were needed to produce one good die,
and the answer was around 1k wafers @ $1600, so each chip would cost $1,6M to produce.
The project was cancelled...

If India makes a fab, and will get crappy yield, they will not be able to afford
to build GaN radars, until yield is improved.

 

[Taygibay]

And my point was that they can outsource until then,
just as good corps do even for 30 years for the parts.

They'll be learning about lobes and beams and so on
in the meanwhile.

Gone riding, Tay.

 

[randomradio]

The issue is timing.
India can start a GaN module design, but you only know how long time it takes, after it works.
Having a design which has been proven to work may gain a number of years.
That is the selling point.

The Indian GaN transistors may have definciencies which only show up after they have been
tested in practice. What if they die after 6 months?
That will easily add a year to the schedule.

If India continues on its own and the transistors work, they must be producable, and yield is difficult in GaN. This may require iterations, and years to the schedule.

I remember a True BiPolar CMOS chip designed in 1989.
It was 15x15 mm which is huge.
I talked to the design manager, and he asked if I could guess how many good chips
per 6" wafer was expected.
When I hesitated, he continued saying that it was the wrong question.
The correct question was how many wafers were needed to produce one good die,
and the answer was around 1k wafers @ $1600, so each chip would cost $1,6M to produce.
The project was cancelled...

If India makes a fab, and will get crappy yield, they will not be able to afford
to build GaN radars, until yield is improved.

We already have GaN modules for fighter AESAs.

Anyway--
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ns-vital-tejas-1a-project-117072501231_1.html
Letter says national resources being wasted in importing AESA radar, though DRDO had developed one

India's indigenous radar will begin flight tests next year. So it's still under development, but they have made a lot of progress on it and it should be at a similar readiness level as Saab's new radar. But Israel has the advantage here.

 

[A.P. Richelieu]

And my point was that they can outsource until then,
just as good corps do even for 30 years for the parts.

They'll be learning about lobes and beams and so on
in the meanwhile.

Gone riding, Tay.

Yes, they can outsource the GaN transistors, but designing the modules and make it work
in the system is going to take time
Getting simple 2,4Ghz modules into production can take years.
This is more difficult.

We already have GaN modules for fighter AESAs.

Anyway--
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ns-vital-tejas-1a-project-117072501231_1.html
Letter says national resources being wasted in importing AESA radar, though DRDO had developed one

India's indigenous radar will begin flight tests next year. So it's still under development, but they have made a lot of progress on it and it should be at a similar readiness level as Saab's new radar. But Israel has the advantage here.

And where is the source for having GaN modules?

The difference is that SAAB has a working radar with a lot of features & modes,
which has been flying in the Gripen C.
They can build on that experience for the backend.
I doubt Israel has an advantage.

 

[X_Killer]

We already have GaN modules for fighter AESAs.

Anyway--
http://www.business-standard.com/ar...ns-vital-tejas-1a-project-117072501231_1.html
Letter says national resources being wasted in importing AESA radar, though DRDO had developed one

India's indigenous radar will begin flight tests next year. So it's still under development, but they have made a lot of progress on it and it should be at a similar readiness level as Saab's new radar. But Israel has the advantage here.

He is a GRIPEN fanboy and doesn't want to hear anything against it.

Also, he claims that Saab will begin its full scale Production before IOC & FOC.