Madrassa reforms - Suggestions

[Zarvan]

It is said Madrassas are including Computers, Maths and other subjects. How are they managing, cutting other subjects or increasing timings. Because their students are already full time there, so how is that?

There is always room. You can add subjects and adjust I think you should see India they in language category teach 3 to 4 languages. We can add subjects not much issue

 

[Salik]

Just wait for Imam Mahdi. No person or state has the power to do such a feat.

If you are waiting for Imam Mahdi, he may never come for you. Unless you make your own self a Mahdi.

He will come to lead Muslims. Muslims will have to make themselves worthy of his leadership.

 

[Salik]

@CriticalThought

In the time of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H there was just 'knowledge', no religious or wordly knowledge. That's why the Prophet P.B.U.H said to go to China to seek knowledge. Obviously what kind of knowledge one would get in China. But today a distinction is created with names of religious and worldly knowledge, and people seeking knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah treat people seeking knowledge of other than the Quran and Sunnah as 'liberals' and 'seculars' and what not. In return they are called backward etc.

We need to treat the both as our own people and knowledge as our own knowledge.

And don't make it conditional to improve oneself with the improvement of other. If one does it other will realize automatically.

 

[sohail.ishaque]

Some reforms are already underway. Here are other suggestions.

1. Establish federal madrassa board.

2. Minister for madrassa affairs.

3. Educational and Recreational trip programmes.

4. Three to six month courses in affiliation with NCA (National College of Arts) in different trades.

5. Introduction of NCC.

6. Appointment of Physical Education Teacher and start of sports activities.

whole education system shud b under HEC,.

All the private/govt/madrassa shud b given some compulsory subjects and some optional subjects..

like,. for a madrassa, 5 subjects, shud b the same like maths, english etc and then 3 optional that they can use as fiqah, ahadess books etc,.. and same shd b opted for private english medium or urdu medium,. some compulsory subjects and the other they can opt depending on their medium..

 

[WarFariX]

@CriticalThought

In the time of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H there was just 'knowledge', no religious or wordly knowledge. That's why the Prophet P.B.U.H said to go to China to seek knowledge. Obviously what kind of knowledge one would get in China. But today a distinction is created with names of religious and worldly knowledge, and people seeking knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah treat people seeking knowledge of other than the Quran and Sunnah as 'liberals' and 'seculars' and what not. In return they are called backward etc.

We need to treat the both as our own people and knowledge as our own knowledge.

And don't make it conditional to improve oneself with the improvement of other. If one does it other will realize automatically.

its not who is seeking world knowledhe is liberal or secular....i became a hifiz e quran and also became a doctor and i dont have the liberalish western open mindedness neithr the mullah madness...just the normal balanced ..this is what everyone must have

 

[Salik]

its not who is seeking world knowledhe is liberal or secular....i became a hifiz e quran and also became a doctor and i dont have the liberalish western open mindedness neithr the mullah madness...just the normal balanced ..this is what everyone must have

You are not but it is present. As @Zarvan is saying, "improve yourself else we won't improve ourselves".

Both kind of knowledge are ours and we are ought to seek them unconditionally. If state wants to bring some changes, welcome. Its need of the hour and good for madrassas. As i pointed out one example of kids education.

Madrassas once again become center of knowledge and just 'knowledge' not worldly/non worldly. Like the people of Suffah were doing. And leave others behind.

 

[Mutakalim]

Parents are out of picture here. We are talking about madrassas receiving all kind of funds zakat/sadqaat/khairat/fitrana, donations.

Is there anything wrong with donations to Madrassas?

I didn't find anything wrong with these donations if they are not being used against the state. There are some black sheep's but the majority of Madrassas has nothing to do with terrorism.

 

[CriticalThought]

@CriticalThought

In the time of Prophet Muhammad P.B.U.H there was just 'knowledge', no religious or wordly knowledge. That's why the Prophet P.B.U.H said to go to China to seek knowledge. Obviously what kind of knowledge one would get in China. But today a distinction is created with names of religious and worldly knowledge, and people seeking knowledge of the Quran and Sunnah treat people seeking knowledge of other than the Quran and Sunnah as 'liberals' and 'seculars' and what not. In return they are called backward etc.

We need to treat the both as our own people and knowledge as our own knowledge.

And don't make it conditional to improve oneself with the improvement of other. If one does it other will realize automatically.

Please read the full post

https://defence.pk/threads/madrassa-reforms-suggestions.469163/page-15#post-9057173

What we fail to understand is that Dars-e-Nizami is a specialized course. You don't teach cooking along with PhD in mathematics. It makes no sense at all. The Dars-e-Nizami is jam packed as is. And even then, our religious scholars have their own priorities and concerns regarding the course. One big problem is that even after studying arabic grammar for years, students are not able to actually speak in Arabic fluently. The matter was under consideration quite a few years back. Another big concern is students from poverty stricken areas when they go back home and get exposed to shamelessness and lewdness in T.V. and movies. You might know in far flung places vulgar movies are shown in organized places and people gather to watch them. Also, the internet and mobile phones have made everything that much more accessible. The success of the Madressahs isn't in imparting a body of knowledge. It is in imparting knowledge, values, and most importantly character. These, and many other issues are the ones that religious scholars are worried about.

If Matric is already there just ask them to add FA and FSC also and Government needs to make it easy for Madrassa students to continue further studies. I mean BA and MA. And our schools also need to change by adding more Islamic subjects like Translation of Quran and Seerat and Islamic History along with adding lot more content in Islamiyat books. In other words both have to change or no one will change. And yes no force should be used because if Madrassas guy got pissed they together are much bigger force which no one in Pakistan is capable of facing.

Agreed on making it easy for Madressah students to enroll into unis after their education. I am completely in agreement.

Regarding the requirement of FA/FSC, it is not there for a good reason. This is the argument made by religious boards. After completing matriculation, a student needs to spend 2 years FA/FSC + 4 years bachelors + 2 years masters to get a masters degree. The dars-e-nizami is currently equivalent to a masters level of education. It is injustice to force our Madressah students to spend 2 more years. Remember, these students are at the prime of their lives. Two years doesn't sound like much, but 2 years in the life of an 18-24 year old can push him past teenage years, or past the 25 years mark. You are telling me they cannot earn for themselves until after 25 years old? Many people get married by 22 immediately after bachelors. In Dars-e-Nizami, there is no stop in the middle. You can't do a bachelors and be recognized for it. Students have to completely the full course. You either get it or you don't.

And then on top of all this, Takhassus, or specialization to become Mufti requires two more years of study + time spent working in a Dar-ul-Ifta.

The requirement of FA/FSC is injustice of the highest order against our Madressah students.

 

[Mutakalim]

Specialized 'religious' education in childhood??? You are just closing other windows of knowledge. I mean how would the kid do REASONING.

You don't consider Ilmul Tafseer, Hadees, fiqh, JArah o Tadeel, Ilm ul kalam, Sarf, Naho, Mantiq, Asool etc as sources of knowledge. If such is the case then my friend our argument is closed here. Thanks

We are humans. I wonder what do you want to produce.

You want to say that 1400 years of Islamic literature is worthless. Scholars like Raazi, Roomi, Abu Hanifa, Shafi, Maalik, Ibne Hanbal, Bukhari, Muslim, Nisai, Ibne Jozi. Ibne Hajar were subhumans. Humanity starts in Muslims when gora came to the subcontinent.

Can we conclude that big madrassas which can afford, they'll establish pre-schools?

I agree they should teach modern subjects.

 

[Salik]

Is there anything wrong with donations to Madrassas?

I didn't find anything wrong with these donations if they are not being used against the state. There are some black sheep's but the majority of Madrassas has nothing to do with terrorism.

Did i say anything? I didn't even touch that topic.

Why do madrassas take as many kids as possible? Take few ones, give them quality education with all modern requirements, blocks, crayons, clay, pencil colours etc. For bigger kids sports shoes and whatever sports material they like, alongwith computers and facilities for general knowledge.

They should make their budget and decide how many kids can they handle at one time. Then they can even ask for govt assistance and run media campaign and show their progress to the world.

 

[Mutakalim]

Why do madrassas take as many kids as possible? Take few ones, give them quality education with all modern requirements, blocks, crayons, clay, pencil colours etc. For bigger kids sports shoes and whatever sports material they like, alongwith computers and facilities for general knowledge.

They should make their budget and decide how many kids can they handle at one time. Then they can even ask for govt assistance and run media campaign and show their progress to the world.

No objections.

 

[CriticalThought]

Did i say anything? I didn't even touch that topic.

Why do madrassas take as many kids as possible? Take few ones, give them quality education with all modern requirements, blocks, crayons, clay, pencil colours etc. For bigger kids sports shoes and whatever sports material they like, alongwith computers and facilities for general knowledge.

They should make their budget and decide how many kids can they handle at one time. Then they can even ask for govt assistance and run media campaign and show their progress to the world.

I know for a fact that big Madressahs have a limited intake. Where did you get this information that they 'take as many kids as possible'?

 

[Salik]

Please read the full post

https://defence.pk/threads/madrassa-reforms-suggestions.469163/page-15#post-9057173

What we fail to understand is that Dars-e-Nizami is a specialized course. You don't teach cooking along with PhD in mathematics. It makes no sense at all. The Dars-e-Nizami is jam packed as is. And even then, our religious scholars have their own priorities and concerns regarding the course. One big problem is that even after studying arabic grammar for years, students are not able to actually speak in Arabic fluently. The matter was under consideration quite a few years back. Another big concern is students from poverty stricken areas when they go back home and get exposed to shamelessness and lewdness in T.V. and movies. You might know in far flung places vulgar movies are shown in organized places and people gather to watch them. Also, the internet and mobile phones have made everything that much more accessible. The success of the Madressahs isn't in imparting a body of knowledge. It is in imparting knowledge, values, and most importantly character. These, and many other issues are the ones that religious scholars are worried about.

For you knowledge of acquiring judgement in any matter is the actual knowledge, and it is of three types, 1) explicit Quranic verses & authentic Hadith, 2) ijmaa and 3) qiyaas. Apart from that everything else is extra. And that Asehaab-e-Suffah were busy in gaining this knowledge, and madaris are continuation of that effort.

For me that Hadith is SPECIFIC to the knowledge of aquiring judgement in any matter. But 'Knowledge' is beyond that and has no bounds. That is why there is Hadith of China.

Every kind of knowledge beneficial to human is compulsory and farz. That is why Hazrat Umer R.A. made compulsory to get knowledge of trade rules (you yourself mentioned it).

Now, for twenty thousand people there is only one doctor. Can your mufti saab give a ruling that out of ten students seven will go to medicine and three for fiqh learning. Wise allocation of man power.

 

[CriticalThought]

For you knowledge of acquiring judgement in any matter is the actual knowledge, and it is of three types, 1) explicit Quranic verses & authentic Hadith, 2) ijmaa and 3) qiyaas. Apart from that everything else is extra. And that Asehaab-e-Suffah were busy in gaining this knowledge, and madaris are continuation of that effort.

For me that Hadith is SPECIFIC to the knowledge of aquiring judgement in any matter. But 'Knowledge' is beyond that and has no bounds. That is why there is Hadith of China.

Every kind of knowledge beneficial to human is compulsory and farz. That is why Hazrat Umer R.A. made compulsory to get knowledge of trade rules (you yourself mentioned it).

Now, for twenty thousand people there is only one doctor. Can your mufti saab give a ruling that out of ten students seven will go to medicine and three for fiqh learning. Wise allocation of man power.

Unfortunately, becoming a doctor is actually a matter of $$$. You tell me, if becoming a doctor was a matter of simply enrolling into a uni, how many people would want to become a religious scholar? In a way, it would be good because in that scenario, when somebody entered a Madressah, their heart would be pure and they would actually be preferring religious duty over worldly benefit.

Oh, by the way, as you may know, the origin of the current 'Tableeghi Jamaat' is near Delhi. There is a mosque called 'Banglay Wali Masjid'. Literally, this is where Maulana Ilyas Rahimahullah started the whole 'Tableeghi' work by encouraging people in a small village called 'Mewaat'. So one of my friends had the opportunity to go to Delhi, India on an educational exchange program and he made sure to visit the 'Banglay Wali Masjid'. Since he was new in the area, they talked to him, learnt about how he has come from Pakistan and studies in a uni, and he got the chance to speak with someone very, very high up in the hierarchy in the original place where 'Tableeghi Jamaat' started. And what he said to my friend is exactly the same. Knowledge is the Divine Knowledge revealed in the Holy Quran and taught by the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Everything else is a 'skill'. So you have, mathematical skills, scientific skills, surgical skills etc.

I remember attending an 'Ijtima' in Raiwand many, many years ago and another top Tableeghi scholar from India was visiting. He said the exact same thing.

 

[Salik]

Unfortunately, becoming a doctor is actually a matter of $$$. You tell me, if becoming a doctor was a matter of simply enrolling into a uni, how many people would want to become a religious scholar? In a way, it would be good because in that scenario, when somebody entered a Madressah, their heart would be pure and they would actually be preferring religious duty over worldly benefit.

Oh, by the way, as you may know, the origin of the current 'Tableeghi Jamaat' is near Delhi. There is a mosque called 'Banglay Wali Masjid'. Literally, this is where Maulana Ilyas Rahimahullah started the whole 'Tableeghi' work by encouraging people in a small village called 'Mewaat'. So one of my friends had the opportunity to go to Delhi, India on an educational exchange program and he made sure to visit the 'Banglay Wali Masjid'. Since he was new in the area, they talked to him, learnt about how he has come from Pakistan and studies in a uni, and he got the chance to speak with someone very, very high up in the hierarchy in the original place where 'Tableeghi Jamaat' started. And what he said to my friend is exactly the same. Knowledge is the Divine Knowledge revealed in the Holy Quran and taught by the Prophet Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Aalihi Wasallam. Everything else is a 'skill'. So you have, mathematical skills, scientific skills, surgical skills etc.

I remember attending an 'Ijtima' in Raiwand many, many years ago and another top Tableeghi scholar from India was visiting. He said the exact same thing.

Now i know why do you people judge others so easily. Others are doing just a skill job and you are doing 'real' learning. Anyways God bless you.

Don't you see a mufti is also doing a skill job, extracting rules from the Quran with the help of Hadith, Ijmaa and Qiyaas. Basic hygiene and mannerism everyone can learn, it isn't a big science.

You are infact limiting the role of the Holy Quran. A mufti can extract the rules of his field, so does a scientist, he can extract info regarding physiology, cosmos, micro biology, in short any field from the Holy Quran. But you are not ready to accomodate a scientist in your madrassa with that intention.