Macron has forgotten parts of French history ...... conveniently

[Vortex]

Gives us a break with your bullshit we should have explained to France & Co. like Treadu did. We have been doing this apologetic tour the last 20 fucking years and they still stab us in the gut. No more apologizes or sympathies from Muslims if you feel like kissing their shoes and polishing them with your lips go right ahead but we are frankly done with this shit.

You could do this for more 100 years, it won’t change anything if you do it without knowledge about the personality, the values, the history of France.

you know what is taught in business best practices? They teach to learn the cul, the values, the mindset of the customer you will meet.

If you don’t know how to deal with, you are not deserving your desires, you are not deserving Islam, you are not deserving our Prophet.

Well articulated sir. You can take a horse to water but can’t force it to drink.
He’s probably got french citizenship after
Matrrying a frog resident hence feels like he should bow and accept the criticism and be an apologist.
we should always condone these hideous crimes but not accept responsibility and bow and say so sorry

No Sir ! you are totally wrong. Nobody is telling you to bow and say sorry. But you have to accept that we as Muslims have some responsibility.

 

[PakFactor]

You could do this for more 100 years, it won’t change anything if you do it without knowledge about the personality, the values, the history of France.

you know what is taught in business best practices? They teach to learn the cul, the values, the mindset of the customer you will meet.

If you don’t know how to deal with, you are not deserving your desires, you are not deserving Islam, you are not deserving our Prophet.


No Sir ! you are totally wrong. Nobody is telling you to bow and say sorry. But you have to accept that we as Muslims have some responsibility.

Why must only we study their culture and values, if that is to be the case, they need to learn our culture and values as well. Relationship building in business and personal is a two way street. If we were to drive in a one way street expect an accident. And we don’t have 100 years to give the French a rim job.

We have no responsibility to them, they came to our houses first uninvited and with a killing intent.

Well articulated sir. You can take a horse to water but can’t force it to drink.
He’s probably got french citizenship after
Matrrying a frog resident hence feels like he should bow and accept the criticism and be an apologist.
we should always condone these hideous crimes but not accept responsibility and bow and say so sorry

It’s people like him who settle in western countries become Yes Sir types. They give of a weak persona and give the whites enough ammo to treat them like shit. It’s type like him who are embarrassed to associate with there own and willing to throw there own under the bus.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

...

Yes which morals he is teaching us ? About freedom of speech ? About murders ? About respecting laws of France ? ...

Here is freedom of speech for you...
Print this image of burning french flag and post it on your vehicle and front door... let's see this, an image of a flag and compare with a caricature purposefully done to disparage and hurt Muslims...

Apparently, it is a crime in the land of la liberte even in private setting.

France: Decree on Flag Desecration

(Sept. 20, 2010) France's Decree 2010-835 of July 21, 2010, on the offense of desecration of the national flag, prescribes that, in addition to the cases covered by article 433-5-1 of the Criminal Code, the desecration of the flag is punishable with a fine of €1,500 (about US$1,900). The decree...

www.loc.gov

 

[Vortex]

Why must only we study their culture and values, if that is to be the case, they need to learn our culture and values as well. Relationship building in business and personal is a two way street. If we were to drive in a one way street expect an accident. And we don’t have 100 years to give the French a rim job.

We have no responsibility to them, they came to our houses first uninvited and with a killing intent.



It’s people like him who settle in western countries become Yes Sir types. They give of a weak persona and give the whites enough ammo to treat them like shit. It’s type like him who are embarrassed to associate with there own and willing to throw there own under the bus.

Maybe because Muslims are settled in western countries and in France ? If not happy then draw conclusions yourself.

Business is done to make deal, and deal is the moment when both understood and agreed what other party want. But each has to understand what other side wants and what he is ready to pay. But to make better deal, it’s very important to know with who you are dealing. If you want other side accept what you want.... and especially what you want they accept on their own soil.... draw yourself the conclusion.
It’s not building personal relation. It’s dealing.
And you don’t have 100 years in front you, that’s why I’m giving you own opinion about how to be convince others sides easily and quickly and successfully.
At least it is what you want, isn’t it?

Here is freedom of speech for you...
Print this image of burning french flag and post it on your vehicle and front door... let's see this, an image of a flag and compare with a caricature purposefully done to disparage and hurt Muslims...

Apparently, it is a crime in the land of la liberte even in private setting.

France: Decree on Flag Desecration

(Sept. 20, 2010) France's Decree 2010-835 of July 21, 2010, on the offense of desecration of the national flag, prescribes that, in addition to the cases covered by article 433-5-1 of the Criminal Code, the desecration of the flag is punishable with a fine of €1,500 (about US$1,900). The decree...

www.loc.gov

View attachment 684829

had you spent few time to study French people and their freedom, you would have understood that it’s a regulated freedom of speech, and the regulation was made according what happened on their own soil. Now you can enforce every law you want your own soil. You can burn whatever you want on your own soil. But not what is forbidden... it’s not a freedom of speech as in USA.

 

[OldenWisdom...قول بزرگ]

had you spent few time to study French people and their freedom, you would have understood that it’s a regulated freedom of speech, and the regulation was made according what happened on their own soil. Now you can enforce every law you want your own soil. You can burn whatever you want on your own soil. But not what is forbidden... it’s not a freedom of speech as in USA.

Who's talking about burning? I'm talking about the image of a burning flag... the history you speak about is riddled with abuses, of minorities, colonized, colored and of a certain religion(s)...

Let me give you a history lesson ... in West Africa while leaving their offices the spite of french officers was such that they even took the telephone sets and pulled the wires ... a parting yet very civilizing gift of a civilizing french colonials.
I have lived, worked and studied among french and I still remember their spiteful nature and pretentious attitude towards everyone else... especially Turks.

 

[Vortex]

Who's talking about burning? I'm talking about the image of a burning flag... the history you speak about is riddled with abuses, of minorities, colonized, colored and of a certain religion(s)...

Let me give you a history lesson ... in West Africa while leaving their offices the spite of french officers was such that they even took the telephone sets and pulled the wires ... a parting yet very civilizing gift of a civilizing french colonials.
I have lived, worked and studied among french and I still remember their spiteful nature and pretentious attitude towards everyone else... especially Turks.

I’m living in France since many years, had studied and worked with many différents nationalities, (French, Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians, Portuguese’s, Spanishs, Congolese, Senegalese, British, Americans, chineses, Turkish ... Christians, muslims, Jewish, Hindus, atheists, far right, communists etc.. and Pakistanis.

Never seen arrogant french apart some richs coming from elite families (barhay logs) but they were arrogant even with other french people (chotay logs).

But others nationalities, religious groups have also their share of arrogant people.

Even some Pakistanis and among Africans etc... maybe it’s your perception is fooling you. Maybe...

now Coming to picture of burning flag, as I have said, you have to understand their concept of freedom of speech. If you don’t, you will fail to discuss with them about this concept. It’s not the same freedom of speech as in USA. I’ve learned that even in the USA there was (still ?) à discussion about Flag... Am I wrong ?
Few time law was rejected, But Trump want it passed. So it’s all about where you put the cursor. Every nation has its own trajectory in the history... if you want to convince them about something you want they change you should learn about them in the present time.. without being biased by the past.

by the way may I ask you where you lived and worked with french people ?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Sorry missed your post.

World is not black or white. When you have a discussion with someone you have to learn about this person, about his history, about his culture... etc, and only then you will be able to discuss and could successfully gain his heart. In other words you will/could convince. We were given a brain so we could use it. Am I wrong ?

There no justification about insulting. Agreed. But Muslims reactions were worst because some people understood how to provoke us. Had muslims explained with logical reasoning and using French own freedom of expression, we could have gained the respect for our prophet. But yes jahils are jahils because they give themselves the wood with which they will be beaten.

I have lot of respect for Imran Khan but had it seen whatis happening since decades in France, he wouldn’t have only said wHat he said. He would have called Muslims, being citizens of foreign county, to be more responsible and mature.
Yes because Muslim community has its own share of responsibility in what is happening.

You suppose alot of things which are frankly unfactual.

We live in the real world, and the French have insulted our Prophet Muhammad saws and defended it.

So now we deal with this issue.

Macron said the problem is with Islam, but is obvious actually the issue is with France itself.

 

[Vortex]

You suppose alot of things which are frankly unfactual.

We live in the real world, and the French have insulted our Prophet Muhammad saws and defended it.

So now we deal with this issue.

Macron said the problem is with Islam, but is obvious actually the issue is with France itself.

And that’s won’t be great if we engage in debate, a well articulated debate with reasoning, with logic, by using french own laws and convince them how there is something wrong with their law instead of going in the wall like a angry bull ?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

And that’s won’t be great if we engage in debate, a well articulated debate with reasoning, with logic, by using french own laws and convince them how there is something wrong with their law instead of going in the wall like a angry bull ?

Go ahead brother, you can try that method.

Do you feel personally responsible for these two incidents?

I don't.

 

[HAIDER]

 

[Vortex]

Go ahead brother, you can try that method.

Do you feel personally responsible for these two incidents?

I don't.

I’m not, you’re not, but we (as a community) have a responsibility in educating our people, to make them use of the laws of the country where they are living to defend their opinion,and not killing.
Whenever I engage with French people about those issues, the murders done in the name of Islam destroy what I have done.

View attachment 684927

One’s wrongdoings don’t justify others’ wrongdoings nor yours nor mines. Are they ?

The Algerians have all the rights to exploit these events and ask justice. But, we are at square one if they ask it like dumb angry bull instead of constructing a well articulated case.

which option will be the best ?

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

I’m not, you’re not, but we (as a community) have a responsibility in educating our people, to make them use of the laws of the country where they are living to defend their opinion,and not killing.
Whenever I engage with French people about those issues, the murders done in the name of Islam destroy what I have done.


One’s wrongdoings don’t justify others’ wrongdoings nor yours nor mines. Are they ?

I partially agree with what you said, but in the same vein the wrong they do also unjustifies what they are saying also.

You see, the logic of not throwing the first stone is fantasy.

We have to deal with the reality, bc neither you nor I could have stopped that kid.

 

[Vortex]

I partially agree with what you said, but in the same vein the wrong they do also unjustifies what they are saying also.

You see, the logic of not throwing the first stone is fantasy.

We have to deal with the reality, bc neither you nor I could have stopped that kid.

I’m not saying they are right or wrong.
it’s the right they got due to severe abuses done by Clergy in past centuries. It’s their history, you can’t change their history

But had we been clever, we could have engage in national/public débat with well constructed reasoning without offensing them.... and slowly make them accept to not insult at all.


Yes we could have if we have fulfilled our duty decades ago.
The problem didn’t started just yesterday.

and we are part of the reality.

 

[Pan-Islamic-Pakistan]

Yes we could have if we have fulfilled our duty decades ago.
The problem didn’t started just yesterday.

and we are part of the reality.

Let's make dua brother, as much of the current situation is frankly out of our hands.

 

[Vortex]

Let's make dua brother, as much of the current situation is frankly out of our hands.

agreed. But never forget that violence does not solve issues. It’s add more.

I have updated my previous post.

yes I pray that sanity prevails among humanity.
You know France was never islamophobic, I’m living here since decades, I went to mosque freely, I got treatment in hospital at same level as French people, when I studied in schools, they never discriminated me, they never told me to change my faith, but I witnessed the changes in laws not because they became islamophobic, but because Muslims abused the given freedom and the will of some Muslims to impose their own vision.

weren’t we told to respect people, their way of life, their opinions when we are in other countries ?

agreed. But never forget that violence does not solve issues. It’s add more.

I have updated my previous post.

yes I pray that sanity prevails among humanity.
You know France was never islamophobic, I’m living here since decades, I went to mosque freely, I got treatment in hospital at same level as French people, when I studied in schools, they never discriminated me, they never told me to change my faith, but I witnessed the changes in laws not because they became islamophobic, but because Muslims abused the given freedom and the will of some Muslims to impose their own vision.

weren’t we told to respect people, their way of life, their opinions when we are in other countries ?

ukdated last one too.