Little more time will take to finalize submarine deal with China : Naval Chief

[Zarvan]

 

[fatman17]

3 years delay already and thats with the chinese....

 

[tarrar]

Delay is always a bad news. We saw delays in J10B & later it unwantedly got cancelled, where as the deal was done in Gen. Musharraf's era.

 

[zaid butt]

hope for good news soon

 

[hussain0216]

Submarines for Pakistan are enivitable in numbers they are a good counter balance to the indian navy


their may be very good reasons why this is taking time

It may be that the platform we want isn't quite ready yet

 

[Archie]

its all about economy.
the day pakistan's economic growth rate hits 6% and forex reserve hit 20 billion USD, this deal would be signed

 

[Donatello]

The delay is because of funds, but also what technology to get and what number of Submarines to order. PN is looking at 6-8 boats, since by the time 2-3 boats are delivered and accepted, Agosta 70s would be long past their life time and Agosta 90s would be having major refits.
PN wants AIP system similar to the Agosta 90 MESMA (which itself is a very complex but extremely reliable system), plus the possibility of SLCMs built in. These are big things. Submarines are no joke and are unlike any other ship.

Better get the technical details sorted out first, since these submarines will be the punch of PN.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

I think considering Military is purcashing the MI-35, MI-28
And SAM , we might not have enough left to spend on Submarines

The submarine deal was I believe 1.5-2 Billion range



Unless we already paid for the Submarines in Musharaf era as down payment


Below are numbers for possible Russan-Pakistan Military deal for SAM / Helicopters
so logically we will not get submarine deal till 2016


IDEAL PACKAGE: (If we took out credit / Loan
Tor Unit Cost = $750 Million (30 Units)
SA-17 "GRIZZLY" (BUK-M2) = $750 Million (10 Units @ 75 Million a Pop)
Pantsir = $390 Million (30 Units)

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$2.3 Billion Deal Complete Sweet Dream at Night Package
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Mi-35 = $600 Million (30 Units)
Mi-28 = $450 Million (30 Units)
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
$ 1.0 Billion The bye bye Terror Package and every thing in between
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


REALISTIC PACKAGE: (The Doable Package)

Looking at the Cost figures , from Financial Perspective this is a package we might get

Tor-M2KM (SA-15) = $250 Million (10 Units @ 25 Mil a pop)
SA-17 "GRIZZLY" (BUK-M2) = $225 Million (3 Units @ 75 Mil a pop)
Pantsir = $286 Million (22 Units @ 13 Mil a pop)

About 34 SAM batteries 50% of what we need


MI-35 = $400 Million (20 Units @ 20 Mil a pop)
MI-28 = $300 Million (20 Units @ 15 Million a pop)

40 Helicopters , a bit off from what we need 60-80 Helicopters but its a start

 

[black-hawk_101]

So when PN is going to retire the Agosta-70s and Midget Submarines???

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

why retire hardly used

 

[Shabi1]

So when PN is going to retire the Agosta-70s and Midget Submarines???

Agosta 70s were recently upgraded so they can remain in service till new subs inducted. So likely to remain operational till replacements arrive.

 

[The SC]

In the past it Has been Reported that Pakistan is getting 039 class "Songs" or 041 class Yuan class From china But now reports emerge that it is the latest variant of 041 class named "QING" class submarines for which a deal was inked for 6.

The first Qing class built for Chinese Navy was launched last year and will be going through the sea trial this month 6/2011 which will include the firing of CJ-10K LACms with a range of 1,500 KM.

The deal was signed between Wuhan-based China State Shipbuilding Industrial Corp (CSIC) and Pakistani Government in April 2011 is for 6 Qing class submarine, These submarines will be double hulled with a submerged displacement of 3,600 tons. It will be equipped with the new Stirling-cycle AIP and will be able to carry upto 3 CJ-10K which could carry nuclear warheds, Other features include hull retractable foreplanes and hydrodynamically streamlined sail. The AIP and the propulsion systems will be all electric and not the diesal electric propulsion system making the submarines very quiet. This propulsion system has already been tested on a number of heavier Chinese submarines.
And In the other development is Pakistan has also signed a deal for a 10 year leaso of 2 Type 054A FFGs. The two ships that Pakistan will receive are serial number 525 and 526 inducted in PLAN in 2005.

Pakistan Navy To Get 6 QING Class Submarines And 2 Typ 054A FFGs From China | ASIAN DEFENCE NEWS

Type 041 Qing Class Submarine

It is rumored that Type 041 Qing Class Submarines are fitted with flank sonar arrays and improved targeting system to effectively provide guidance to the long-range antiship missiles and land attack cruise missiles.

 

[black-hawk_101]

Agosta 70s were recently upgraded so they can remain in service till new subs inducted. So likely to remain operational till replacements arrive.

I think PN had a card to play with like offer training and 2 Agosta 70s upgraded ones to BD and from that money make 3 more Agosta-90Bs and also 6-8 300 Tons Midget submarines with French help.

Type 054A FFGs serial number 525 and 526 have same capability like F-22P, if we would have need them then we should have made 2 more F-22Ps.

 

[Penguin]

The official Chinese designation is 039A as the ship is based on the 039 class, but as the 039A has very little resemblance to the 039 it is commonly referred to as the Type 041.

 

[Rashid Mahmood]

The delay is because of funds, but also what technology to get and what number of Submarines to order. PN is looking at 6-8 boats, since by the time 2-3 boats are delivered and accepted, Agosta 70s would be long past their life time and Agosta 90s would be having major refits.
PN wants AIP system similar to the Agosta 90 MESMA (which itself is a very complex but extremely reliable system), plus the possibility of SLCMs built in. These are big things. Submarines are no joke and are unlike any other ship.

Better get the technical details sorted out first, since these submarines will be the punch of PN.

I agree with the analysis.
PN wants a permanent solutions, not a plug to fill the gap like we did with the Type 21's.

PN wants subs which will eventually replace the 90B's, and became the mainstay of our sub fleet.
This will take time......