‘Major surprises’ expected in talks with militants, ISI

[nirreich]

Not this time

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Your reply is a complete whitewash.

The US assistance to Pakistan included much more than just covering the expenses of the conflict. Besides, the US erased Pakistan's economic depth and helped it to get credit and international assistance from IMF, etc.

You do not deny that in return Pakistan helped terrorists to kill American soldiers in Afghanistan.

The Taliban was supposed to be defeated by now if not for its sanctuaries in Pakistan by ISI. This is the only reason that it is still a factor in Afghanistan - because Pakistan avoided doing what it promised following 9/11. Not to mention the hiding of OBL and his blood thirsty gang of Al-Qaeda.

Read through the link I posted - it details Pakistan's POV very well.

Secondly, Pakistan has lost an estimated $45 to $60 billion in economic losses related to its participation in the WOT - US aid does not even come close to covering that.

 

[fd24]

Read through the link I posted - it details Pakistan's POV very well.

Secondly, Pakistan has lost an estimated $45 to $60 billion in economic losses related to its participation in the WOT - US aid does not even come close to covering that.

The losses incurred are truly huge. What cant be quantified is the economic loss our nation has had to put up with as regards to the halt in our economy as so much time and effort has gone into this. Conservatively speaking this figure could be doubled as we will never be able to quantify potential earnings we would have made if we were allowed to focus on other matters.

 

[nirreich]

Read through the link I posted - it details Pakistan's POV very well.

Secondly, Pakistan has lost an estimated $45 to $60 billion in economic losses related to its participation in the WOT - US aid does not even come close to covering that.

Most of Pakistan's economic losses are the result of the Army and ISI policy to nurture any lunatic ready to terrorise India or Afghanistan: their assistance in training, weaponry, funding and recruiting for terror organisations. And of course the blind eye and no supervision over Madrassas as a breading ground for more Islamic radicals.

This is the Frankenstein Pakistan created, so Pakistan should pay the price and not others.

 

[karan.1970]

That thread details the breakdown of funds received from the us, and points out where US claims regarding aid to Pakistan are false - I have yet to see a detailed rebuttal of the Pakistani claims.

Who would need to rebut that claim.. Someone would bother to only if Pakistan is going ahead and claiming damages based on that or basing a financial transaction/law suite on that basis..Else its just some eco-political mumbo jumbo for consumption of the masses

I never said 'all the funds' - and no, Pakistan is not getting reimbursed for 'wear and tear'.

If that was the need, Pakistan govt (which was a military govt and not the usual civilian scrapegoat) should have baked that into the agreements made with NATO. Cant crib based on a bad deal made by the Pakistan establishment at that time..

 

[RazPaK]

Pakistan need not worry about TTP anymore. That era is over, especially since ISI has been picking up TTP member's family members and blackmailing them for intel and to attack who they want.

 

[regular]

After hearing from the US that the Afghan Talibans are not their enemies this proves that the whole Afghan war is a fake war. US must be protecting the Afghan Taliban leaders and especially Mullah Omer.....The world shold know that the US has been lying to the whole world to kill innocent Afghan pplz for the last eleven years by now..... They need to be prosecuted for their crimes against humanity within the international court of justice......

 

[rohailmalhi]

Most of Pakistan's economic losses are the result of the Army and ISI policy to nurture any lunatic ready to terrorise India or Afghanistan: their assistance in training, weaponry, funding and recruiting for terror organisations. And of course the blind eye and no supervision over Madrassas as a breading ground for more Islamic radicals.

This is the Frankenstein Pakistan created, so Pakistan should pay the price and not others.

Oh really ISI created them and no one else right

Things were excellent whatsoever before America decided to jump in to Afghanistan. and our decision to help this BS WOT.We shouldnt have gone there on first place.We could be on better place today.

Dont tell us that America has helped us ,actually they have made it worst for us.

 

[nirreich]

Oh really ISI created them and no one else right

Things were excellent whatsoever before America decided to jump in to Afghanistan. and our decision to help this BS WOT.We shouldnt have gone there on first place.We could be on better place today.

Dont tell us that America has helped us ,actually they have made it worst for us.

ISI nurtured radical Islamic groups n Pakistan long before and after 9/11 and with no connection to the US.

The best decision Musharraf made is to join the US in WOT. Pakistan owe him for that.

 

[karan.1970]

Things were excellent whatsoever before America decided to jump in to Afghanistan. and our decision to help this BS WOT.We shouldnt have gone there on first place.We could be on better place today.

I don't think you had any options.. There was that infamous bomb to stone age phone call that Musharraf ji had to bear...

 

[Irfan Baloch]

I just wonder what surprise they are talking about? last month they abducted 15 FC soldiers and said that they were going to decapitate them and send their pieces as a punishment for fighting America's war.

the only favourable surprise in my opinion is that they surrender their leadership and stop the fighting in pakistan and Afghanistan

---------- Post added at 04:12 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:10 AM ----------

Till yesterday, no such ceasefire has happened, even yesterday 1 or 2 FC guys got martyred in an IED attack near Miranshah.

Just news, nothing in practical.

exactly
thats what I mean

so much misinformation arround these days.

 

[Safriz]

dont forget...there are two terrorist factions in Pakistan....CIA and TTP..
may be the IEDs are CIA planted.

 

[AgNoStiC MuSliM]

Who would need to rebut that claim.. Someone would bother to only if Pakistan is going ahead and claiming damages based on that or basing a financial transaction/law suite on that basis..Else its just some eco-political mumbo jumbo for consumption of the masses

The claims made by Pakistan are not 'eco-political mumbo-jumbo', they are pretty straightforward facts and figures regarding the amount of US funds that have been actually disbursed (vs merely promised/allocated), and the break-up of those funds - how much of the money from the US is for reimbursements of logistical support and expenses borne by Pakistan in support of US operations in Afghanistan, how much is in the form of military aid to boost PakMil capacity, how much is in the form of civilian aid for various projects, and how much is just a 'lump sum' to be used wherever it is needed.

The above claims should be pretty easy to refute, yet most Western commentators choose to ignore them and merely harp on the propaganda of '20 billion USD in aid to Pakistan'.

If that was the need, Pakistan govt (which was a military govt and not the usual civilian scrapegoat) should have baked that into the agreements made with NATO. Cant crib based on a bad deal made by the Pakistan establishment at that time..

I agree that Pakistan should have included reimbursements for 'wear and tear' into is agreement with the US, and Musharraf has to be faulted for not projecting Pakistan's interests more forcefully than he did.

That said, Pakistan is within its rights to demand compensation for the damages to the Pakistani economy and infrastructure that have occurred because of its cooperation with the US in the WoT.

---------- Post added at 07:14 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:12 PM ----------

Most of Pakistan's economic losses are the result of the Army and ISI policy to nurture any lunatic ready to terrorise India or Afghanistan: their assistance in training, weaponry, funding and recruiting for terror organisations. And of course the blind eye and no supervision over Madrassas as a breading ground for more Islamic radicals.

This is the Frankenstein Pakistan created, so Pakistan should pay the price and not others.

Pakistan's losses are the result of supporting the US invasion and occupation of Afghanistan - the US invasion and occupation was the catalyst for many of these groups to take up arms against the Pakistani military and State that they saw as supporting an unjust war and occupation.

 

[idune]

Pakistan scoffs at US-Taliban talks

To say Iran has an important role to play in Afghanistan will be stating the very obvious. But when it is the Pakistani FO spokesman who says that, the statement gains in content. The two countries have been described as ‘rivals’ on the Afghan chessboard.

Now, that is precisely what the Pak FO spokesman Abdul Basit has been quoted as saying in Islamabad earlier today: “Establishing sustainable security and stability in Afghanistan is impossible without Iran’s role. To establish security and reinvigorate Afghanistan, Iran must be given due attention and must be trusted, because pushing the trend of peace and establishing durable security and stability without Iran’s partnership is impossible.”

No doubt, it is a very meaningful statement at this point in time when the United States and Qatar are speeding up the talks with the Taliban and are even doing kiteflying that the former Taliban commander-in-chief Mohammed Fazl could be released from Guantanamo prison as a CBM by the Barack Obama administration.

Nobody has bothered to ask Iran even for an opinion. Tehran may have certain views about Fazl, who probably was involved in the execution of 8 Iranian diplomats in cold blood in Mazar-i-Sharif in 1998 when the Taliban captured the city. Tehran also may have some strong views about the dubious role that Qatar has been playing in the Middle East as the US’s ‘Islamic poodle’.
The fact of the matter is that the US venture to have the Taliban open an office in Qatar is in reality a dagger aimed at the Pakistani heart. The US estimates that once the Taliban are ‘liberated’ and brought under Qatari inducement, ISI’s influence over them will wane.That is sound logic. Pakistan is hard-pressed to annoy Qatar, which is a generous Arab patron.

But by introducing the ‘Iran factor’ at this point, it can ensure that the best-laid US plan becomes a non-starter. For Iran, the core issue in Afghanistan is the US occupation — and Pakistan can count on that.

Indian Punchline - Reflections on foreign affairs

 

[Zarvan]

‘Major surprises’ expected in talks with militants, ISI tells senators
By Irfan Ghauri
Published: December 30, 2011

ISLAMABAD: In an unusual three-hour meeting behind closed doors, Inter-Services Intelligence (ISI) chief Shuja Pasha and his deputies briefed a Senate panel on the country’s war against terror policy, which they claimed is going through a “holistic review” to correspond with changes in the United States’ plans in Afghanistan.
Some “major surprises” are expected in Islamabad’s peace talks with the Taliban, the agency said during the briefing at the ISI headquarters in Islamabad on Thursday, according to sources.
Around five members of the Senate’s standing committee on defence, headed by former ISI chief Lt General (Retd) Javed Ashraf Qazi, were briefed on the ISI’s role, particularly in terms of the war against terrorism.
Declining from attending the briefing, Senator Raza Rabbani of the Pakistan Peoples Party (PPP) and Professor Khurshid Ahmed of the Jamaat-e-Islami (JI) were of the view that the agency should have come to the parliament for this meeting.
Senate Deputy Chairman Jan Jamali and Senator Tariq Azim were out of the country, whereas Maulana Muhammad Khan Sherani was unable to turn up due to his health condition, a participant of the briefing said.
Members who did attend the meeting shared very little information of the in-camera session that went on from 10 am to 1 pm.
“After the ISI officials briefed the participants about the functions of their agency, members posed various questions before the agency officials to clarify the myths and reality associated with the ISI,” a participant said.
Some of the participants were curious about the agency’s modus operandi in terms of the country’s political affairs; however, sources said, the spy chief opted to skip such questions.
The ISI official denied that the agency plays any role in the country’s political affairs, a participant said, while another claimed that Pasha admitted to the agency’s involvement but said that the ISI simply does what is asked of it by the government, be it civilian or military.
“They [ISI officials] said ‘we have been doing what the government of the time asks us to do … these days there are no such directions from this civilian government’,” a senator said.
During the briefing the ISI chief and his deputies confirmed that talks with the Taliban, mainly homegrown militants, were at an advanced stage and some major breakthrough was expected over the next few months.
The ISI officials were confident that there would be some “big surprises” on this front, the senator said, adding that according to the ISI officials, the overall dimension of the Afghan situation is rapidly changing. “We continue to review our policy with a holistic approach to correspond with changes in the policy of the major players,” another senator quoted the spy agency’s officials as saying.
To a question regarding the Osama bin Laden debacle, the senator said the ISI feels the episode was not solely the agency’s failure but was also a failure on the CIA’s part and that of top spy agencies of other allied countries.
There was no discussion, however, on the Memogate affair, the participants claimed.
One participant from a military background said he was not only satisfied with the briefing, but also paid accolades to the ISI. “The ISI is the best spy agency in the world. It has been succeeding in its mission. Bashing of the ISI and the army by the people of Pakistan is unfortunate … they do not know the real functions of this agency,” he said.
Professor Khurshid Ahmed who boycotted the briefing said he and a few other colleagues of his believed that every institution, including the armed forces, should come before the parliament to give such briefings – unless there is something that they cannot divulge before the house.
(Read: Talking to the Taliban)
Published in The Express Tribune, December 30th, 2011.

ISI should talk with the Taliban that is the only solution and in this we will have to give them some concessions weather some like it or not but Pakistan will have to do it