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Likely VTOL/STOVL aircraft for future big LHD/aircraft carrier programs

My own opinion is politics evolve and Turkey will continue with a limited amount of F-35s as this is the only way it could salvage its sunk investment and US can't afford delays or further cost overruns from switching to new vendors for some of the components. Because of COVID-19 alot of military budgets will shrink and F-35 orders will be cut so US needs all the orders it can get.

Turkey won't be receiving any F-35s (or other fighters from the US like F-16) unless and until Ak Parti (Erdogan) government is toppled by a landslide election victory by the CHP (highly unlikely) or a more ominous and sinister method like a coup d'etat or assassination (also highly unlikely).

Turkey and the US diverge on so many global/regional issues that they're hardly allies anymore. US supports various terrorist organizations against Turkey such as FETO and PKK/YPG and the non-delivery of the F-35s Turkey had paid for was a breach of contract on US' part since the S-400s were bought as a response to the US-sponsored coup attempt back in 2016. Not to mention US companies signing illegal oil/gas deals with the Greeks and Greek Cypriots violating Turkish EEZ rights in the Mediterranean.

Politics change only when the geopolitical conditions on the ground demand it. Currently I don't see that happening and therefore the US will remain on Turkey's shitlist.
 
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Correction. For the thousandth time: It is NOT an aircraft carrier, it is an amphibious assault ship.

A local design is surely out of question. No CATOBAR and it would be absurd to rebuilt the entire flight deck to fit it with one. Long story short, its either the Harrier or the F-35B. Wouldn't worth the money to buy the Harrier no matter how cheap it is. F-35/S-400 issue will be resolved one way or another and ultimately we will get them maybe 2 years later or maybe a decade later but we will get them. Nevertheless, it will remain as one of the most advanced aerial platforms.

So I believe that the question should be, what should the navy do in the meantime?

My suggestion is that instead of waiting to receive them, Navy should get prepared to be able to be operational at a moment's notice when receiving the aircraft.

Select promising aviation candidates from Naval Academy and Naval NCO School; Ship them to Air Force for combat pilot/aircraft maintenance training. The same path TURAF pilots/NCOs go for flying or maintaining F-16s, these sailors should be subject to the same training.

They should form two expeditionary strike fighter squadrons under the Naval Aviation Command. And the sailors graduating from the above training should be posted there along with some F-16s. They can undertake the existing aerial missions being conducted by the Air Force in support of the Navy such as Operation Med Shield, until F-35 is cleared. You know, CAP in Eastern Med/Aegean Sea etc. Or participating to amphibious exercises such as EFES. And use them for routine air strikes in Iraq as well.

They will receive the necessary experience to lead the future planning and principals projects of the Navy to form the naval air combat doctrine of the force. This will really save some time until F-35s arrive. By doing so not only the strike fighter squadron will maintain its combat readiness, it will also enable the navy to have two squadrons who has both experience and readiness to receive the combat jets awaiting full operational capability like the TURAF's 171. FİLO before the sanctions and stuff.

And once Turkey is readmitted into the JSF program, the majority of the sailors in these squadrons will receive F-35 transition training like the rest of USAF. Among them, the senior ones would additionally be sent to receive instructors training. Once all of them completes the training, the Navy will train as much as sailors to be able to form the third squadron. Of course not to mention that they must go through training with the Marines.

So in total one squadron would be used for training purposes and the other two would remain as the spearheads of Naval Aviation until they receive these beauties.

The main reason why this will be a very complex thing for us is because we never had a fixed-wing combat capability in our Navy. Therefore, every step we take will both be a first and an accelerated version of how it should be done in normal circumstances which is totally normal.

Nevertheless, the Navy of the Republic will get stronger day by day as it reemerges like a phoenix after getting rid of all this FETÖ affiliated scums both mentally and equipment wise.
 
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What's the point of training our pilots for an aircraft (F-35) we'll never receive?

S-400 isn't the only problem standing in the way of Turkish F-35s. The main issue here is USA's greater Turkey & Middle East policy. S-400 was acquired as a response to USA's Gulenist/FETO coup d'etat which killed hundreds of Turkish citizens and caused serious damage to Turkey's economy. Has the US extradited Fethullah Gulen and other senior leaders of FETO? No it hasn't. And it continues to use this group against Turkey.

US also finances, trains, arms and otherwise suppots the PKK/YPG against the Republic of Turkey and actively aids these terrorists in creating an independent "Kurdistan" in northern Iraq, Syria and SOUTHEASTERN TURKEY. This is completely UNACCEPTABLE.

American oil/gas companies have signed exploration and extraction deals with Greece and Greek Cyprus completely violating Turkish and Turkish-Cypriot EEZs and US Navy has provided naval protection for their commercial activities.

US also routinely engages in hostile acts of currency exchange manipulation against the TRY in order to pressure Turkey into taking certain actions in favor of US interests at the expense of Turkish ones.

While the US commits these CRIMES AGAINST TURKEY, how do you expect us to pay them 30-40 billion dollars for airplanes that will largely remain under US control due to their proprietary and network-centric nature?

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Dear @cebatli_53 thanks for precious topic.
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Firstly Turkish Navy was going to purchase F35B it means Turkish navy needs short take off vertical landing fighters.

Around the navy forces there is already an active StoVL aircraft. If there'snt any f35b why won't you purchase AV8 Harrier?

Replacing AV-8 Harriers with Atak helicopters will be inoperative. Harriers with their STOVL character are irreplaceable and matcless.

I would love to see Türkiye producing AV8 Harriers underlicense of brits as Türkiye produced Atak helis!


Look at AMRAAM s
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U.S. Marine Corps Harriers Are Getting Better and Better
New aviation plan gives jump jets new missiles, electronics
The U.S. Marine Corps has decided to bring forward the retirement date of its 108 AV-8B Harrier jump jets from 2030 to 2025. But in their remaining decade of front-line service, the diminutive attack jets could get a host of upgrades—including new weapons, jammers and communications.
3997dbda3ad5bccbe18d6121dc17dab4.jpg

An unsafe and unreliable design for much of its long history, the subsonic Harrier has gotten better with age—and could bow out of service at the peak of its lethality.

In theory, any Harrier with an APG-65 radar—most of the Marines’ jump jets carry the sensor—can fire AMRAAM missiles at targets beyond visual range. The British Royal Navy fitted AMRAAMs to its own upgraded Sea Harriers way back in the early 1990s, before prematurely retiring the jets in 2006.

Harriers aren't supposed to use limited LPD , They were one of the most important weapon of gulf walf. They didnt just used to land and to take off LPDSs.
Harriers give irreplaceable opportunity when your airports and runways are bombed.

 
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brits retired them in 2006 but you want them within TSK in 2020, what you think about TuAF(or TurNavy) a JUNKYARD?
 
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brits retired them in 2006 but you want them within TSK in 2020, what you think about TuAF(or TurNavy) a JUNKYARD?
No i dont !
but US Navy still uses. Brits retired because they hadnt have advanced AV8 Harrier block 2.
Moreover is there any chance to purchase F35 B? Why don't you produce Harriers in Turkey?
Production would bring other benefits such experience of vertical aircraft.
Will you produce VTOL MMU ? So you need VTOL know-how!
 
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if you introduce a new aircraft that means you will use it about 40 years! 2060 !!!! can you imagine a world in 2060's ? most probably thatt kind of new aircrafts will be retired within 10-12 years of service, and would be replaced by UCAVs.
 
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I think that the LHD should be used for larger UCAV's if possible as well as attack helicopters. I don't know what take off and landing distance is like for UCAV but i must surely be a lot less than standard aircraft
 
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if you introduce a new aircraft that means you will use it about 40 years! 2060 !!!! can you imagine a world in 2060's ? most probably thatt kind of new aircrafts will be retired within 10-12 years of service, and would be replaced by UCAVs.
If the aircraft had high end sensors and technology, Why wouldnt keep? For example: F16s! You seem to have forgotten your Hürjet project. Hürjet project somehow could be connected with harriers.

Or do you need just stealth body? You can cover Harriers radar absorbing materials.
There are stealth weapon pods.
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if you can cover a fighter with a RAM clothes go ahead, why dont you do it with F16.
 
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if you can cover a fighter with a RAM clothes go ahead, why dont you do it with F16.
F16 has enough low RCS no need to cover. But f15 c has big rcs .

But You are right. İt would be unnecessary if harrier had already low RCS. No idea about Harriers RCS.

Do you mean : Turkish Navy doesn't need any aircrafts if they aren't stealth?

Why US and other Navies use non-stealth aircrafts?
What about Electronic Warfare pods?
 
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They are replacing old platforms with stealth ones that is my point. Hurkus cant be deployed on ANADOLU because of 1)no catapult 2) no landing strip 3)not designed for navy(harsh conditions ie. salt and more powerful structure)
 
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They are replacing old platforms with stealth ones that is my point. Hurkus jet cant be deployed on ANADOLU because of 1)no catapult 2) no landing strip 3)not designed for navy(harsh conditions ie. salt and more powerful structure)
What if Hürjet had STOVL capability ? That's why i am screaming here : Hürjet could be evolved into stovl aircraft project.
 
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What if Hürjet had STOVL capability ? That's why i am screaming here : Hürjet could be evolved into stovl aircraft project.
it means another type of aircraft that will be produced with very limited numbers---->impossible
 
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it means another type of aircraft that will be produced with very limited numbers---->impossible
Totally agree. There is an another option, production of AV8 Harrier 2. It could be assembly or semi- production like Atak helis.
 
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