Macron has forgotten parts of French history ...... conveniently

[Vortex]

Actually this is a trick of Shaytaan to convince us not to speak up because you have done "so and so" sin or shirked an obligation like salat, hijab, etc.

Read my post again :

What I want, and what every Muslim should want is simple : knowledge - cleaning our societies from extremism and jahiliat - learn critical thinking - logical reasoning with knowledge of the history, psychology and mindset of with whom you are discussing - do self introspection - among others things

If you had understood that you would understand yourself that then we could speak with words put side by side with logic, using their own concepts of what they pretend to defend, and which will make them cornered in their own way of thinking. But yes it should be to high for you to understand that.

We should always strive to be better regardless, and speak the truth, even when it is inconvenient.

if you are not able to talk with logic, to understand them, then whatever you will say to them will not be understood because you will be speaking with concepts and context they don’t understand. Use your brain, use your intellect, your abilities to analyse, to understand, to identify all the pieces of the puzzles !

 

[Vortex]

Seems it’s a norm in our country, I’m talking about paedophily and

NOT VERIFIED: Pakistan Catholics protest after abduction, forced marriage of 13 year-old Catholic girl

Azoo Raja. Credit: Aid to the Church in Need UK CNA Staff, Oct 29, 2020 / 10:15 am MT (CNA).- Catholics in Pakistan are protesting a judge’s decision not to intervene after a 44-year-old man allegedly kidnapped a 13-year-old Catholic girl, forced her to convert to Islam, and then married...

defence.pk

That’s why I’m calling to be clean on our side first ! When you want to convince others, you have to ! Like it or not but you have to be clean !

@Musings @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
@PAKISTANFOREVER

 

[Musings]

Seems it’s a norm in our country, I’m talking about paedophily and

NOT VERIFIED: Pakistan Catholics protest after abduction, forced marriage of 13 year-old Catholic girl

Azoo Raja. Credit: Aid to the Church in Need UK CNA Staff, Oct 29, 2020 / 10:15 am MT (CNA).- Catholics in Pakistan are protesting a judge’s decision not to intervene after a 44-year-old man allegedly kidnapped a 13-year-old Catholic girl, forced her to convert to Islam, and then married...

defence.pk

That’s why I’m calling to be clean on our side first ! When you want to convince others, you have to ! Like it or not but you have to be clean !

@Musings @Pan-Islamic-Pakistan
@PAKISTANFOREVER

Look at the title and topic we are discussing and then look at your post. If you want to discuss Pakistan - please start a thread and let’s discuss the topic - don’t derail this one.
You haven’t got an answer for French misdemeanours and want to continue the rant.
For the last time we are hear to condone strongly these horrific attacks on innocent people - no one can justify or accept this. We are attempting to suggest France history has rivers of victims blood running through it and conveniently forgotten Everything in their haste to blame ALL of Islam - we cannot all be held responsible for the acts of a few retards.

 

[Vortex]

Look at the title and topic we are discussing and then look at your post. If you want to discuss Pakistan - please start a thread and let’s discuss the topic - don’t derail this one.
You haven’t got an answer for French misdemeanours and want to continue the rant.
For the last time we are hear to condone strongly these horrific attacks on innocent people - no one can justify or accept this. We are attempting to suggest France history has rivers of victims blood running through it and conveniently forgotten Everything in their haste to blame ALL of Islam - we cannot all be held responsible for the acts of a few retards.

He never said all Muslims are responsible of the crimes committed by few. That’s the point you didn’t get. So how could you feel to be responsible for what happened ?

and what it had to with the forgotten parts of history ?

you posted this article for which purpose ? Especially in the current context? An article without its source ?

 

[Musings]

He never said all Muslims are responsible of the crimes committed by few. That’s the point you didn’t get. So how could you feel to be responsible for what happened ?

and what it had to with the forgotten parts of history ?

you posted this article for which purpose ? Especially in the current context? An article without its source ?

Whether he said or didn’t say becomes irrelevant when the likes of you want ALL of us to become apologists for the action of a few scoundrels - why should we all bow and beg for forgiveness ? Are we or Islam responsible for the actions of the few that want to hijack our faith?
If you can’t beat the argument - attack the source - old trick of the defeated poster. If you are so interested in the source - google it

 

[Vortex]

Whether he said or didn’t say becomes irrelevant when the likes of you want ALL of us to become apologists for the action of a few scoundrels - why should we all bow and beg for forgiveness ? Are we or Islam responsible for the actions of the few that want to hijack our faith?
If you can’t beat the argument - attack the source - old trick of the defeated poster. If you are so interested in the source - google it

How old are you ? Seriously ? Read again all my posts here and understand them. Buy a dictionary if needed.

honesty requires that when you post an article, you give the source yourself. And one of the forum rules.
I don’t need to attack you or the source.

Read the bold part of my message and now you say it’s irrelevant ?

your post was already irrelevant because Macron never said what you supposed him to have said.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

How old are you ? Seriously ? Read again all my posts here and understand them. Buy a dictionary if needed.

honesty requires that when you post an article, you give the source yourself. And one of the forum rules.
I don’t need to attack you or the source.

Read the bold part of my message and now you say it’s irrelevant ?

your post was already irrelevant because Macron never said what you supposed him to have said.

You have a very colonial servitude mindset. You seem to be an apologist for white racism. You are making endless excuses to justify white genocide and oppression of 100s of millions of non-whites but are trying to blame nearly 2 billion Muslims for the actions of a handful of people...........

 

[Musings]

How old are you ? Seriously ? Read again all my posts here and understand them. Buy a dictionary if needed.

honesty requires that when you post an article, you give the source yourself. And one of the forum rules.
I don’t need to attack you or the source.

Read the bold part of my message and now you say it’s irrelevant ?

your post was already irrelevant because Macron never said what you supposed him to have said.

So making A personal attack? Is this your method of countering an argument? I won’t stoop to your levels.
I will stick to MY original point and that Macron is no saint and has no justification in his insinuations about holding Islam to ransom. All Muslims will condone any attack on the innocent - however all Muslims cannot be responsible for the actions of a few. Btw you brought up a case of a catholic girl in Pakistan - how irrelevant is that?

As regards to the source issue - it took you 6 posts to remind me of the rules - I’ve made italics of what I have pasted and wasn’t attempting to make it sound if it was my own work. It’s an old trick - losing an argument - let’s make personal attack and attack the source. Anyway sir do have a good day.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

There is already a thread of the convert girl. Let us not deviate from the purpose of this thread.

Macron lit the first fire, so we are just repaying this cheap and unprincipled person who declares the problem to be with Islam.

You have a very colonial servitude mindset. You seem to be an apologist for white racism. You are making endless excuses to justify white genocide and oppression of 100s of millions of non-whites but are trying to blame nearly 2 billion Muslims for the actions of a handful of people...........

Yes, seems some Muslims have not gotten past the colonization of their minds to white master.

 

[PAKISTANFOREVER]

There is already a thread of the convert girl. Let us not deviate from the purpose of this thread.

Macron lit the first fire, so we are just repaying this cheap and unprincipled person who declares the problem to be with Islam.


Yes, seems some Muslims have not gotten past the colonization of their minds to white master.

The colonialists were facilitated in their genocide of non-whites by non-whites like vortex who collaborated with them and justified their racism and massacres.........

 

[BATMAN]

Every nation has good and bad history, but since we are discussing the bad history of France... than by looking from the Pakistani prism, their worst act was and will remain, delivery of evil Khumeni at the door steps of Pakistan. No evil from France can even it out.

 

[Vortex]

You have a very colonial servitude mindset. You seem to be an apologist for white racism. You are making endless excuses to justify white genocide and oppression of 100s of millions of non-whites but are trying to blame nearly 2 billion Muslims for the actions of a handful of people...........

thank you very much doctor for your psychoanalysis.

So making A personal attack? Is this your method of countering an argument? I won’t stoop to your levels.
I will stick to MY original point and that Macron is no saint and has no justification in his insinuations about holding Islam to ransom. All Muslims will condone any attack on the innocent - however all Muslims cannot be responsible for the actions of a few. Btw you brought up a case of a catholic girl in Pakistan - how irrelevant is that?

As regards to the source issue - it took you 6 posts to remind me of the rules - I’ve made italics of what I have pasted and wasn’t attempting to make it sound if it was my own work. It’s an old trick - losing an argument - let’s make personal attack and attack the source. Anyway sir do have a good day.

being or not being is not the question : question is we as a community (Muslim community) do we have problems about extremism, terrorism etc ? If not then ok.
But if yes (and it definitely yes) we have to work to clean our countr(y)ies.
We have to learn to think rationally, we should learn the history of others countries, others people, other cultures etc. And only then you, me, we will be able to explain our point of view and will be able to change what others are thinking or doing against us.
Have a look at Trudeau message about freedom of speech and respect.
We should have as Muslims, you should have , I should have, made this speech and maybe we would have been able to stop the cartoons against our prophet. After all this is what you want.
Instead of that you are posting a text extracted from an article (?) who is talking about a film about what few Muslims did to save some Jewish people ? To show what ?
If you go to Benjamin Stora website at :

Le film, Les hommes libres d’Ismaël Ferroukhi sera projeté au Festival de Cannes le jeudi 19 mai. Voici le synopsis, et un entretien avec Benjamin Stora, qui a été consulté pour ce film.

Benjamin Stora, professeur des universités, enseigne l’histoire du Maghreb contemporain (XIXe et XXe siècles), les guerres de décolonisations, et l’histoire de l’immigration maghrébine en Europe

benjaminstora.univ-paris13.fr

La Mosquée de Paris a-t-elle collaboré avec l'occupant et le régime de Pétain ?

Benjamin Stora said :
[...Comme l'ensemble des institutions françaises de l'époque, la Mosquée de Paris a collaboré avec le régime de Pétain et les autorités allemandes. Mais, individuellement, certains membres de la Mosquée refusent la politique suivie...]

Google translated :

[...Did the Paris Mosque collaborate with the occupier and the Pétain regime?

Like all French institutions of the time, the Paris Mosque collaborated with the Pétain regime and the German authorities. But, individually, some members of the Mosque reject the policy followed...]


And you are saying (rightly but no one is accusing you or me or even as a whole community) that you are not responsible about few Muslims did and you are posting an article to show that some Muslims did right things too
Why do you needed it ?
You have the right to post whatever you want, but the timing of posting this has some links with the current contexte as if you were looking for some excuse for yourself.
What I want is we Pakistanis, muslims, me, you, use our brain and learn how to deal with others to expose our points, opinions.
again you have right to post whatever you want, but think about the purpose of what you are posting, for what , and will it fulfills your aim ?
In that sens, you failed.

 

[Vortex]

May Allah swt bless him. He is such a great personality.



There is no imperative or justification which they have to defend insulting the personality of Prophet Muhammad saws.

This is a black and white issue, there is no grey area.



This is an independent policy which they have adopted independent of anything Muslims have done or are doing.

Imran Khan had seen it for 2 years and warned the world community about it.

Sorry missed your post.

World is not black or white. When you have a discussion with someone you have to learn about this person, about his history, about his culture... etc, and only then you will be able to discuss and could successfully gain his heart. In other words you will/could convince. We were given a brain so we could use it. Am I wrong ?

There no justification about insulting. Agreed. But Muslims reactions were worst because some people understood how to provoke us. Had muslims explained with logical reasoning and using French own freedom of expression, we could have gained the respect for our prophet. But yes jahils are jahils because they give themselves the wood with which they will be beaten.

I have lot of respect for Imran Khan but had it seen whatis happening since decades in France, he wouldn’t have only said wHat he said. He would have called Muslims, being citizens of foreign county, to be more responsible and mature.
Yes because Muslim community has its own share of responsibility in what is happening.

 

[PakFactor]

thank you very much doctor for your psychoanalysis.




being or not being is not the question : question is we as a community (Muslim community) do we have problems about extremism, terrorism etc ? If not then ok.
But if yes (and it definitely yes) we have to work to clean our countr(y)ies.
We have to learn to think rationally, we should learn the history of others countries, others people, other cultures etc. And only then you, me, we will be able to explain our point of view and will be able to change what others are thinking or doing against us.
Have a look at Trudeau message about freedom of speech and respect.
We should have as Muslims, you should have , I should have, made this speech and maybe we would have been able to stop the cartoons against our prophet. After all this is what you want.
Instead of that you are posting a text extracted from an article (?) who is talking about a film about what few Muslims did to save some Jewish people ? To show what ?
If you go to Benjamin Stora website at :

Le film, Les hommes libres d’Ismaël Ferroukhi sera projeté au Festival de Cannes le jeudi 19 mai. Voici le synopsis, et un entretien avec Benjamin Stora, qui a été consulté pour ce film.

Benjamin Stora, professeur des universités, enseigne l’histoire du Maghreb contemporain (XIXe et XXe siècles), les guerres de décolonisations, et l’histoire de l’immigration maghrébine en Europe

benjaminstora.univ-paris13.fr

La Mosquée de Paris a-t-elle collaboré avec l'occupant et le régime de Pétain ?

Benjamin Stora said :
[...Comme l'ensemble des institutions françaises de l'époque, la Mosquée de Paris a collaboré avec le régime de Pétain et les autorités allemandes. Mais, individuellement, certains membres de la Mosquée refusent la politique suivie...]

Google translated :

[...Did the Paris Mosque collaborate with the occupier and the Pétain regime?

Like all French institutions of the time, the Paris Mosque collaborated with the Pétain regime and the German authorities. But, individually, some members of the Mosque reject the policy followed...]


And you are saying (rightly but no one is accusing you or me or even as a whole community) that you are not responsible about few Muslims did and you are posting an article to show that some Muslims did right things too
Why do you needed it ?
You have the right to post whatever you want, but the timing of posting this has some links with the current contexte as if you were looking for some excuse for yourself.
What I want is we Pakistanis, muslims, me, you, use our brain and learn how to deal with others to expose our points, opinions.
again you have right to post whatever you want, but think about the purpose of what you are posting, for what , and will it fulfills your aim ?
In that sens, you failed.

Give us a break with your bullshit we should have explained to France & Co. like Treadu did. We have been doing this apologetic tour the last 20 fucking years and they still stab us in the gut. Even before 9/11 they interfere in our internal affairs, causing blood shed and economic loss and support dictators and upsur our elected leaders who don’t fit their agenda. It’s weak hands like yours they continue to step all over us. No more apologizes or sympathies from Muslims if you feel like kissing their shoes and polishing them with your lips go right ahead but we are frankly done with this shit.

 

[Musings]

Give us a break with your bullshit we should have explained to France & Co. like Treadu did. We have been doing this apologetic tour the last 20 fucking years and they still stab us in the gut. Even before 9/11 they interfere in our internal affairs, causing blood shed and economic loss and support dictators and upsur our elected leaders who don’t fit their agenda. It’s weak hands like yours they continue to step all over us. No more apologizes or sympathies from Muslims if you feel like kissing their shoes and polishing them with your lips go right ahead but we are frankly done with this shit.

Well articulated sir. You can take a horse to water but can’t force it to drink.
He’s probably got french citizenship after
Matrrying a frog resident hence feels like he should bow and accept the criticism and be an apologist.
we should always condone these hideous crimes but not accept responsibility and bow and say so sorry