Let's get our nuclear weapons out of Turkey

[xenon54 out]

Being suspect doesn't make a person guilty, not without evidence. And if you say CIA is a suspect in the coup, it's also possible it had nothing to do with it.



I grew up during the Cold War, so the CIA getting blamed for coup or war is nothing new.. You are just the latest in many that came before to blame the CIA.

And no. I'm not naive to believe the CIA was not involved in some nasty business in its history. But I'm not ignorant enough to jump to conclusions like you have. I'm just waiting for the evidence to emerge. May be you are right and I'm wrong. We'll see.

CIA Ankara station chief Paul Henze himself cabled "our guys did it" to Washington when 1980 coup happened.
Also interesting that the US military issued a warning to US Embassy one hour in advance about the coup.

Read the quote in my post in page 4 or google 1980 coup, the wiki page has sources, im on mobile, too lazy to post links.

Its easy to say conspiracy theory without enough knowledge about a subject.

 

[shhh]

@T-123456 no, Indians don't have any issues with Turkey. You need to see the discussions on forums like these as born out of scholastic interests on neutral topics. The person was just expressing his side of views based on what information is available in the public forum. You don't need to be so salty about it. And @Shaheer ul haq for god's sake, can we leave out India-Pakistan rhetoric out of this thread.

We could, but you need to convince your fellow members to do that.

 

[Timur]

Being suspect doesn't make a person guilty, not without evidence. And if you say CIA is a suspect in the coup, it's also possible it had nothing to do with it.

there was no evidence that taliban supported the 911 call number date.. but still nato is in afhanistan..
the best part is I remeber that taliban said give us evidence Osama bin laden did it and we will hand him over but us refused ... instead they bombed afghanistan..

its about do you want to see the evidence or not.. or do you have other plans? so gülen is important for middle asia and some other places..

 

[shhh]

For Indians, It does matter if Turkey is a friend or ally of Pakistan.

What matters is, if Turkey is a friend and ally of India or not. I would like to see Turkey to comeout and support India's NSG membership.

India only got interested in Turkey after Turkey and Pakistan got closer.
That is the precise reason that Indians were happy when the coup was underway.

Did you meet most Indians?

Most Indians neither care for Pakistan nor Turkey. They only care about Bollywood...

Yup, met a lot on facebook, in places I would never expect them to be . They are much more interested in Pakistan and whats going on in Pakistan! .

Anyway, lets stay on topic.

 

[usernameless]

Being suspect doesn't make a person guilty, not without evidence. And if you say CIA is a suspect in the coup, it's also possible it had nothing to do with it.



I grew up during the Cold War, so the CIA getting blamed for coup or war is nothing new.. You are just the latest in many that came before to blame the CIA.

And no. I'm not naive to believe the CIA was not involved in some nasty business in its history. But I'm not ignorant enough to jump to conclusions like you have. I'm just waiting for the evidence to emerge. May be you are right and I'm wrong. We'll see.

indeed, there is no hard evidence and of course no US politician or CIA is gonna say 'we did it'. However, when we look at the developments, probably most of which you are not aware of due to lack of objective coverage in the western mainstream media, and connect the dots, then there is a good chance that the Gulenists were directly or indirectly supported. Our suspicions are not baseless as in the past the CIA indeed was involved with the 12 September 1980 coup.

The American support of this coup was acknowledged by the CIA Ankara station chief Paul Henze. After the government was overthrown, Henze cabled Washington, saying, "our boys [in Ankara] did it."[32] Henze denied American involvement in the coup during a June 2003 interview on CNN Türk's Manşet, but two days later Birand presented an interview with Henze recorded in 1997 which confirmed Mehmet Ali Birand's account.[33][34] The US State Department itself announced the coup during the night between 11 and 12 September: the military had phoned the US embassy in Ankara to alert them of the coup an hour in advance.[9]

Here another CIA related coup:
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/19/cia-admits-role-1953-iranian-coup

That's fine with me. The only difference between our standpoint is that, while we know that there is no hard evidence (yet?), you are on the 'probably not' edge while i am sitting on the 'probably yes' edge. By the way, no offense meant with my 'how old are you question?', just fed up with the kind of people who think the US and CIA are completely innocent and have never been involved with dirty business in the past.

 

[usernameless]

After losing their most important ally in ME in 1979 (Iran), western countries are doing everything they can to push Turkey further towards east. I mean what is wrong with them? Do they really want to see Turkey off their list of allies too? Geo-politically, Turkey is most important western ally in MENA region, more important than KSA, Israel or Egypt. I wonder why they like to push Turkey away. It's hard to digest that over one single old man (Gulen), west is ready to ruin relations with Turkey. Something much bigger than Gulen should be involved.

It's not that they want to push Turkey away, it's that they want to replace the current govt with a puppet that doesn't have a foreign policy, does not stand up against them, does not bother them, does not become ambitious, just behaves like a shield for NATO (and Israel) and such. I am especially referring to the US since the EU are just following the US. If Erdogan was playing into the hands of the US, the US would never drop him and there would not be this much exaggerated propaganda aimed at Turkey and Erdogan. The 'coup' attempt by the Gulenists was condemned by all political parties of Turkey and the whole society rallied against it during protest rallies. Even opponent politicians and media of Erdogan are questioning the hypocrisy and intentions of the US and some of the EU countries.

Well, that old fart has built an organization worth at least $25 billion. I don't know if he has schools in Iran as well. Russia closed down his schools some years back with the reason that there are CIA agents working at his schools. If that is true, It's basically win-win for the US and Gulen. Gulen is even allowed to open schools at US army bases. It's also well known that Gulen gives great donations to Republicans and Democrats. There's more going on.
This article describes them more:
http://www.hurriyetdailynews.com/th...tion.aspx?PageID=238&NID=102173&NewsCatID=548

LOL noone thinks US and CIA are innocent. US is probably involved in more shit throughout the world than all other countries combined. That is precisely why it's easy to convince people that US is behind everything wrong. (If you say US is hiding aliens, chances are people will believe you) Again, you are blaming US today for something it did in 1980. In today's dynamics, destabilizing Turkey is like spitting in your own drink for US. Turkey is very vital for US interests in middle-east. So, trying to topple the govt there just doesn't make sense to me.
In favor of your argument, US was uncharacteristically demure in condemning the coup while it was going on but I think that was to let things run their natural course. US has no love for Erdogan and wouldn't want to run foul of the new establishment for him incase the coup was successful(Incidentally this is what they did in Egypt too). But again, this doesn't mean that it has to be involved in the coup.

The point is, the US doesn't want to lose Turkey, they just want to see Erdogan replaced by a loyal puppet, that's all. We can discuss for hours, but one thing stands and can't be denied: US goes purely after its interests (like anyone should). Hence it didn't make supportive statements while the 'coup' was going on, but rather waited for the outcome (so much for a NATO ally). Turkey in the last few years have apparently become such a thorn in the eyes of the US that it feels to pressure Turkey with false and baseless BS through their politicians and media. It's crystal clear they want Erdogan to go.
Another important detail is that the US and Turkey's Syria policy has completely come to a different point than some years ago, because it has also become clear what the US is trying to achieve in Syria. Who knows had the 'coup' succeeded and created chaos, PYD/PKK would speed up and link the corridor in Syria while the Turkish army was distracted and disabled by the 'coup' and chaos. As I said in my previous post, the CIA has done a coup in Turkey in 1980 and Iran in 1953. So they have the capacity to do it + US and EU are unhappy with Erdogan + US and EU media is working overtime to produce propaganda against Erdogan and Turkey + US and EU politicians and media have an overly subjective protective stance towards Gulenists + ex-Gulenists claim Gulen had/have links with the cia + Graham Fuller, former cia member and supporter of Gulen, visited Turkey in the morning of 15th july, the day of the 'coup', and left a few days later (coincidence?) = ???
Just connecting the dots and there is a good chance the CIA (or a group within the CIA) directly or indirectly supported the coup.

 

[Serpentine]

I don't know if he has schools in Iran as well. Russia closed down his schools some years back with the reason that there are CIA agents working at his schools. If that is true, It's basically win-win for the US and Gulen. Gulen is even allowed to open schools at US army bases. It's also well known that Gulen gives great donations to Republicans and Democrats. There's more going on.
This article describes them more:

Thank God he doesn't have any schools in Iran. No foreign private schools allowed in Iran.

 

[xenon54 out]

Is this 1980 ? How does what CIA did in 1980 make it responsible for what happened in 2016 ? Clearly there is no evidence available and Erdogan is capitalizing on the anti-US sentiments among the people as is evident from the above argument.

Frankly, I don't see what US stands to gain by executing a coup in Turkey especially at such a crucial time when Syria is unstable and US is trying to mop up all the mess it is involved in. Turkey is a vital ally in middle east, especially to counter Russia and I don't see why US would sacrifice it.

Not saying it was CIA this time, another member was saying it already happened which got labelled as conspiracy theory which is not.

 

[damm1t]

Not saying it was CIA this time, another member was saying it already happened which got labelled as conspiracy theory which is not.

I am saying it. This attemp orchestrated by the Usa's international operations agency CIA. The aim is not a civil war but a new government which serves more US interests as Egypt is doing now.

 

[usernameless]

I completely forgot to mention that Graham Fuller, a former CIA member and supporter of Gulen (also he supported his green card for staying in the US), entered Turkey in the morning of 15th July, the day of the 'coup', and left a few days later. Coincidence?

Furthermore, Ex-Gulenist members claim that the organization was in communication with the CIA.

Adding these to the equation and the CIA becomes a tad more suspicous.

 

[TurkeyForever]

For Indians, It does matter if Turkey is a friend or ally of Pakistan.

What matters is, if Turkey is a friend and ally of India or not. I would like to see Turkey to comeout and support India's NSG membership.



Did you meet most Indians?

Most Indians neither care for Pakistan nor Turkey. They only care about Bollywood...

I like people in India as well as people in Pakistan.

But here is the problem, when I talk to a friend from Pakistan he will say bad things about India and when I talk to a friend from India he will say bad things about Pakistan.

So I am stuck in the middle and since I don't want to lose friendship to either one of you, I need to lightly agree and change the subject.

Pakistan and India should stop hating each other, then it will be much better.

Because as people both Pakistanis and Indians are very intelligent and good people.

I'd personally rather have India/Pakistan union become a super power than USA. Because you people don't think you are better than others.

China I don't want as super power, they are pretty much racist against everyone that doesn't have blue eyes.

China+ Pakistan+Turkey = Russia+India+Iran

Change China with Japan and we have a deal.

I'd rather have it like this =

Japan + India + Pakistan + Turkey + South Korea = China + Russia + Iran

After losing their most important ally in ME in 1979 (Iran), western countries are doing everything they can to push Turkey further towards east. I mean what is wrong with them? Do they really want to see Turkey off their list of allies too? Geo-politically, Turkey is most important western ally in MENA region, more important than KSA, Israel or Egypt. I wonder why they like to push Turkey away. It's hard to digest that over one single old man (Gulen), west is ready to ruin relations with Turkey. Something much bigger than Gulen should be involved.

The only way the west can break up Turkey is if it isn't an ally of the west anymore.

They need some land from Turkey for their plan for the ME.

It might be the big Israel project I keep hearing about =

It is in their bible so don't be surprised if this happens.

If the formation of Israel is possible then anything is possible.

 

[dadeechi]

I like people in India as well as people in Pakistan.

But here is the problem, when I talk to a friend from Pakistan he will say bad things about India and when I talk to a friend from India he will say bad things about Pakistan.

So I am stuck in the middle and since I don't want to lose friendship to either one of you, I need to lightly agree and change the subject.

Pakistan and India should stop hating each other, then it will be much better.

Because as people both Pakistanis and Indians are very intelligent and good people.

I'd personally rather have India/Pakistan union become a super power than USA. Because you people don't think you are better than others.

China I don't want as super power, they are pretty much racist against everyone that doesn't have blue eyes.



Change China with Japan and we have a deal.

I'd rather have it like this =

Japan + India + Pakistan + Turkey + South Korea = China + Russia + Iran



The only way the west can break up Turkey is if it isn't an ally of the west anymore.

They need some land from Turkey for their plan for the ME.

It might be the big Israel project I keep hearing about =

It is in their bible so don't be surprised if this happens.

If the formation of Israel is possible then anything is possible.

India would surely support Turkey on East Turkestan if Turkey supports India on Tibet.

That would be a good start.

 

[Zulkarneyn]

Slowly but surely we are getting self sufficient.
Slowly but steadily our power and influence is growing.
Slowly but steadily we will **** our enemies - including the foreign powers who supported the putsch.
As i always say, time is surely on our side. We just have to be a little more patient.
Have faith in yourselves and in the greatest nation that stood the test of time. We beat the hell out of these imperialist weaklings after losing hundreds of thousands of MEHMETCIK in Canakkale. It's time we showed them what it means to be men again.

 

[TurkeyForever]

India would surely support Turkey on East Turkestan if Turkey supports India on Tibet.

That would be a good start.

That sounds like a good deal.

 

[Bismarck]

That sounds like a good deal.

No, not really.