LCA taking off with Missles/drop tanks/loaded

[Iggy]

Kaveri was supposed to be scraped as a failed project.

Hence india will annouce by mid 2010 a winner out of F4114 general electric or EJ200 eurojet fro Germany as a supplier for 99 engines for mk2 tejas.

In the mean time snemca of rance which has M88 engine powering rafael was suppose to build a GTRE engine for india using TOT. But this too is stagnating as france will not provide 100% TOT.

Look s no indengious engine for mk2 LCA ever

No man let them work on it..India can afford some failures now..but if Kaveri become a sucess then we are self reliant in Engine technology ..it will be an important milestone for us ..

 

[Conqueror]

Hay nice pics. I specially like the one taken from human eye level.

Can somebody tell me how is Tejas a 4.5 Gen fighter plane? Not to offend you guys but just to understand what is special about Tejas that makes it 4 and then 4.5 Gen fighter plane? Even with the help of China, we are only able to make 4 Gen fighter.. or perhaps it is not even 4th Gen to many Indian counterparts over here. Whats the fact on ground?

 

[RPK]

^^^

 

[Speeder]

I hate to spoil the euphoria here , but I notice this article on LCA recently written by Indians:


LCA India’s soaring ambition and the sobering reality


India initiated the Light Combat Aircraft program in 1983 to indigenously develop a multi-mission single seat tactical aircraft. As of 2009 it is yet to complete development and there seems to be no firm date when it will be inducted in the Indian air force. Different sources claim that the date may vary between 2010 and 2015. This has been one of the most expensive and painfully slow defence projects that India has ever undertaken.

Any mention of LCA evokes extreme reactions in India. There is one group which support it’s further development and another group which are of the opinion that LCA project has failed to deliver and hence should be scrapped. Like most things in life the truth probably lies somewhere in between. To properly evaluate the success or failure of LCA we need to understand it’s genesis, the doctrine it was based on and the larger strategic goals that this programme was supposed to achieve.



LCA genesis

LCA programme was launched in 1983 by defence minister Shri. R. Venkataraman (4 December 1910 – 27 January 2009). There were two primary goals for the LCA programme:

The obvious reason was to replace the large number of 60s vintage Mig-21 fighters from the IAF.
Large scale modernisation and up gradation of India’s nascent aerospace industry.
By 1980s Mig-21 in IAF were already more than two decades old and rather obsolete. These were no longer the fearsome fighting machines that they were during the Vietnam war. IAF needed a replacement for these planes urgently and at a reasonable cost. An indigenously developed advanced aircraft could meet the requirements of IAF, while improving the overall technological base of Indian aerospace industry.

LCA Timeline

1983 – DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft
1984 – Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1984 as the nodal agency for managing and developing the LCA.
1985 – IAF submits Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985. This was initiated by the then Air Chief Marshal Idris Hassan Latif.
1986 – Programme to develop an indigenous powerplant (engine) was launched at GTRE.
1987 – Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault Aviation as consultants.
1988 – Project definition completed in September 1988.
1989 – Government review committee expresses confidence in LCA programme. It was decided that the programme will be carried out in two phases.
1990 – Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged reverse static stability aircraft.
1990 – Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems in India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993 – Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995 – First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997 – Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.
2001 – LCA’s maiden flight successfully completed by Technology Demonstrator TD-1 , on 4th Jan, 2001. Prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee renames LCA as Tejas.
2002 – MMR system was reported to be not working as per the criteria laid down in requirements.
2003 – First supersonic flight of Tejas on 1st August, 2003.
2008 – It was reported in September 2008 that Kaveri engine would not be ready in time for Tejas. RFP for in-production engines floated by ADA. the Eurojet EJ200 and the General Electric F414 are the main contenders.
2009 – Tejas completed 1000 flights on 23 Jan 2009.


Tejas (LCA) programme notable success

There is no doubt that the LCA programme made great contributions to the Indian aerospace industry. Some of the technologies developed have been mastered by very few countries. For example, Carbon Fiber Composite for wings and fins, Flight control systems, Design of Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) etc. All these technologies can now be implemented indigenously without any foreign assistance. These will save a lot of time and effort in any future development. Needless to say very few countries can boast of such wide array of aerospace technologies. It should a matter of pride that DRDO developed these technologies with restricted budget with little or no less assistance. It must also be noted that India of 1980s and 90s was considered an untouchable state by the west. Technology denial and sanctions were a fact of life for India. That DRDO was able to develop such advanced technologies with so much restrictions is indeed a cause of great pride among Indians. It must be noted that LCA development did NOT start in 1983 as many critics point out. Almost a decade was used to set up the building blocks of Aerospace laboratories and industries which were virtually non-existent in India. Also, it must be noted that India had no prior experience in building a modern jet fighter. It is no less than a miracle that India has managed to build a 4+ generation fighter plane from scratch and under severe constraints and technology sanctions.

Tejas (LCA) programme notable failures

While there have been successes we cannot hide the fact that LCA programme has had it’s fair share of failures. In fact most of the times it is in news is because of it’s lack of progress and problems. The most
important cause of concern is the inordinate delay of 25 years in the development programme. Apart from that inability to develop a good powerplant, MMR, overweight undercarriage etc are it’s main flaws..

Thus main reasons for this delay can be attibuted to various factors including:

Lack of political will and direction for the project.

Low level of infrastructure and industrial base for developing such complex system in India.

Technical sanctions and embargoes against India by various governments.

Overall poor programme management and execution by the various government run PSUs.


Tejas can then be compared as a half empty or half full glass depending on individual’s perception. So in all fairness Tejas has been a long saga of vision, ambition, triumph and failure all mixed with each other. Tejas has brutally exposed the reality of India’s state of aerospace and other hi tech industries. It has again and again reminded that India after all is a developing country struggling to meet the growth challenges with technical prowess. However, it has also brought to light the resilience of India’s technical mind which will keep India in good stead in the times to come.

source -- LCA India’s soaring ambition and the sobering reality Indian defence

 

[Iggy]

I hate to spoil the euphoria here , but I notice this article on LCA recently written by Indians:


LCA India’s soaring ambition and the sobering reality


India initiated the Light Combat Aircraft program in 1983 to indigenously develop a multi-mission single seat tactical aircraft. As of 2009 it is yet to complete development and there seems to be no firm date when it will be inducted in the Indian air force. Different sources claim that the date may vary between 2010 and 2015. This has been one of the most expensive and painfully slow defence projects that India has ever undertaken.

Any mention of LCA evokes extreme reactions in India. There is one group which support it’s further development and another group which are of the opinion that LCA project has failed to deliver and hence should be scrapped. Like most things in life the truth probably lies somewhere in between. To properly evaluate the success or failure of LCA we need to understand it’s genesis, the doctrine it was based on and the larger strategic goals that this programme was supposed to achieve.



LCA genesis

LCA programme was launched in 1983 by defence minister Shri. R. Venkataraman (4 December 1910 – 27 January 2009). There were two primary goals for the LCA programme:

The obvious reason was to replace the large number of 60s vintage Mig-21 fighters from the IAF.
Large scale modernisation and up gradation of India’s nascent aerospace industry.
By 1980s Mig-21 in IAF were already more than two decades old and rather obsolete. These were no longer the fearsome fighting machines that they were during the Vietnam war. IAF needed a replacement for these planes urgently and at a reasonable cost. An indigenously developed advanced aircraft could meet the requirements of IAF, while improving the overall technological base of Indian aerospace industry.

LCA Timeline

1983 – DRDO obtained permission to initiate a programme to design and develop a Light Combat Aircraft
1984 – Government of India set up Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA) in 1984 as the nodal agency for managing and developing the LCA.
1985 – IAF submits Air Staff Requirements (ASR) for LCA in October 1985. This was initiated by the then Air Chief Marshal Idris Hassan Latif.
1986 – Programme to develop an indigenous powerplant (engine) was launched at GTRE.
1987 – Project definition commenced in October 1987 with French Dassault Aviation as consultants.
1988 – Project definition completed in September 1988.
1989 – Government review committee expresses confidence in LCA programme. It was decided that the programme will be carried out in two phases.
1990 – Design of LCA was finalised as a small delta winged reverse static stability aircraft.
1990 – Phase 1 of the development was commenced to create the proof of concept system. Financial problems in India prevented full scale operations from starting.
1993 – Full funding started from April 1993 full-scale development work for phase 1 started in June.
1995 – First technology demonstrator, TD-1, rolled out on 17 November 1995 and was followed by TD-2 in 1998. However, technical problems in flight control systems and structural deficiencies plagued the prototypes and they remained grounded.
1997 – Multi-Mode Radar (MMR) for LCA design work started at HAL’s Hyderabad division and the LRDE.
2001 – LCA’s maiden flight successfully completed by Technology Demonstrator TD-1 , on 4th Jan, 2001. Prime minister Atal Bihari Vajpayee renames LCA as Tejas.
2002 – MMR system was reported to be not working as per the criteria laid down in requirements.
2003 – First supersonic flight of Tejas on 1st August, 2003.
2008 – It was reported in September 2008 that Kaveri engine would not be ready in time for Tejas. RFP for in-production engines floated by ADA. the Eurojet EJ200 and the General Electric F414 are the main contenders.
2009 – Tejas completed 1000 flights on 23 Jan 2009.


Tejas (LCA) programme notable success

There is no doubt that the LCA programme made great contributions to the Indian aerospace industry. Some of the technologies developed have been mastered by very few countries. For example, Carbon Fiber Composite for wings and fins, Flight control systems, Design of Full Authority Digital Engine Control (FADEC) etc. All these technologies can now be implemented indigenously without any foreign assistance. These will save a lot of time and effort in any future development. Needless to say very few countries can boast of such wide array of aerospace technologies. It should a matter of pride that DRDO developed these technologies with restricted budget with little or no less assistance. It must also be noted that India of 1980s and 90s was considered an untouchable state by the west. Technology denial and sanctions were a fact of life for India. That DRDO was able to develop such advanced technologies with so much restrictions is indeed a cause of great pride among Indians. It must be noted that LCA development did NOT start in 1983 as many critics point out. Almost a decade was used to set up the building blocks of Aerospace laboratories and industries which were virtually non-existent in India. Also, it must be noted that India had no prior experience in building a modern jet fighter. It is no less than a miracle that India has managed to build a 4+ generation fighter plane from scratch and under severe constraints and technology sanctions.

Tejas (LCA) programme notable failures

While there have been successes we cannot hide the fact that LCA programme has had it’s fair share of failures. In fact most of the times it is in news is because of it’s lack of progress and problems. The most
important cause of concern is the inordinate delay of 25 years in the development programme. Apart from that inability to develop a good powerplant, MMR, overweight undercarriage etc are it’s main flaws..

Thus main reasons for this delay can be attibuted to various factors including:

Lack of political will and direction for the project.

Low level of infrastructure and industrial base for developing such complex system in India.

Technical sanctions and embargoes against India by various governments.

Overall poor programme management and execution by the various government run PSUs.


Tejas can then be compared as a half empty or half full glass depending on individual’s perception. So in all fairness Tejas has been a long saga of vision, ambition, triumph and failure all mixed with each other. Tejas has brutally exposed the reality of India’s state of aerospace and other hi tech industries. It has again and again reminded that India after all is a developing country struggling to meet the growth challenges with technical prowess. However, it has also brought to light the resilience of India’s technical mind which will keep India in good stead in the times to come.

source -- LCA India’s soaring ambition and the sobering reality Indian defence

Its all well known to Indians ..but please take a look at the colored part

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

Thanks for kind assistance Mr Sieko .... I hope he will understand now .. I have noticed he's (speeder) so keen to prove DRDO failers but fail to realize the achivements we made in limited resources .....

 

[Iggy]

Thanks for kind assistance Mr Sieko .... I hope he will understand now .. I have noticed he's (speeder) so keen to prove DRDO failers but fail to realize the achivements we made in limited resources .....

I dont think he and his countrymen will never understand..its easy to wake some one who is sleeping but its hard to wake up some one who is pretend to be sleeping

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

Hay nice pics. I specially like the one taken from human eye level.

Can somebody tell me how is Tejas a 4.5 Gen fighter plane? Not to offend you guys but just to understand what is special about Tejas that makes it 4 and then 4.5 Gen fighter plane? Even with the help of China, we are only able to make 4 Gen fighter.. or perhaps it is not even 4th Gen to many Indian counterparts over here. Whats the fact on ground?

Sir please read Mr Seiko post # 32 intently ... He answer your questions perfectly and I hope you understand now the difference between R&D and reverse engineering......

 

[Conqueror]

It needs a lot of courage and trust on one's muscles to accept failure. I am not in love with India but I would not trash their effort they made and built an aircraft which is comparable to our joint development with China. They did a good job and although they took extra time and may be its below their expected benchmarks, they have gained the infrastructure that will be ground for the future projects.

As a student, I am still wondering what is the quality that makes Tejas it a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Its not a pinching pin my friends, I'm only asking to enlighten myself. I am also bit skeptical about the fact that an aircraft which to some critics is a failure and success to some for others stands at 4.5 Gen.

 

[AnGrz_Z_K_Jailer]

It needs a lot of courage and trust on one's muscles to accept failure. I am not in love with India but I would not trash their effort they made and built an aircraft which is comparable to our joint development with China. They did a good job and although they took extra time and may be its below their expected benchmarks, they have gained the infrastructure that will be ground for the future projects.

As a student, I am still wondering what is the quality that makes Tejas it a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Its not a pinching pin my friends, I'm only asking to enlighten myself. I am also bit skeptical about the fact that an aircraft which to some critics is a failure and success to some for others stands at 4.5 Gen.

Again .... Read Mr Sieko post # 37

 

[Iggy]

It needs a lot of courage and trust on one's muscles to accept failure. I am not in love with India but I would not trash their effort they made and built an aircraft which is comparable to our joint development with China. They did a good job and although they took extra time and may be its below their expected benchmarks, they have gained the infrastructure that will be ground for the future projects.

As a student, I am still wondering what is the quality that makes Tejas it a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Its not a pinching pin my friends, I'm only asking to enlighten myself. I am also bit skeptical about the fact that an aircraft which to some critics is a failure and success to some for others stands at 4.5 Gen.

Conqueror I know you are not pinching pin..but I am some one who has more knowledge about LCA will sure answer you..wait till tomorrow ..Its sad that people is afraid to ask doubts because they think others will take it as trolling

 

[RPK]

It needs a lot of courage and trust on one's muscles to accept failure. I am not in love with India but I would not trash their effort they made and built an aircraft which is comparable to our joint development with China. They did a good job and although they took extra time and may be its below their expected benchmarks, they have gained the infrastructure that will be ground for the future projects.

As a student, I am still wondering what is the quality that makes Tejas it a 4.5 Gen aircraft. Its not a pinching pin my friends, I'm only asking to enlighten myself. I am also bit skeptical about the fact that an aircraft which to some critics is a failure and success to some for others stands at 4.5 Gen.

The primary characteristics of this 4.5th generation fighters are the application of advanced digital avionics and aerospace materials, modest signature reduction (primarily RF "stealth"), and highly integrated systems and weapons. These fighters have been designed to operate in a "network-centric" battlefield environment and are principally multirole aircraft. Key weapons technologies introduced include beyond-visual-range (BVR) AAMs; Global Positioning System (GPS)-guided weapons, solid-state phased-array radars; helmet-mounted sights; and improved secure, jamming-resistant datalinks. Thrust vectoring to further improve transient maneuvering capabilities have also been adopted by many 4.5th generation fighters, and uprated powerplants have enabled some designs to achieve a degree of "supercruise" ability. Stealth characteristics are focused primarily on frontal-aspect radar cross section (RCS) signature-reduction techniques including radar-absorbent materials (RAM), L-O coatings and limited shaping techniques.


also see my above pic

 

[Honor]

The primary characteristics of this 4.5th generation fighters are the application of advanced digital avionics and aerospace materials, modest signature reduction (primarily RF "stealth"), and highly integrated systems and weapons. These fighters have been designed to operate in a "network-centric" battlefield environment and are principally multirole aircraft. Key weapons technologies introduced include beyond-visual-range (BVR) AAMs; Global Positioning System (GPS)-guided weapons, solid-state phased-array radars; helmet-mounted sights; and improved secure, jamming-resistant datalinks. Thrust vectoring to further improve transient maneuvering capabilities have also been adopted by many 4.5th generation fighters, and uprated powerplants have enabled some designs to achieve a degree of "supercruise" ability. Stealth characteristics are focused primarily on frontal-aspect radar cross section (RCS) signature-reduction techniques including radar-absorbent materials (RAM), L-O coatings and limited shaping techniques.


also see my above pic

Thanks for the information given.

I maybe wrong but judging by the appearance of this plane i doubt it had this capabilities. It really look low tech to me!

 

[beckham]

PV1 aircraft seen with two AAMs and two drop tanks.

Prototype Vehicle dropping a 1000lb bomb.

 

[Dark Angel]

The Tejas design has been configured to match the demands of modern combat scenario such as speed, acceleration, maneuverability and agility. Short takeoff and landing, excellent flight performance, safety, reliability and maintainability, are salient features of Tejas design. The Tejas integrates modern design concepts like static instability, digital fly-by-wire flight control system, integrated avionics, glass cockpit, primary composite structure, multi-mode radar, microprocessor based utility and brake management systems

The avionics system enhances the role of Light Combat Aircraft as an effective weapon platform. The glass cockpit and hands on throttle and stick (HOTAS) controls reduce pilot workload. Accurate navigation and weapon aiming information on the head up display helps the pilot achieve his mission effectively. The multifunction displays provide information on engine, hydraulics, electrical, flight control and environmental control system on a need-to-know basis along with basic flight and tactical information. Dual redundant display processors (DP) generate computer-generated imagery on these displays. The pilot interacts with the complex avionics systems through a simple multifunction keyboard, and function and sensor selection panels. A state-of-the-art multi-mode radar (MMR), laser designator pod (LDP), forward looking infra-red (FLIR) and other opto-electronic sensors provide accurate target information to enhance kill probabilities

The digital FBW system of the Tejas is built around a quadruplex redundant architecture to give it a fail op-fail op-fail safe capability. It employs a powerful digital flight control computer (DFCC) comprising four computing channels, each powered by an independent power supply and all housed in a single line replaceable unit (LRU).