Lockheed Martin offers F-16 Block 70, for India, from India, exported to the world

[ebrahym]

Saab offer is better than F16 atm in terms of industrial benefits but due to its continuous effort to position its Gripen E as LCA Mk2 and constant talk of becoming a consultant for LCA Mk1A projects has rubbed MOD in a wrong manner.

The biggest challenge is Gripen E will have IOC by 2021 and FOC by 2023 if all goes as per plan. Thats way too much for India as IAF wont accept a foreign aircraft before FOC. We even did not budge for LCA Tejas on this so Gripen E wont get any exceptions at all.

Here in July 8th, i covered the package details

View attachment 327449

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-270#post-8447719

Notice the main points











Boeing F18 Initially wanted a 100% Boeing India unit to build the jets from kits and later from raw material stage with nothing under GOI control. This route enables all senate approvals without any hassles as nothing is shared at all and everything is under USA control only. This was rejected by DM MP

View attachment 327456
This was in Feb 17,2016
https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-142#post-8163398

Boeing climbed down from 100% subsidiary now to 74% stake and 26% with Tata (TASL) with some work for TASL but there was a major catch. Boeing knows clearly that it cannot get Senate approval for any TOT and thus wishes a G2G route with offset execution by TASL..

Here
View attachment 327458
Thats in June 26, 2016

https://defence.pk/threads/dassault...ussions-thread-2.351407/page-263#post-8416070


+++
Thus in terms of deals none of the offers so far are lucrative enough. TBH, the last from LM mentions about F35 as well. But critically when DM MP questions them on real technology transfer and if India wants access codes for radars, avionics, Jammers, Stealth aspect, Engines and other associated products, none of the trio - LM, Saab and Boeing - has been able to talk on this and reply properly.

It is beyond doubt that all of them are taking India for a ride with nothing much to do except screw driver based kit assembling for LM, nothing to share by Boeing/G2G offsets and Saab a paper plane without certification as of today or in next 1 year when this decision will be taken.

Thats the only reason Rafale has been in pole position all along as what India wanted is getting but you have to pay a price and also expand this acquisition number in order to reduce the such capital cost over the fleet size.

Moreover Indian Navy will be a customer of the MII line in India. So Single engine naval bird is already under process for IN (LCA -N) so no Gripen or F16 Block 72 (Naval version) and Boeing F18 wont get the cut as its unable to get a MII in the first place. So logical choice again rests with Rafale M.

also we need to note that the market for US platforms is decreasing so i dont think India should get them under Make in India
best for Indian aerospace Industry is the SAAB deal
as you pointed out
bu the timeframe MMRCA or tejas is gonna hit skies
they may become irrelevant because of superior platforms in adverseries hands
the question is why the hell do India want western Platforms so bad
they are clearly not in aircraft crisis
super sukhois, mig29s, mirage 2k, and guaranteed 5th gen platform by 2025
what else an airforce no matter how big it is ask for
MMRCA for me is dying a slow death
soon we might hear the news of its cancellation altogether

 

[randomradio]

The biggest challenge is Gripen E will have IOC by 2021 and FOC by 2023 if all goes as per plan. Thats way too much for India as IAF wont accept a foreign aircraft before FOC. We even did not budge for LCA Tejas on this so Gripen E wont get any exceptions at all.

Personally, I think Saab's IOC/FOC standards can be brought forward if IAF orders the Gripen. They don't really need 7 years for testing the new standard, a lot of the technologies have been under tests since the Demo. This is no different from Rafale bringing forward new technology development due to the large number of export orders.

IAF will induct even pre-IOC aircraft if Gripen brings in state-of-the-art technologies, at least on par with Rafale. It is possible if Saab replaces Italian electronics, if possible with Rafale tech from France. IAF is primarily concerned with Rafale, so the single engine choice is not IAF's, it is Parrikar's, at least from what I've seen. IAF's already finished technical evaluations, so all Parrikar is looking at is the industrial and economic importance of the jets.

IAF is inducting IOC Tejas.

The navy has zero interest in anything except the Rafale and F-35.

 

[Ankit Kumar 002]

Haa there goes much down the drain....

@PARIKRAMA @anant_s

Its pretty much confirmed (courtesy my pigeons ) , the US Airforce Secretary when brings up the issue of F16s will be told that the minimum requirements of any deal will be the " present manufacturing of Su30MKI in India(which is 100% Flanker built in India with Raw Materials minus titanium parts of engine shipped from Russia ) and RIGHTS TO INDIA to USE the Technology bought AS AND WHERE IT WANTS ! "
( Means the Engine , AESA and the EW suite is actually under discussion and India if goes for the platform will want rights over it, @PARIKRAMA this also shows how much LM is paying to get only half truths working in their favour, as the Engine if under discussion for ToT is likely to be GE414 and that infers the USAF Secretary will not only raise issue for LM but also for Boeing. )"

PS:- The Indian side estimates and expects that with the present conditions will likely raise the costs , but the only condition for such a deal to happen is this. Further Expect a news about Indian Private sector company entering into a JV 49(Indian):51(LM/Boeing)for production of Airframes in India.

 

[PARIKRAMA]

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/08/idn-take-f-16s-for-india-from-future.html

@R!CK : They copied your whole article

they quoted someone called raze
Raze is an avid Defense enthusiast and a great fan of IDN. This piece on the F-16s prospect for India was written by him exclusively for IDN. Views expressed are his own.

 

[R!CK]

http://www.indiandefensenews.in/2016/08/idn-take-f-16s-for-india-from-future.html

@R!CK : They copied your whole article

they quoted someone called raze
Raze is an avid Defense enthusiast and a great fan of IDN. This piece on the F-16s prospect for India was written by him exclusively for IDN. Views expressed are his own.

I had sent it to someone for review. He sent it to few friends. Maybe they published it. Raze is my nickname. Thanks for highlighting, good to see it published.

Good Day!

 

[salarsikander]

Exactly! And it will be the Mig story all over again!

You could therefore in detial share the mig story. Your posts are highly informative

 

[eddie01]

also we need to note that the market for US platforms is decreasing so i dont think India should get them under Make in India
best for Indian aerospace Industry is the SAAB deal
as you pointed out
bu the timeframe MMRCA or tejas is gonna hit skies
they may become irrelevant because of superior platforms in adverseries hands
the question is why the hell do India want western Platforms so bad
they are clearly not in aircraft crisis
super sukhois, mig29s, mirage 2k, and guaranteed 5th gen platform by 2025
what else an airforce no matter how big it is ask for
MMRCA for me is dying a slow death
soon we might hear the news of its cancellation altogether

omg!! being a pakistani you know much more than Indian members here about IAF and more about what to induct and what to scrap blah blah... i appreciate your concerns but no thanks to your expert comment

 

[ebrahym]

omg!! being a pakistani you know much more than Indian members here about IAF and more about what to induct and what to scrap blah blah... i appreciate your concerns but no thanks to your expert comment

welcome new member you will get acquainted here soon
plus the post was not for trolls
try not to pick my posts in future

 

[eddie01]

welcome new member you will get acquainted here soon
plus the post was not for trolls
try not to pick my posts in future

well tbh its not a troll post but what you said or quoted was for trolling.

 

[ebrahym]

well tbh its not a troll post but what you said or quoted was for trolling.

kindly read my signature
thats all for you

 

[eddie01]

kindly read my signature
thats all for you

open mind really? well thtz enough to say from my side to you without signature.

 

[ebrahym]

open mind really? well thtz enough to say from my side to you without signature

noted
i will consider it in our future interactions
which hopefully are not due

 

[salarsikander]

hey'll be grounded for want of spares and third line maintenance! That means putting the screws on Pakistan by other means!

LOL They are not selling you the entire rights. You will still require US permission to source the critical component for f-16 and for every extra unit you will make you will have to get approval from US

 

[wiseone2]

LOL They are not selling you the entire rights. You will still require US permission to source the critical component for f-16 and for every extra unit you will make you will have to get approval from US

I cannot see USA forcing India to send spares to PAF during India-Pakistan confrontation
I cannot see the USAF depending on India for spares

 

[salarsikander]

I cannot see USA forcing India to send spares to PAF during India-Pakistan confrontation
I cannot see the USAF depending on India for spares

As I said they will be setting up assembly line, Its not that you will be buying the right for entire assembly line !
It will be effectively under US control