Let's end this, please

[scorpionx]

lets say a small war
public have no more job
no more water
no more power
no more food supply for 3 years
50000 or 1 lakh lost lives
all major airports and sea ports destroyed
no more trade and travel


can we bear it? nah we can not we just think war will be far away from our home in jungles but in fact it will not as now artillry gun can fire 40 or 60km shells or MBRL can fire 100km rockets .war will be in our cities now .

Not to miss where those bloody European wars were being fought. They already had sophisticated civil societies, strong Industrial bases with looted money from Asian, Far Eastern and African Colonies. It was easy for them to recover whereas we are dirt poor with no solid self supported Industrial base of our own. We have to live in American and Chinese tents, eat donated rice for a millennia if such an war happens here.

 

[saiyan0321]

lets say a small war
public have no more job
no more water
no more power
no more food supply for 3 years
50000 or 1 lakh lost lives
all major airports and sea ports destroyed
no more trade and travel


can we bear it? nah we can not we just think war will be far away from our home in jungles but in fact it will not as now artillry gun can fire 40 or 60km shells or MBRL can fire 100km rockets .war will be in our cities now .

Waisay public is not interested in a war. The war on terror has taken it out of us and people are now more interested in civil rights and social issues. In fact there is a serious wave to focus on internal issues as priority number 1..

Forget everything do you think our government and institutions and army will want to fight a war. Our entire war doctrine is based on holding the enemy till international pressure arrives. @Oscar dropped a very golden pearl once upon a time. "Pakistan army does not seek war but peace as they are only interested in doing real estate in peace" :p :p

 

[Imran Khan]

Not to miss where those bloody European wars were being fought. Already a sophisticated civil society, strong Industrial base with looted money from Asian, Far Eastern and African Colonies. It was easy for them to recover whereas we are dirt poor with no solid self supported Industrial base of our own.

yeah we will loss they damn poor infrastructure which we build in last 72 years . it will took us next 100 years to reach again this point . world will be happy to use us again as cheap labor . its pure reason . i think a great dialogue is need of time . and that should be live on tv . where mature philosophers and thinkers talk

 

[fitpOsitive]

My dear Pakistanis,

Today a colleague of mine sent me a video of a little boy singing in memory of his parents. He thought the little kid is an unfortunate son of an Indian army officer who had been martyred fighting militants in Kashmir and his mother perished in shock after hearing the news. What he did not know, the kid belong to the other side of the border. In this age of Internet, information bits get ridiculously distorted but here, in this case the emotions that reached this side of the border magnified itself to an unbearably heart wrenching level.

Men in uniform are bleeding on your side and our side too. But trust me, now kids of those CRPF martyrs are feeling the same as this little boy of your country. My request to you all is, while you may hate our state policies (while we may do the same to yours), please respect the soldiers. Kashmir agenda has grown to such a monstrously poisonous extent that Indians and Pakistanis are assuming each other no less than a demon. Please lets not forget the humane side of each other and let sanity prevail.

Regards

I respect all soldiers, who died fighting an enemy, they were ordered to fight.
It's not the soldiers who should be blamed, its the guys who sent them there.
In 1971, almost 34000 Pakistani soldiers laid their weapons. Were they all traitors? No. Bhutto with some top notch bureaucrats were responsible for that. Some people wanted to get rid of Bengalis.
But people say: Gen Niazi nain hathyar daaly, no body talks about bhutto( I really want to call him names now, but...).
The real culprits are Modi and Yogi type Netas, who order these soldiers to kill, loot and rape. These guys are just doing their duties.

 

[Imran Khan]

Waisay public is not interested in a war. The war on terror has taken it out of us and people are now more interested in civil rights and social issues. In fact there is a serious wave to focus on internal issues as priority number 1..

Forget everything do you think our government and institutions and army will want to fight a war. Our entire war doctrine is based on holding the enemy till international pressure arrives. @Oscar dropped a very golden pearl once upon a time. "Pakistan army does not seek war but peace as they are only interested in doing real estate in peace" :p :p

yeah some of the Pakistanis learn a lesson of war from WOT but still majority did not face it personally . other hands Indians are fresh they think war is easy . 44 lives loss is huge in peace time but at war time a single projectile can kill as many as 40 solders . they have no brain

 

[Indus Pakistan]

can we bear it?

To be honest war has been like that for long time or what you might total war. Europe practiced this type of war for centuries. The only Muslim nation to have done this is the Ottoman Turks and non European the Japanese. These are wars where the entire or very large % of population pitches in. In UK I am always struck by the fact that there is not a village, not a neighbourhood that does not have a memorial listing names of young men who never came back from wars. My school foyer had a long list of boys who perished in both WWs.

India or Pakistan do not have [thankfully] the constitution for that. Those countries who have fought total wars saw, 100,000 dead, then another 100,000 fresh faces being sent, then they died, the next month another 100,000 went, then they died, then the figure hit 1,000,000 but then another million fresh faces were sent. And then they died. Then another million. Those societies took these sort of losses and still continued. India and Pakistan would have melt down before the figure got to 10,000.

Correction: Iran has also been in a total war and prevailed.

 

[GHALIB]

It's not as simple as you made it out to be...you kafirs have occupied the land of pak musalmans....Islam says fight the kafir until he leaves the land...you only have two options kafir...either leave the land of momeens or bleed eternally..because muslims are not afraid of death..they love to embrace death in the cause of Allah..Muslims don't love this life as much as you kafirs do.

Pak musalman ...

 

[Imran Khan]

To be honest war has been like that for long time or what you might total war. Europe practiced this type of war for centuries. The only Muslim nation to have done this is the Ottoman Turks and non European the Japanese. These are wars where the entire or very large % of population pitches in. In UK I am always struck by the fact that there is not a village, not a neighbourhood that does not have a memorial listing names of young men who never came back from wars. My school foyer had a long list of boys who perished in both WWs.

India or Pakistan do not have [thankfully] the constitution for that. Those countries who have fought total wars saw, 100,000 dead, then another 100,000 fresh faces being sent, then they died, the next month another 100,000 went, then they died, then the figure hit 1,000,000 but then another million fresh faces were sent. And then they died. Then another million. Those societies took these sort of losses and still continued. India and Pakistan would have melt down before the figure got to 10,000.

Correction: Iran has also been in a total war and prevailed.

good example is 44 solders loss the lives and nation is boiling what they will do if 44000 dead ? they will become gandhi ji . we pakistanis loss APS students some 150 and turned the table with taliban can we face deaths ? i am sure these emotions will go away with in one month

 

[padamchen]

To be honest war has been like that for long time or what you might total war. Europe practiced this type of war for centuries. The only Muslim nation to have done this is the Ottoman Turks and non European the Japanese. These are wars where the entire or very large % of population pitches in. In UK I am always struck by the fact that there is not a village, not a neighbourhood that does not have a memorial listing names of young men who never came back from wars. My school foyer had a long list of boys who perished in both WWs.

India or Pakistan do not have [thankfully] the constitution for that. Those countries who have fought total wars saw, 100,000 dead, then another 100,000 fresh faces being sent, then they died, the next month another 100,000 went, then they died, then the figure hit 1,000,000 but then another million fresh faces were sent. And then they died. Then another million. Those societies took these sort of losses and still continued. India and Pakistan would have melt down before the figure got to 10,000.

Correction: Iran has also been in a total war and prevailed.

I am very interested in knowing how these countries managed to right what must have been a HUGE gender gap when peace finally came. Did it ever right? How many generations did it take?

Cheers, Doc

 

[FuturePAF]

Indians are at a loss of how to deal with Kashmir. This incident, if it is to be believed, was carried out by a local Kashmiri youth. Standard politics will not solve this impasse. The years of Indian Hindu radicalization and Hindu supremacist language and actions will have a blow-back in a country that is suppose to uphold secularism and equality before the law.

Indians have lost the hearts and minds of Kashmiri youths. They don't see a future with India. If India is brave enough to try to win back the people of Kashmir through a truth and reconciliation process it may have a chance to return to some form of peace and rebuild some trust with the people there.

But if it doesn't want to face the hard truth, it should be prepared to cut its losses. Kashmir is weighing them down from their developmental aspirations. No other nation is basing nearly a million solders to occupy a region it wants the inhabitants to feel are equal citizens. After all the years of abuse its surprising the Indians are surprised the Kashmiris feel the way they do.

In an interview today on Indian TV; Kashmir leader Farook Abdulah says "You will never trust us because we are Muslims": "Start to trust Muslims or else the consequences will be bad".

On a Civilization level, Hindu Indians have lived with Muslims for over a thousand years, under different forms of governments. Originally after partition the border was suppose to be a free flowing border, but the ego of both sides has lead us to today. When the Princely states (like Hyderabad) with Muslim rulers wanted to join Pakistan, India swallowed them up. India doesn't live up to the Ideals it espouses and the people are revolting. Even the pro-Indian Kashmiris don't feel hopeful.

While Indians are stuck in their stubborn form of thinking, trying to pin the blame on Pakistan, hoping to isolate Pakistan, Pakistan just signed $20 billion in deals with Saudi Arabia.

 

[scorpionx]

Indians are at a loss of how to deal with Kashmir. This incident, if it is to be believed, was carried out by a local Kashmiri youth. Standard politics will not solve this impasse. The years of Indian Hindu radicalization and Hindu supremacist language and actions will have a blow-back in a country that is suppose to uphold secularism and equality before the law.

Indians have lost the hearts and minds of Kashmiri youths. They don't see a future with India. If India is brave enough to try to win back the people of Kashmir through a truth and reconciliation process it may have a chance to return to some form of peace and rebuild some trust with the people there.

But if it doesn't want to face the hard truth, it should be prepared to cut its losses. Kashmir is weighing them down from their developmental aspirations. No other nation is basing nearly a million solders to occupy a region it wants the inhabitants to feel are equal citizens. After all the years of abuse its surprising the Indians are surprised the Kashmiris feel the way they do.

In an interview today on Indian TV; Kashmir leader Farook Abdulah says "You will never trust us because we are Muslims": "Start to trust Muslims or else the consequences will be bad".

On a Civilization level, Hindu Indians have lived with Muslims for over a thousand years, under different forms of governments. Originally after partition the border was suppose to be a free flowing border, but the ego of both sides has lead us to today. When the Princely states (like Hyderabad) with Muslim rulers wanted to join Pakistan, India swallowed them up. India doesn't live up to the Ideals it espouses and the people are revolting. Even the pro-Indian Kashmiris don't feel hopeful.

While Indians are stuck in their stubborn form of thinking, trying to pin the blame on Pakistan, hoping to isolate Pakistan, Pakistan just signed $20 billion in deals with Saudi Arabia.

Except the Princely state part (which of course leaves ample scope to debate but not here), you are cruelly true..

 

[Valar.]

I am sure you sir, are being sarcastic.

No, I'm not.

We tried doing that already, some 4 times. No solution yet for Kashmir.

We need a final one - the deadliest. It will solve the issue once and for all.

Plus, it's good for population reduction, something that both of us desperately need

 

[MultaniGuy]

Bangladesh was also not part of partition . nothing is permanent . enough of this blood bath today indians are crying tomorrow we will cry then indians will cry its never ending madness . kashmir should be free country once forever .

Actually East Pakistan was part of the partition plan. Where are you getting your information from?
Bengal was partitioned

 

[FuturePAF]

Except the Princely state part (which of course leaves ample scope to debate but not here), you are cruelly true..

Thanks for you reply. India's modern founders always claimed it could be a secular nation, and in the early days they won over most of the the world.

There seems to be a supreme breakdown in confidence in the Indian psyche over the last few decades, and they have turned their backs on the meritocratic nation they originally set out to be. Small men and women with selfish impulses pulled the nation this way and that, and now its years of giving in to demagoguery have lead to a civilization the world flocked to in seek of enlightenment turning into just another autocratic oligarchy.

The breakdown seen in the video above, for example, shows the reporters don't go down the reasonable demands of the person being interviewed. These reporters go back to talking points and feel good sound bites. Deep thought doesn't seem to be appreciated anymore.

A solution both India and Pakistan could begrudgingly live with would be an independent Kashmir with the following borders.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/nol/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/img/maps/kashmir_4_350.gif
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/spl/hi/south_asia/03/kashmir_future/html/5.stm

A few Muslim majority areas of Jammu like Poonch would have to be added in, but something close to this map.
A map reflecting the green areas in the following map on the Indian side would be more long lasting for sustainable peace, along with the areas designated as Azad Kashmir in Pakistan.
http://kashmirstudygroup.com/images/maps_images/Fig5_v6.jpg

Both sides would also seek to extend the terms of their treaties to the new state, and seek free trade via the new state. India and Pakistan would also seek to have their respective populations able to visit religious sites in all three nations.

The rest of the border could be demilitarized and turned into an international border (with a buffer region of at least a few kilometers) and money could be focused on economic development.

 

[Imran Khan]

Actually East Pakistan was part of the partition plan. Where are you getting your information from?
Bengal was partitioned

خرد کا نام جنوں پڑ گیا جنوں کا خرد

جو چاہے آپ کا حسن کرشمہ ساز کرے

i said breaking of pakistan and creation of bangladesh not east punjab or east bengal