Lockheed's F-16 Is Likely Forerunner For India's Next Fighter Jet Order

[randomradio]

24 su35 was 2 Bil some 3 years ago.

That's for the whole package, weapons, spares, training etc.

RuAF paid $20M for each of their Su-35s.

Pakfa will cost more than 100 mil per plane alone

Not anymore.

 

[Skull and Bones]

Sure US not gonna share AESA technology and their sources codes etc. F16 would become potent platform for IAF only of they comes with very long range missiles like Meteor. I don't think our military planners will ever have a doubt with F16 airframe.

Yes, that's why we can tell them to integrate Meteor for us, or they have the equivalent AIM-120D operational.

 

[Ram Mahadev]

if GoI is really planning to buy something, choose Gripen latest version and ask them to share critical tech and use it in Tejas MK1a and AMCA coz HAl/DRDO sucks at any job and they always delay . f16 (LM) will never share its critical tech coz they are Americans(cunning by nature) whereas Swedish will do coz they need us.

Ok where in gripin NG in first place? It will take some more months for first light. And it will have to be tested by SAAB. Only then Indian Airforce can be offered. Or it would be a wild draw for India. Better Buy F16 and modify them with best equipments available and weapons

 

[Skull and Bones]

That's for the whole package, weapons, spares, training etc.

RuAF paid $20M for each of their Su-35s.

By that logic, F-16 air frames are 12-15 million per piece.

 

[Ram Mahadev]

Yes, that's why we can tell them to integrate Meteor for us, or they have the equivalent AIM-120D operational.

AM 120 IS ABOUT 70KM I guess. They have serious disadvantages against Russian and Chinese long range missiles. But they relay on Stealth so 70/80km range is well enough. Not the case for F15/f16.

 

[Skull and Bones]

AM 120 IS ABOUT 70KM I guess. They have serious disadvantages against Russian and Chinese long range missiles. But they relay on Stealth so 70/80km range is well enough. Not the case for F15/f16.

AIM-120D is about 150 km.

 

[Ram Mahadev]

That's for the whole package, weapons, spares, training etc.

RuAF paid $20M for each of their Su-35s.



Not anymore.

RuAF pay less than what importers will pay. Because it's their fighter jet and made for national security. All OEM does it. All these profits will be made from exports. With high price tag as per market price. Gripin NG will cost a lot of money. Just with single engine

 

[randomradio]

By that logic, F-16 air frames are 12-15 million per piece.

Yes, but only if the USD falls by 4x and became 17 INR to a $.

You may not have noticed but ruble has fallen from 2 INR to 1 INR. Now ruble is equal to the INR. So all old costs have to be divided by 2.

RuAF pay less than what importers will pay. Because it's their fighter jet and made for national security. All OEM does it. All these profits will be made from exports. With high price tag as per market price. Gripin NG will cost a lot of money. Just with single engine

That's not exactly how it works. Or else they wouldn't have sold the Su-35 to the Chinese at 80M a piece, when a Rafale costs more than 200M a piece.

Ruble has fallen. The Russian GDP used to be a little bigger than India's. Today it is just $1.3T.

 

[C130]

Sure US not gonna share AESA technology and their sources codes etc. F16 would become potent platform for IAF only of they comes with very long range missiles like Meteor. I don't think our military planners will ever have a doubt with F16 airframe.


24 su35 was 2 Bil some 3 years ago.

Pakfa will cost more than 100 mil per plane alone


Radar avionics weapons can be purchased with TOT from Israel Sweden France/UK /eu. Of US can't give us TOT on Critical technologies

Israel can't give ToT on U.S designed or U.S funded systems without U.S permission, and as for Sweden,France, and UK I guess they would give some ToT, but so would the U.S

pretty sure Lockheed could work with India to advance your radar and engine technologies.

we have already moved on to 5th gen technology, 5th gen radar,5th gen avionics, 5th gen engine.

--------------------------------

I can see this kinda deal.

India needs 11 squadrons=198 birds

deal for F-16

72 made in the U.S F-16= $8 billion
126 made in India=$8 billion
cost to build depot to build and maintain the F-16=$1 to $3 billion
weapons package (JDAM,PAVEWAY,MAVERICKHARPOON,HARM)=$4 billon

setup so make in India JDAMS and other weapons.

all and all for 198 of the most advance Falcons,depots, and weapons you are looking at a $20 billion dollar program

this could all be achieved by 2022/23

 

[Skull and Bones]

That's not exactly how it works. Or else they wouldn't have sold the Su-35 to the Chinese at 80M a piece, when a Rafale costs more than 200M a piece.

So couple of your posts back, 2 billion for 24 Sukhoi-30s was inclusive of all weapons and services, while actual price was $25 million per piece, and now suddenly price of Rafale becomes $200 million exclusive of anything.

 

[Ram Mahadev]

AIM-120D is about 150 km.

I don't think we will get Aim 120D. Instead may be AIM120C. As far as I know South Koreans have gone for Meteor for the F35. .. Since this missile is latest variant we have to wait and watch whether US will export D variant. Their F35 yet to be integrated.

Australia requested some 350 missiles from US AIM-120D variant for their f18/35. I think it's on waiting for the last 6 months?

Moreover Meteor gives us advantage as multiple platforms can be armed with it Rafale Mirage F16. It also has Ram jet engine along with solid fuel propulsion.

 

[randomradio]

So couple of your posts back, 2 billion for 24 Sukhoi-30s was inclusive of all weapons and services, while actual price was $25 million per piece, and now suddenly price of Rafale becomes $200 million exclusive of anything.

Read carefully, this is what I said.
Or else they wouldn't have sold the Su-35 to the Chinese at 80M a piece, when a Rafale costs more than 200M a piece.

Su-35 inclusive of everything was 80M, similar to Rafale's price of 200+M. On a normal day the Su-35 should have at least cost 150M, with unit cost near 50M.

And this Su-35 deal was signed much before the ruble fell to its lowest. The unit cost today is 25M. Similarly, now a Su-30MKI costs 20-25M in Russia.

That's also why the FGFA contract reduced to 3.7B from 5.5B. It was just an exchange rate adjustment. That's also why we will be signing billions in deals with the Russians over the next few days.

 

[mingle]

This is another indian Drama nothing more wait another 10 yrs

 

[Ram Mahadev]

Israel can't give ToT on U.S designed or U.S funded systems without U.S permission, and as for Sweden,France, and UK I guess they would give some ToT, but so would the U.S

pretty sure Lockheed could work with India to advance your radar and engine technologies.

we have already moved on to 5th gen technology, 5th gen radar,5th gen avionics, 5th gen engine.

--------------------------------

I can see this kinda deal.

India needs 11 squadrons=198 birds

deal for F-16

72 made in the U.S F-16= $4 billion
126 made in India=$8 billion
cost to build depot to build and maintain the F-16=$1 to $3 billion
weapons package (JDAM,PAVEWAY,MAVERICKHARPOON,HARM)=$4 billon

setup so make in India JDAMS and other weapons.

all and all for 198 of the most advance Falcons,depots, and weapons you are looking at a $20 billion dollar program

this could all be achieved by 2022/23

Worth betting I must say. F16 not only improve our depleted strength. This will increase our offensive capability to many fold.
Am still not sure about US TOT on critical technology which includes their AESA radar. Even with engine am not sure how far they can go to provide TOT. Yet best bet could be F16 Airframe, US engine, SAAB GaN AESA, EW suits and other equipment from Israel, weapons from Europe and US. Cheap and best replacement for Mig21.

Read carefully, this is what I said.
Or else they wouldn't have sold the Su-35 to the Chinese at 80M a piece, when a Rafale costs more than 200M a piece.

Su-35 inclusive of everything was 80M, similar to Rafale's price of 200+M. On a normal day the Su-35 should have at least cost 150M, with unit cost near 50M.

And this Su-35 deal was signed much before the ruble fell to its lowest. The unit cost today is 25M. Similarly, now a Su-30MKI costs 20-25M in Russia.

That's also why the FGFA contract reduced to 3.7B from 5.5B. It was just an exchange rate adjustment. That's also why we will be signing billions in deals with the Russians over the next few days.

Ok what is the details about Chinese deals? Am sure underground deals would have made which might not come in the open.

 

[C130]

Worth betting I must say. F16 not only improve our depleted strength. This will increase our offensive capability to many fold.
Am still not sure about US TOT on critical technology which includes their AESA radar. Even with engine am not sure how far they can go to provide TOT. Yet best bet could be F16 Airframe, US engine, SAAB GaN AESA, EW suits and other equipment from Israel, weapons from Europe and US. Cheap and best replacement for Mig21.

I don't see why U.S shouldn't give full ToT on the radar and engine.

unless we feel the AMCA would be a threat to F-35 sales.